please check my attempt at describing a temple

letslearn · 18 Dec 2015

Hi guys,
I am trying to describe the building of the soufukuji temple in Nagasaki.
what i'm trying to say in English is the following.

that temple was built in the oubakuzen style.
It was built by chinese priests in 1629.

そのお寺はおうばくぜん様式で作りました。
1629年中国人のお坊さんに建立されました。

have i used thē right verb and conjunctions?
よろしくお願いします

Mike Cash · 19 Dec 2015

Why did you translate the same passive voice verb into one active voice and one passive voice?

letslearn · 19 Dec 2015

Mike Cash said:
Why did you translate the same passive voice verb into one active voice and one passive voice?

Because I didn't think I needed to when I'm just talking about the style of construction.
Would it have been better to just to state it.
そのお寺の様式はおうばくぜんです。

Mike Cash · 19 Dec 2015

letslearn said:
Because I didn't think I needed to when I'm just talking about the style of construction.
Would it have been better to just to state it.
そのお寺の様式はおうばくぜんです。

Are you really clear on the difference between active and passive voice?

If passive isn't needed in Japanese when you're just talking about the style, why was it needed in English when you're talking about the exact same thing?

The questions are to prompt some analysis and introspection on it and help you arrive at some insight on it yourself, not to badger you.

letslearn · 19 Dec 2015

Mike Cash said:
Are you really clear on the difference between active and passive voice?

If passive isn't needed in Japanese when you're just talking about the style, why was it needed in English when you're talking about the exact same thing?

The questions are to prompt some analysis and introspection on it and help you arrive at some insight on it yourself, not to badger you.

No I'm not feeling badgered.
I some times get confused with the passive when the agent is not mentioned in the sentence. I see what you mean because in English we say "was built" with out mentioning who.
そのお寺はおうばくぜん様式で作られました。

mdchachi · 19 Dec 2015

I'd probably combine the two sentences since "made" and "built" are pretty much equivalent here.

そのお寺はおうばくぜん様式で
1629年に中国のお坊さんに建立されました。

I'd also put a に after the year and remove the 人.

Mike Cash · 19 Dec 2015

mdchachi said:
I'd probably combine the two sentences since "made" and "built" are pretty much equivalent here.

そのお寺はおうばくぜん様式で
1629年に中国のお坊さんに建立されました。

I'd also put a に after the year and remove the 人.

But is it a priest from a Chinese temple or a priest from a Japanese temple who just happens to be Chinese?

letslearn · 19 Dec 2015

Mike Cash said:
But is it a priest from a Chinese temple or a priest from a Japanese temple who just happens to be Chinese?

I believe it is built by Chinese priests

letslearn · 20 Dec 2015

Thank you for your help mdchachisan And mikesan.
I should have mentioned that it was part of a class presentation, so I'm sorry for not mentioning it. I have been trying to practice the passive form so I used it quite a bit in this presentation.
If your interested the rest of the paragraph I wrote about the temple is....

もっとも面白いものは巨大な大鍋です。
1681年にたいへんな飢饉が起こりました。お坊さんは約3000人にお粥を食べさせました。彼らの活動で多くの人々が助けられました。

ご馳走様でしたと言いましょう!

Toritoribe · 21 Dec 2015

When an inanimate thing is the subject in a passive sentence, "personに" can't be used to indicate the agent. によって or から is used in these cases.
e.g.
active
ある中国人僧侶が寺院を建立した。
passive
ある中国人僧侶によって寺院が建立された。

active
彼は彼女にプレゼントを贈った。
passive
彼から彼女にプレゼントが贈られた。

letslearn · 21 Dec 2015

Toritoribe said:
When an inanimate thing is the subject in a passive sentence, "personに" can't be used to indicate the agent. によって or から is used in these cases.
e.g.
active
ある中国人僧侶が寺院を建立した。
passive
ある中国人僧侶によって寺院が建立された。

active
彼は彼女にプレゼントを贈った。
passive
彼から彼女にプレゼントが贈られた。

Thanks Toritoribesan,
So far in my studies I have not seen this.
More and more I feel the passive form will be the death of me. Ha,Ha

letslearn · 21 Dec 2015

Toritoribe said:
When an inanimate thing is the subject in a passive sentence, "personに" can't be used to indicate the agent. によって or から is used in these cases.
e.g.
active
ある中国人僧侶が寺院を建立した。
passive
ある中国人僧侶によって寺院が建立された。

active
彼は彼女にプレゼントを贈った。
passive
彼から彼女にプレゼントが贈られた。

toritoribesan
I was wondering if it was the same pattern for intangible objects like advice. e.g
彼から助言が受けられました。？
I realise that this would normally use をしてくれる i.e
彼が私に助言をしてくれた。

よろしくお願いします

Toritoribe · 22 Dec 2015

Sorry, "can't be used" is not appropriate. It should be "is hardly used", since "personに" can indicate the agent in some cases.
active
泥棒が財布を盗んだ。
passive
財布が泥棒に盗まれた。

letslearn said:
I was wondering if it was the same pattern for intangible objects like advice. e.g
彼から助言が受けられました。？

Yes, that's right. から can be used when the verb has a sense of direction, such like 伝える, 渡す, 紹介する.

letslearn said:
I realise that this would normally use をしてくれる i.e
彼が私に助言をしてくれた。

That's the problem why/when the passive sentence is used. For instance, you don't need to specify who built the temple in a passive sentence 1629年に寺院が建立された. This is convenient when the agent is unclear.
e.g.
財布が盗まれた。
プレゼントが贈られてきた。
来年オリンピックが開催される。

letslearn · 22 Dec 2015

Thanks everyone
With each day there is new hope!

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