Need a word or phrase translated?

undrentide · 22 Jun 2006

Glenn said:
皆さん is read みなさん. I guess by itself it could be read みんな, but that reading isn't listed in the 新漢語林 (Shin Kangorin), although they also don't have きく as a reading for 訊, so I'm not so sure how common it is for Japanese people to see 皆 and say みんな.

Japanese people don't say みんなさん. It's either みなさん or みんな (although I suppose みな on its own is fine too).

Yes, you're right that kanji for みんな is 皆.
Both 新字源 Shinjigen and 広辞苑 Koujien show 皆（みんな）.
But somehow - or is it only me? - when seeing the kanji 皆, I tend to read it みな rather than みんな.
I write みんな in hiragana, but that could be a question of personal taste.

Accordingly to 広辞苑:
みんな【皆】ミンナの撥音化
Sure, みんな is much easier to pronounce than みな.

If you watch old samurai films, you'll hear someone shout
皆の衆（みなのしゅう）！ or 皆の者（みなのもの）！ to addressing people around.
The former is to address to one's fellow-farmers or commoners while the latter is often used by someone with authority to address to lowly people.

Glenn said:
[Disclaimer] Every time I post the above information somewhere, some non-Japanese person seems to tell me that it's wrong, only to have Japanese people say "no, we don't say みんなさん." I'm just saying this now so that I can avoid the argument yet again.

I guess you've experienced it quite so often that you feel like to write this disclaimer, Glenn san...
I wonder why they want to tell you "you're wrong" instead of saying "oh, I see"...?
Could it be the same mentality as that of most Japanese so-called "English conversation schools" (funny name) who want to have only the native speakers as their teaching staff... as if being native is a qualification to be able to teach the language?!

To me, honestly speaking, finding "minnasan" ever so often on various forum is rather annoying as much as "romaji" is...

Glenn · 22 Jun 2006

undrentide said:
To me, honestly speaking, finding "minnasan" ever so often on various forum is rather annoying as much as "romanji" is...

hahaha

It's interesting that you say that; "romanji" annoys me too.

And to answer your question, I've had that argument at least three times, maybe four, and it gets really old.

oliverf · 22 Jun 2006

Kyoko_desuさんThank you for the explanation.
Glennさんand undrentideさん
I remember always hearing my 日本人の先生の日本語(is this correct, I want to say Japanese teacher of nihongo) say みなさん。。。addressing us students. Other than this, I never heard her use it anywhere else during our 4weeks basic Japanese language course. However, while studying audio lessons (pimpleur) I heard this example ... みんなしまています
Does this mean, on its own, its みんな else みな
Thanks !

ps what's wrong with 'romaji'?

Glenn · 22 Jun 2006

There's no "n."

From what I've heard when it's on its own it's pronounced みんな, but like I said, I suppose it could also be みな.

DemonHunter · 22 Jun 2006

Mikawa Ossan said:
Here is pretty literal translation without the slang.
Thank you so much!
You are too great (to believe)!
Just who are you? (meant in a good way)
I send these words to you with great appreciation. Please listen to them.
From Kato

thanks for the translation

i have one other small request

i would like to see these(song) titles
in normal letters

1. 風来坊
2. 氷雨月のスケッチ
3. 明日あたりはきっと春
4. 無風状態
5. さよなら通り3番地
6. 相合傘
7. 田舎道
8. 外はいい天気
9. さよならアメリカさよならニッポン

Thanks already

undrentide · 22 Jun 2006

DemonHunter said:
i have one other small request
i would like to see these(song) titles
in normal letters

What do "normal letters" mean?

DemonHunter · 22 Jun 2006

undrentide said:
What do "normal letters" mean?

I mean
that its readable for most people
and that I can cut and paste it in the winamp (or any other music player)
an tag the files correctly
(winamp doesn't accept Japanese calligraphy)

undrentide · 22 Jun 2006

DemonHunter said:
i mean
that its readable for most people
and that i can cut and paste it in the winamp (or any other music player)
an tag the files correctly
(winamp doesnt accept japanese calligraphy)

Sorry to say that "readable for most people" is still not very clear to me, but assuming from your comments, maybe you mean in romaji (Japanese written in Roman alphabets)? If it is the case;

1. 風来坊 - fuuraibou
2. 氷雨月のスケッチ - hisamezuki no sukecchi
3. 明日あたりはきっと春 - ashita atariwa kitto haru (or could be asu atari wa kitto haru)
4. 無風状態 - mufuujoutai
5. さよなら通り3番地 - sayonaradoori sanbanchi
6. 相合傘 - aiaigasa
7. 田舎道 - inakamichi
8. 外はいい天気 - soto wa ii tenki
9. さよならアメリカさよならニッポン - sayonara amerika sayonara nippon

Hope this helps.

DemonHunter · 22 Jun 2006

undrentide said:
Sorry to say that "readable for most people" is still not very clear to me, but assuming from your comments, maybe you mean in romaji (Japanese written in Roman alphabets)? If it is the case;
1. 風来坊 - fuuraibou
2. 氷雨月のスケッチ - hisamezuki no sukecchi
3. 明日あたりはきっと春 - ashita atariwa kitto haru (or could be asu atari wa kitto haru)
4. 無風状態 - mufuujoutai
5. さよなら通り3番地 - sayonaradoori sanbanchi
6. 相合傘 - aiaigasa
7. 田舎道 - inakamichi
8. 外はいい天気 - soto wa ii tenki
9. さよならアメリカさよならニッポン - sayonara amerika sayonara nippon
Hope this helps.

romaji it is, I couldn't find the correct word

Thanks for the translation!

Tsukichi · 23 Jun 2006

Is there a word (or words) in Japanese for "inside cover" (as in, the inside cover of a book)?

Glenn · 23 Jun 2006

Maybe 内面の表紙 (naimen no hyôshi). I'm just guessing, though.

undrentide · 23 Jun 2006

I don't know exactly which part of the book "inside cover" refers, but this page might help.
UDj̐{悤
(Some of the descriptions are not commonly used.)

:

Tsukichi · 23 Jun 2006

Thanks for the quick responses. 内面の表紙 does make some sense. But what I was referring to seems to be called still be called simply "cover" カバー although its referred to in parenthesis as (そでの部分) according to the undrentide's diagram...

hmm...

epigene · 23 Jun 2006

I've always been confused by the terminology used in book publication in Japanese and English--an example being 帯 .
Translation anyone?

If by inside cover, you mean the page after the hard/soft cover (depending on how the book is bound) where you see the title, author name, etc., or a photo, illustration, etc., I think you can use the term 内表紙（うちびょうし）

HTH!

Glenn · 23 Jun 2006

epigene said:
I've always been confused by the terminology used in book publication in Japanese and English--an example being 帯 .
Translation anyone?

It isn't the spine?

epigene said:
If by inside cover, you mean the page after the hard/soft cover (depending on how the book is bound) where you see the title, author name, etc., or a photo, illustration, etc., I think you can use the term 内表紙（うちびょうし）
HTH!

You know, I was about to suggest that (after I checked 裏表紙) but I figured it wasn't a word since it isn't in the 大辞林.

oliverf · 23 Jun 2006

Okagesamade

はい！げんきです。おかげさまで。

from examples it seems that this is equivalent to "Yes I am good. Thank you for asking?". But looking at おかげさまでon its own, it says "thanks to God and thanks to you".

My question is, where else can i use this phrase?
Can I use this to show appreciation / thanks to someone (without her asking if i am good). How is this different with the regular thank you ありがとう?

Tsukichi · 23 Jun 2006

epigene said:
I've always been confused by the terminology used in book publication in Japanese and English--an example being 帯 .
Translation anyone?

If you look at the URL referenced by undrentide, (UDj̐{悤) it seems to refer to 帯 as being the thin little removable ad flap thing that publishing companies put in new books.

It isn't the spine?

I'm pretty sure "spine" is 背.

If by inside cover, you mean the page after the hard/soft cover (depending on how the book is bound) where you see the title, author name, etc., or a photo, illustration, etc.,

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant, although I was specifically thinking of the little excerpts/summaries/abstracts that are put on the front inside flap for novels and the like.

はい！げんきです。おかげさまで。
from examples it seems that this is equivalent to "Yes I am good. Thank you for asking?". But looking at おかげさまでon its own, it says "thanks to God and thanks to you".
My question is, where else can I use this phrase?
Can I use this to show appreciation / thanks to someone (without her asking if i am good). How is this different with the regular thank you ありがとう?

おかげさまで is the formal version of おかげで which basically means "thanks to". This can mean "thanks to you" or you could say: "Thanks to Takemoto-san" (竹本さんのおかげで). Essentially, you could thank just about anyone.
By just using おかげさまで or おかげで you are assuming that whoever you're talking to knows who you are giving credit to in your thanks.

Glenn · 23 Jun 2006

Tsukichi said:
If you look at the URL referenced by undrentide, (UDj̐{悤) it seems to refer to 帯 as being the thin little removable ad flap thing that publishing companies put in new books.

I'm pretty sure "spine" is 背.

Ah, I guess that makes sense. Hmm, I don't know what to call 帯. Is there a name for it?

Tsukichi · 23 Jun 2006

帯 can be pronounced おび as in the obi of a kimono or たい as in a band of some sort. I don't know which pronunciation is appropriate for this situation though. But if forced to guess, I think I'd go with obi. (Because it would be more common(?))

Glenn · 23 Jun 2006

Hmm, I think I'd go with obi too.

Elizabeth · 23 Jun 2006

おかげさまで is the formal version of おかげで which basically means "thanks to". This can mean "thanks to you" or you could say: "Thanks to Takemoto-san" (竹本さんのおかげで). Essentially, you could thank just about anyone. By just using おかげさまで or おかげで you are assuming that whoever you're talking to knows who you are giving credit to in your thanks.

Okage (sama)de is a greeting or set social phrase used in response to a
question addressed to the speaker related to their personal well-being or current situation, for instance "Ogenki desuka?" or "Ikaga desuka." It isn't done in a way to initiate a dialogue and the referent should be obvious.

Excuse the Japanese, if it isn't helpful. I will attempt a loose translation here.

"Okagesama de" wa aisatsu de yoku tsukaimsu. Aite kara shitsumon sareta
toki ya jibun no koto, kinkyou wo hanasu toki ni tsukaimsu. 'Ogenki deuska?" ni taishite, "Okagede...." to kotaetari, "okagesama de genki desu, Okagesama de nihongo ga daibu wakaru youni narimashita. Arigatou gozaimasu." toka desu. Ikinari "okaga (sama) de" to iu koto wa nai to omoimasu.

Elizabeth · 25 Jun 2006

My question is, where else can i use this phrase?
Can I use this to show appreciation / thanks to someone (without her asking if i am good). How is this different with the regular thank you ありがとう?

I think last time I answered this in too much of a hurry, stuck with an easily translatable simplified explanation and without rechecking the original question.

So one more attempt with examples....Yes, you can use おかげ（さま）で in much the same way we would say "Thanks to" "owing to" or "due to" to indicate something as the reason for a desirable (or in some cases, negative) outcome and the cause can reference either a thing or a particular person(s).

皆様の応援のおかげで仕事を成功した）。 (Thanks to everyone's support, my work was successful).
裕福な家のおかげで、成功しました。(I succeeded thanks to my family money).

分かりましたか？

oliverf · 26 Jun 2006

Elizabeth said:
I think last time I answered this in too much of a hurry, stuck with an easily translatable simplified explanation and without rechecking the original question.
So one more attempt with examples....Yes, you can use おかげ（さま）で in much the same way we would say "Thanks to" "owing to" or "due to" to indicate something as the reason for a desirable (or in some cases, negative) outcome and the cause can reference either a thing or a particular person(s).
皆様の応援のおかげで仕事を成功した）。 (Thanks to everyone's support, my work was successful).
裕福な家のおかげで、成功しました。(I succeeded thanks to my family money).
分かりましたか？

はい！分かりますた。

Elizabeth さんyou also mentioned that it can be use for 'negative' result.
Will the sentence be a sarcasm if the phrase is used to thank someone for something that is negative. Btw, is there such a sentence (sarcasm) in Japanese?

Example: I failed the test, thanks to you ! (I tried to translate this is nihongo but I cant find the word for failed -- obviously my vocabulary is still very limited)

Is there a negative form for this phrase?

Example: I passed the test, no thanks to you !

どうもありがとうございます！

undrentide · 26 Jun 2006

oliverf said:
はい！分かりますた。
Elizabeth さんyou also mentioned that it can be use for 'negative' result.
Will the sentence be a sarcasm if the phrase is used to thank someone for something that is negative. Btw, is there such a sentence (sarcasm) in Japanese?
Example: I failed the test, thanks to you ! (i tried to translate this is nihongo but I cant find the word for failed -- obviously my vocabulary is still very limited)
Is there a negative form for this phrase?
Example: I passed the test, no thanks to you !
どうもありがとうございます！

You can use おかげ in a negative way (in sense of meaning, sarcasm):
The example you mentioned
Example: I failed the test, thanks to you !
can be tranlated to
きみのおかげで試験に失敗したよ。

Normally we use ～のせいで instead of ～のおかげで when one get negative result (in the above example, きみのせいで試験に失敗した） but when using ～のおかげで the sentence is with heavy sarcasm.

Example: I passed the test, no thanks to you !
I cannot think of negative expression of おかげ, what might be close is
試験に合格したけれど、別にきみのおかげじゃない。
I passed the test, but not that with your help/nothing to do with you/it's nothing I should thank you for...etc.

kanfaim · 26 Jun 2006

こんにちは、みなさん
私は新しいメンバーです。よろしく。

私のしつもんは日本語でunderstandの使え方は何か？
たとえば。。。
Who will understand me? <=- "わかられる"を使えるの？
I think is weird to use wakaru because it also means to divide, or it is right? Can anyone help me with the use of understand in Japanese? ありがとうございます

Need a word or phrase translated?

Japa'n vagyok

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相変わらず不束者です

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