Please check my understanding of this adjectival phrase

letslearn · 26 Nov 2014

こんにちは皆さん、
I have a sentence from a book and I would appreciate if someone would let me know if my understanding is correct. I have not seen the construct AのBの so I am guessing that it's between or around..
The sentence reads.
岩手の山口の里にたいそうな屋敷をかまえる旧家があった。
In the country between/around iwate and yamguchi prefectures stood a fine Mansion built by an old family.

The phrase たいそうな屋敷をかまえる旧家が I read as..... fine Mansion built by an old family.
I wasn't sure if it was decribing the family i.e An old family that built a fine mansion. or A fine Mansion built by an old family. But becuase the sentence ends in あった, not いった, i think it is A fine Mansion built by an old family.
よろしくお願いします

Toritoribe · 26 Nov 2014

山口の里 refers to a region in Iwate Prefecture, not Yamaguchi Prefecture.
たいそうな屋敷をかまえる旧家 ONLY means "an old family who lived in a fine mansion". "A fine Mansion built by an old family" MUST be 旧家がかまえるたいそうな屋敷.
The past form of いる is いた, not いった, btw.

letslearn · 26 Nov 2014

Toritoribe said:
山口の里 refers to a region in Iwate Prefecture, not Yamaguchi Prefecture.
たいそうな屋敷をかまえる旧家 ONLY means "an old family who lived in a fine mansion". "A fine Mansion built by an old family" MUST be 旧家がかまえるたいそうな屋敷.
The past form of いる is いた, not いった, btw.

I see what your saying, but I'm not sure how たいそうな屋敷をかまえる旧家 becomes lived in a fine mansion?

Toritoribe · 26 Nov 2014

屋敷をかまえる means その屋敷に住んでいる. "To build" is not wrong, of course.

letslearn · 26 Nov 2014

Toritoribe said:
屋敷をかまえる means その屋敷に住んでいる. "To build" is not wrong, of course.

So is 屋敷をかまえる a set phrase, like むかしむかし is similar to "once apon a time"?

Mike Cash · 26 Nov 2014

Did you look up the meaning(s) of 構える ?

letslearn · 26 Nov 2014

Mike Cash said:
Did you look up the meaning(s) of 構える ?

Yes. At かまえる【構える】の英語・英訳 - 和英辞書 - goo辞書
The closest thing I can see is established a home. Which I suppose is in the same ball park.

Mike Cash · 26 Nov 2014

letslearn said:
Yes. At かまえる【構える】の英語・英訳 - 和英辞書 - goo辞書
The closest thing I can see is established a home. Which I suppose is in the same ball park.

Maybe this will help:

Morphling · 26 Nov 2014

Mike Cash said:
Maybe this will help:

I've checked a lot of dictionaries and nope this one is a Japanese special. The definition is to build but as toritoribe San has alluded to, it can mean to live but it's not in the dictionary as a definition. Merely as an example sentence that seems jarring to the rest.

This is from 小学館日中辞典 which captures this ridiculousness.

かまえる【構える】
1｟築き上げる｠修建xiūjiàn,修築xiūzhù．

¶新居を〜
建築新住宅。 makes sense...

¶彼は堂々たる邸宅をかまえている。
他住在一所豪宅háozhái里。unmm....

So the Japanese sentence uses かまえる and the Chinese translation uses 住. So I'm just gonna treat this as a set phrase...

letslearn · 26 Nov 2014

Mike Cash said:
Maybe this will help:

View attachment 17416
View attachment 17417

Ahh, set up a home/residence!
There once was an old family who lived in a mansion located at Yamaguchi village within Iwate prefecture.

Mike Cash · 26 Nov 2014

letslearn said:
Ahh, set up a home/residence!
There once was an old family who lived in a mansion located at Yamaguchi village within Iwate prefecture.

On a slight tangent, in my line a common vocab item is 構内, referring to the enclosed grounds/premises of an establishment (factory, warehouse, etc) and often seen in compounds such as 校内禁煙、構内一方通行、構内速度.

I would treat 構える more as meaning to take up or establish a position...sort of in an abstract sense rather than in a concrete sense of physically constructing something.

letslearn · 27 Nov 2014

I have seen that construction in my field as well in technical publications. Namely 構内電話交換機 as in a PABX , or office telephone systems. In this case with in branch/office.

Mike Cash · 27 Nov 2014

Do you get a little better sense of 構える now?

letslearn · 27 Nov 2014

Mike Cash said:
On a slight tangent, in my line a common vocab item is 構内, referring to the enclosed grounds/premises of an establishment (factory, warehouse, etc) and often seen in compounds such as 校内禁煙、構内一方通行、構内速度.

I would treat 構える more as meaning to take up or establish a position...sort of in an abstract sense rather than in a concrete sense of physically constructing something.

Mike Cash said:
Do you get a little better sense of 構える now?

Yes its clearer, but I think a lot more understanding will come from more exposure, especially more abstract concepts.
Thanks all to your help and patience.

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