Question about grammar

Shiruyumi · 13 Jan 2014

Hey guys, new to forum. So I'm trying to learn Japanese, and one thing I'm trying to do as practical reading practice is reading the bible in Japanese (with furigana). However, I'm a bit stuck on the first verse. The verse is: はじめに神は天と地とを創造された。My confusion is in the object part of the sentence, where it puts と after both of the nouns. From what I've learned about using と as "and", there should only be one. Is anyone able to explain this to me? Thanks!

Morphling · 13 Jan 2014

Particles follows the word they are modifying. と means and but it's not like English where and can only join a word before and a word after. It can also function to indicate and for the word before it just like a regular particle.

There can be as many とs as you want.

Shiruyumi · 13 Jan 2014

Okay, so you can use と after every word in the list then? Now, is it necessary to do so after the last one? I was confused because all the examples I saw only had it between words.

Thanks.

Morphling · 13 Jan 2014

It's optional for the last one but sometimes used for clarity.

Toritoribe · 13 Jan 2014

Shiruyumi said:
Hey guys, new to forum. So I'm trying to learn Japanese, and one thing I'm trying to do as practical reading practice is reading the bible in Japanese (with furigana). However, I'm a bit stuck on the first verse. The verse is: はじめに神は天と地とを創造された。My confusion is in the object part of the sentence, where it puts と after both of the nouns. From what I've learned about using と as "and", there should only be one. Is anyone able to explain this to me? Thanks!

と
［並助］いくつかの事柄を列挙する意を表す。「君―ぼく―の仲」
「幸ひの、なき―ある―は」〈源・玉鬘〉

[補説]並立する語ごとに「と」を用いるのが本来の用法であるが、現代語ではいちばんあとにくる「と」を省略するのが普通となっている。

と［格助接助並助］の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

As in the dictionary I quoted above, と is originally attached after every word when listing them, but it's common to omit the last one in Modern Japanese. Therefore that sentence in the bible sounds somewhat classical. (And that's the translator's aim.)

Majestic · 13 Jan 2014

Shiruyumi said:
Hey guys, new to forum. So I'm trying to learn Japanese, and one thing I'm trying to do as practical reading practice is reading the bible in Japanese (with furigana).

Hello Shiruyumi
I think you'll find the Bible is a bit heavy with vocabulary and phrases which are not very practical for modern, day-to-day Japanese. Could you perhaps choose another, lighter book that doesn't use liturgical King James English as a source? (Don't want to discourage you if you are indeed determined to use the Bible, but it seems a very daunting project to me).

There is another reader on this forum who is studying using Harry Potter, and I often think that this person has chosen something more challenging than is necessary. But compared to the Bible, Harry Potter is probably pretty easy going.

Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. Good luck in your study, whatever route you choose.

Shiruyumi · 14 Jan 2014

Majestic said:
Hello Shiruyumi
I think you'll find the Bible is a bit heavy with vocabulary and phrases which are not very practical for modern, day-to-day Japanese. Could you perhaps choose another, lighter book that doesn't use liturgical King James English as a source? (Don't want to discourage you if you are indeed determined to use the Bible, but it seems a very daunting project to me).
There is another reader on this forum who is studying using Harry Potter, and I often think that this person has chosen something more challenging than is necessary. But compared to the Bible, Harry Potter is probably pretty easy going.
Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. Good luck in your study, whatever route you choose.

Yeah, it's probably not the easiest thing to practice with. Part of the draw of it for me is just that I've already got easy access to it written in Japanese, particularly as an app for my tablet. I'm all ears for suggestions, I just really could use something written in Japanese with furigana so that I can get used to both the kanji for words and how to read them.

letslearn · 14 Jan 2014

If you look up NHK news easy. It has short news reports with furigana.

Morphling · 14 Jan 2014

You can also try Japanese kindle books from amazon.co.jp

Question about grammar

Shiruyumi

後輩

Morphling

先輩

Shiruyumi

後輩

Morphling

先輩

Toritoribe

松葉解禁

Majestic

先輩

Shiruyumi

後輩

letslearn

先輩

Morphling

先輩

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