Need a word or phrase translated?

undrentide · 11 Jul 2006

Fuumei said:
お前と私は見ている
I found this usage of "と" rather curious. Can this be translated as saying "I'm seeing you as me"? I came across another sentence with the same kind of "と" earlier with this: パトカーとタクシーを間違っていた. "I mistook a patrol car as a taxi". Any help would be appreciated.

There are two possible interpretation for the first sentence, i.e. お前と私は見ている

(1) You and me are looking/seeing/watching (something).
【お前と私】は見ている
(2) It's you, I decide/judge/think.
お前（である）と【私】は見ている
The latter can be elaborated to clarify what "it" means.
e.g.
犯人はお前（である）と見ている
ガラスを割ったのはお前（である）と見ている

I don't think it can be translated as "I'm seeing you as me" with this word order. If it is
私はお前と見ている
then you can be translated "I'm seeing you as me", though it must be in a very specific situation.
（私は）【私はお前（である）】と見ている

パトカーとタクシーを間違っていた
It should not be translated as "I mistook a patrol car as a taxi".
It sounds rather "I mixed up the patrol car and the taxi".
【パトカーとタクシー】を間違っていた

To say "I mistook a patrol car for a taxi"
パトカーを【タクシー（である）と】間違っていた

Glenn · 11 Jul 2006

undrentide said:
I feel that 届いている in this sentence is closer to the perfect tense.
届いた（completion）＋いる (status)
To me the sentence sounds like:
It's a service that the souvenir you selected will have been already delivered (by the time you get home from holiday).
(Literal translation would be "it's a service that the souvenir you'd selected has already been delivered by the time you got home from holiday" even though it is general statement, not talking about the past or something already happened.)

Ah, interesting. Hmm...

I remember reading that -te iru can have a "habitual action" interpretation, like 毎日、新聞を読んでいる (didn't want to confuse people into thinking I was talking about the 毎日新聞 ), which means "I read the newspaper every day." That made more sense to me than the resultant state interpretation, but now that you've explained it it makes sense. I guess the key word here is お土産. If it were 品物, then my interpretation may have been more appropriate.

undrentide said:
Recently I'm beginning to think that what we normally call present/past in Japanese is actually just "something not completed(or in progress)"/"something already completed". (*)
People say Japanese language has no future tense, just past and present tense, I think it is because "not completed" covers both future and present while "competed" covers the past.

Just to be sure (and to help illustrate this point), you can say 明日までにこの仕事を終えた, right?

Fuumei · 11 Jul 2006

undrentide said:
To say "I mistook a patrol car for a taxi"
パトカーを【タクシー（である）と】間違っていた

I haven't seen that usage of "である" before, at least in mid-sentence. I've only known it to be used as a form of "desu", to be used at the end of a sentence - usually reserved for written statements.

"今と昔とでは随分変わりましたか."

This usage of "to" is also strange. I notice that "では" sneaks in there, and the only guess I have is "as for among (de) now and then, has it changed a lot?" Is that correct?

undrentide · 11 Jul 2006

Glenn said:
I remember reading that -te iru can have a "habitual action" interpretation, like 毎日、新聞を読んでいる (didn't want to confuse people into thinking I was talking about the 毎日新聞 ), which means "I read the newspaper every day." That made more sense to me than the resultant state interpretation, but now that you've explained it it makes sense. I guess the key word here is お土産. If it were 品物, then my interpretation may have been more appropriate.

Hi Glenn san,

Well... to be honest, I'm not 100% sure what I'm talking about myself
They are just ideas came from my feelings.
And you are right about the key word - when seeing such an example, I realize once again that Japanese is very much context-driven language.

Glenn said:
Just to be sure (and to help illustrate this point), you can say 明日までにこの仕事を終えた, right?

No, I don't think so.
At least, not as a normal statement, because 明日までに (future) and 終えた (completion) contradict each other.
You can say it as a conditional clause, though.
明日までにこの仕事を終えたら、金曜日は休んでいいよ。

Glenn · 12 Jul 2006

Ah, so it isn't quite a perfect aspect marker, like I had read and wondered about.

I was thinking my sentence would be the Japanese version of "I will have finished this work/job by tomorrow." I guess it should be 明日までにこの仕事を終えてしまう.

Elizabeth · 12 Jul 2006

Glenn said:
Ah, so it isn't quite a perfect aspect marker, like I had read and wondered about.

I was thinking my sentence would be the Japanese version of "I will have finished this work/job by tomorrow." I guess it should be 明日までにこの仕事を終えてしまう.

Doesn't that need to be shimatte deshou ? or owatte deshou ?

wadestreasure · 12 Jul 2006

How to send phrase in Japanese

hi I have this book written in Japanese, it is a History of the Meiji Era, and I think it is an original. it's a pictorial guide of the Era. I would love to send you the words on the cover but can't draw that well. can you tell me how to do that? Forgive me for being a newbe!

Glenn · 12 Jul 2006

Do you mean しまったでしょう and 終わったでしょう. I thought that 終える was correct and 終わる wasn't because the former is transitive and the latter is intrasitive, but a check of the dictionary shows that it can be used with を.

Elizabeth · 12 Jul 2006

Glenn said:
Do you mean しまったでしょう and 終わったでしょう. I thought that 終える was correct and 終わる wasn't because the former is transitive and the latter is intransitive, but a check of the dictionary shows that it can be used with を.

Yes, I don't understand the difference on that very well either. But I was in a hurry (sorry) and of course meant to use the dictionary conjugation shimau deshou. :sorry:

Glenn · 12 Jul 2006

Oh, alright. Yeah, that might be better.

undrentide · 12 Jul 2006

Glenn said:
Ah, so it isn't quite a perfect aspect marker, like I had read and wondered about.
I was thinking my sentence would be the Japanese version of "I will have finished this work/job by tomorrow." I guess it should be 明日までにこの仕事を終えてしまう.

I would say
明日までにこの仕事を終わらせてしまう
明日までにこの仕事を終わらせているだろう
明日までにこの仕事を終わらせてしまっているだろう
明日までにこの仕事は終わるだろう
明日までにはこの仕事は終わっているだろう
明日までにはこの仕事は終わってしまっているだろう
(I feel that ている/てしまっている are closer to "will have done")

To me, 明日までにこの仕事を終わってしまったでしょう/終わったでしょう sound somewhat awkward... they don't sound like talking about the future, but more like talking about the past. Some sense of conflict between 明日 and しまったでしょう/終わったでしょう.
Hmmm.. sorry I cannot explain the reason.

Sorry if this causes further confusion.

Elizabeth · 12 Jul 2006

undrentide said:
I would say
明日までにこの仕事を終わらせてしまう
明日までにこの仕事を終わらせているだろう
明日までにこの仕事を終わらせてしまっているだろう
明日までにこの仕事は終わるだろう
明日までにはこの仕事は終わっているだろう
明日までにはこの仕事は終わってしまっているだろう
(I feel that ている/てしまっている are closer to "will have done")

Thanks, undrentide ! Yes, I've mostly seen "darou" in these cases of "will be/"would have been" "will/would have done," not "deshou" but somehow didn't think there should be a difference....

Glenn · 13 Jul 2006

I think I've got it now, undrentide. Thanks!

Fuumei · 13 Jul 2006

"今と昔とでは随分変わりましたか."
This usage of "to" is also strange. I notice that "では" sneaks in there, and the only guess I have is "as for among(de) now and then, has it changed a lot?" Is that correct?
Also:
大豆のように98%が輸入という物もある.
This sentence for some reason is baffling me. I was thinking there should be "している" behind "輸入" but I'm sure my book isn't wrong. Can someone break this down? Or at least give a hint?

undrentide · 13 Jul 2006

Fuumei said:
"今と昔とでは随分変わりましたか."
This usage of "to" is also strange. I notice that "では" sneaks in there, and the only guess I have is "as for among(de) now and then, has it changed a lot?" Is that correct?

When listing up two things or more, sometimes we put と after each word.
と after the last word can be omitted, I don't think it makes much difference in meaning, but somehow word with と fits more naturally - it's only my feeling, but maybe because with the same ending (と in this case) make all the listed items look equal.

Fuumei said:
大豆のように98%が輸入という物もある.
This sentence for some reason is baffling me. I was thinking there should be "している" behind "輸入" but I'm sure my book isn't wrong. Can someone break this down? Or at least give a hint?

In this sentence 輸入 is either noun (import, or like 輸入品 imported goods) or adjective (imported).

【大豆のように】ａ【９８％が輸入】ｂ【という物もある】ｃ

b modifies 物 in c, and and a elaborate b-c.

There's such a thing
・・・というものもある）

(out) of which 98% is import
（その/そのうちの）98%が輸入

like soy beans (for instance)
（たとえば）大豆のように

I hope this helps.

Fuumei · 13 Jul 2006

undrentide said:
I hope this helps.

Yes that does, thank you. I suppose I should have worded my first question better.
""今と昔とでは随分変わりましたか." The "de" in that sentence, does mean "among", more or less, correct? Just pondering..

And off to another annoying question:

"誰に家を捜して貰いましたか"
This means, "Who did you have search for a house?" and not "Who did you receive a search for a house from?" correct?

Mikawa Ossan · 13 Jul 2006

Fuumei said:
And off to another annoying question:
"誰に家を捜して貰いましたか"
This means, "Who did you have search for a house?" and not "Who did you receive a search for a house from?" correct?

Yes, that's right.

Elizabeth · 13 Jul 2006

Fuumei said:
Yes that does, thank you. I suppose I should have worded my first question better.
""今と昔とでは随分変わりましたか." The "de" in that sentence, does mean "among", more or less, correct? Just pondering..

Better to think of it as between the past and present since among doesn't make a good English translation.

In the case of two listed items 「で」が Between の場合もあるし Out of three or more Among の場合も考えられますね。場合などによって、両方とも正しいですね。

undrentide · 14 Jul 2006

Mikawa Ossan and Elizabeth san already replied to your questions, so I'm just adding my two cents.

Fuumei said:
Yes that does, thank you. I suppose I should have worded my first question better.
""今と昔とでは随分変わりましたか." The "de" in that sentence, does mean "among", more or less, correct? Just pondering..

Yes.
When you are taking more than two things and compare them, you can use "de" which means among, between, within, etc.

Fuumei said:
"誰に家を捜して貰いましたか"
This means, "Who did you have search for a house?" and not "Who did you receive a search for a house from?" correct?

Yes.
もらう itself is a verb "to receive/get", but when it is combined with another verb ～てもらう, it means getting/receiving a favour by someone else.
In the above case, someone looked for a house for you i.e. the person did you a favour.

Fuumei · 14 Jul 2006

undrentide said:
もらう itself is a verb "to receive/get", but when it is combined with another verb ～てもらう, it means getting/receiving a favour by someone else.
In the above case, someone looked for a house for you i.e. the person did you a favour.

I think I see what I was doing. I was viewing the "ni" particle as indicating the person being used to do the favor, and not "from" as in receiving from.

Elizabeth said:
場合などによって、両方とも正しいですね。

"Because of(though this might be better said as 'depending on' I think) ocassion and such, both certainly are correct aren't they?" That's what I get out of what you said here. If I'm not correct (and I'm sure I am not) go easy on me.

Glenn · 14 Jul 2006

It's "depending on." "Both are correct, depending on the situation (and such)."

Elizabeth · 14 Jul 2006

Glenn said:
It's "depending on." "Both are correct, depending on the situation (and such)."

２つの文章の中に３回「場合」が出て来るのは、ちょっと不自然に聞こえるんでしょうね。違う言い方
を考えます。

Elizabeth · 15 Jul 2006

Fuumei said:
I think I see what I was doing. I was viewing the "ni" particle as indicating the person being used to do the favor, and not "from" as in receiving from.

Ni does mark the person either that the favor was gotten from (I received someone searching a house for me) or that the speaker requested do the task (I had someone search for a house) in te + morau type sentences.

「誰に家を探して貰いましたか？」という質問であれば
Who looked for the house for the subject ? ?と解釈すべきですね。

Fuumei · 15 Jul 2006

Elizabeth said:
Ni does mark the person either that the favor was gotten from (I received someone searching a house for me) or that the speaker requested do the task (I had someone search for a house) in te + morau type sentences.
「誰に家を探して貰いましたか？」という質問であれば
Who looked for the house for the subject ? ?と解釈すべきですね。

成る程. 有り難うございます

Glenn · 15 Jul 2006

That's the first time I've ever seen that written in kanji. It's almost a shame that you didn't use 御座います.

Need a word or phrase translated?

Japa'n vagyok

一切皆苦

眼鏡が要る

Japa'n vagyok

一切皆苦

先輩

後輩

一切皆苦

先輩

一切皆苦

Japa'n vagyok

先輩

一切皆苦

眼鏡が要る

Japa'n vagyok

眼鏡が要る

いかんわ！

先輩

Japa'n vagyok

眼鏡が要る

一切皆苦

先輩

先輩

眼鏡が要る

一切皆苦

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