Need a little help on this

musicisgood · 13 Apr 2020

仕事しごとの問題もんだいで困こまった外国人がいこくじんはハローワークに相談そうだんして」

1. shigoto I know
2. mondai I know
3. gaikoku jin I know
4. hello works I know
5. soudanshite I know

But how would I state this in a sentence.

There is a problem at work in discussion with foreigners at hello works and much trouble is present ? would that be close?

cez · 13 Apr 2020

Start from the back. Look at soudanshite. What verb form is this? Go from there.

musicisgood · 14 Apr 2020

OK. "in the past at Hello Works , my discussion of my problem and troubles at work was not solved" ? something like that?

Toritoribe · 14 Apr 2020

Sorry to point out this, but, no, it's completely wrong. What do you think about cez-san's advise and question? What verb form is 相談して? What the dictionary form of this, and what the function of the form?

bentenmusume · 14 Apr 2020

In addition the excellent advice that cez-san and Toritoribe-san have already given you, I'd also like to point out that in your translations, you keep adding things to the sentence that aren't there.

As you mention in your OP, you know all the individual words in the sentence. Yet in your translations so far, you keep adding things like "much trouble is present", "[problems] were solved", or "my discussion of the problem", which do not exist anywhere in the Japanese. It's as if you're trying to guess at what a sentence containing the words shigoto, gaikokujin, etc. could mean rather than reading the sentence that's actually there.

Another thing I'll point out (that I have a feeling might be tripping you up) is that the phrase 仕事の問題で困った is modifying (describing) 外国人. This is what's usually called a relative clause, and if you're still early in your studies, there's a chance you haven't encountered or been taught this yet.

mdchachi · 14 Apr 2020

musicisgood said:
仕事しごとの問題もんだいで困こまった外国人がいこくじんはハローワークに相談そうだんして」

1. shigoto I know
2. mondai I know
3. gaikoku jin I know
4. hello works I know
5. soudanshite I know

But how would I state this in a sentence.

There is a problem at work in discussion with foreigners at hello works and much trouble is present ? would that be close?

You know the words but how about how they are put together?

1. shigoto no mondai
2. komatta gaikokujin
and consider what each particle is indicating,
3. de
4. ha
5. ni

musicisgood · 14 Apr 2020

mdchachi said:
You know the words but how about how they are put together?

1. shigoto no mondai
2. komatta gaikokujin
and consider what each particle is indicating,
3. de
4. ha
5. ni

So would it be
1. my problem at work
2. a troubled foreigner

the others not to sure

Thanks

bentenmusume · 14 Apr 2020

For (1), where are you getting "my"?
For (2), this can be confusing because Japanese doesn't explicitly state singular or plural, but this sentence is not referring to a single/individual 困った外国人, but 困った外国人 in general.

Also, as I mentioned above, 仕事の問題 is connected to 困った with the particle で, and in turn the entire phrase 仕事の問題で困った is describing 外国人.

mdchachi · 14 Apr 2020

musicisgood said:
So would it be
1. my problem at work
2. a troubled foreigner

2) YES
1) There is no "my" in the sentence. Also "no" never indicates "at." Although you could translate it this way, it's better to just use what you should already know. How about some other no examples to remind you.
こどものあそび
きのはっぱ
おうちのだいどころ

bentenmusume · 14 Apr 2020

Also, just checking, but are you looking to understand this sentence as part of your Japanese language studies, or do you just need to know what it translates to?

I ask because I think everyone here (myself included) is assuming the former, but if you're not really learning particles or Japanese grammar and sentence structure it's going to be pretty hard to arrive at the right interpretation this way.

If you just need a translation, we can give that to you.

musicisgood · 14 Apr 2020

mdchachi said:
2) YES
1) There is no "my" in the sentence. Also "no" never indicates "at." Although you could translate it this way, it's better to just use what you should already know. How about some other no examples to remind you.
こどものあそび
きのはっぱ
おうちのだいどころ

child is playing
the leaf of the tree

the other one, don't know

musicisgood · 14 Apr 2020

bentenmusume said:
Also, just checking, but are you looking to understand this sentence as part of your Japanese language studies, or do you just need to know what it translates to?

I ask because I think everyone here (myself included) is assuming the former, but if you're not really learning particles or Japanese grammar and sentence structure it's going to be pretty hard to arrive at the right interpretation this way.

If you just need a translation, we can give that to you.

Thanks
I just really can't put the language together , and because of that, I just got to learn words at the moment and some sentences. I know a few words help me out on the streets, but trying to speak it intelligently , I've pretty much gave up on that.
Here is the heading of what the kanji and words that I was learning;

NEWS WEB EASY|「仕事の問題で困った外国人はハローワークに相談して」

法律では、会社は、働く人に仕事を休むように言った場合、働く人にお金を払わなければなりません。働く人が日本人でも外国人でも同じです。会社は、お...

www3.nhk.or.jp

bentenmusume · 14 Apr 2020

musicisgood said:
きのはっぱ
the leaf of the tree

Yes.

musicisgood said:
こどものあそび
child is playing

No.

Both of these phrases (neither is a complete sentence) are the same exact grammatical structure, i.e. XのY.

If きのはっぱ means "the leaf of (a/the) tree", how could こどものあそび mean "the child is playing"? That would be expressed in a completely different manner. こども would have to be marked as the subject, and it would require a verb conjugated to the present progressive (i.e. "doing") form. (Specifically, it would be 「こどもがあそんでいる」)

mdchachi · 14 Apr 2020

musicisgood said:
child is playing
the leaf of the tree

the other one, don't know

I think it's easier to remember if you leave out the verbs or prepositional phrases.
child play or childsplay
tree's leaf or tree leaves
house's kitchen

bentenmusume · 14 Apr 2020

musicisgood said:
Thanks.

I just really can't put the language together , and because of that, I just got to learn words at the moment and some sentences. I know a few words help me out on the streets, but trying to speak it intelligently , I've pretty much gave up on that.

Hmm, I see.

This may be unneeded/unwanted advice, but if you're studying the language in any capacity, I feel like it would be kind of unfortunate to completely "give up" on learning grammar and sentence structure altogether. Even if you're not trying to speak as naturally as a native speaker, getting a basic understanding of how the language works beyond just memorizing random vocab would go a long way to helping you understand things.

Let me break down the original sentence for you:

仕事の問題で困った外国人はハローワークに相談して

First of all, the headline ends after して (the -て form of する, "to do"), but there is an implied request here, e.g.

仕事の問題で困った外国人はハローワークに相談して（ください）

So the core of the sentence is 外国人はハローワークに相談して. 外国人 is marked with the topic marker は, so essentially, the sentence is asking/telling 外国人 to 相談する (the meaning of 相談する is closer to "consult" than "discuss") with Hello Work.

As I mentioned above 仕事で困った is a relative clause describing 外国人, i.e. specifying which or what kind of 外国人 it's referring to. So the sentence isn't addressing all 外国人, but rather those who can be described as 仕事の問題で困った.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit more without giving away the "right answer" entirely.

musicisgood · 14 Apr 2020

bentenmusume said:
Hmm, I see.

This may be unneeded/unwanted advice, but if you're studying the language in any capacity, I feel like it would be kind of unfortunate to completely "give up" on learning grammar and sentence structure altogether. Even if you're not trying to speak as naturally as a native speaker, getting a basic understanding of how the language works beyond just memorizing random vocab would go a long way to helping you understand things.

Let me break down the original sentence for you:

仕事の問題で困った外国人はハローワークに相談して

First of all, the headline ends after して (the -て form of する, "to do"), but there is an implied request here, e.g.

仕事の問題で困った外国人はハローワークに相談して（ください）

So the core of the sentence is 外国人はハローワークに相談して. 外国人 is marked with the topic marker は, so essentially, the sentence is asking/telling 外国人 to 相談する (the meaning of 相談する is closer to "consult" than "discuss") with Hello Work.

As I mentioned above 仕事で困った is a relative clause describing 外国人, i.e. specifying which or what kind of 外国人 it's referring to. So the sentence isn't addressing all 外国人, but rather those who can be described as 仕事の問題で困った.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit more without giving away the "right answer" entirely.

Thanks, OK, I'll work on it again. But your help IS most appreciated.

Need a little help on this

musicisgood

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cez

先輩

musicisgood

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Toritoribe

松葉解禁

bentenmusume

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mdchachi

Moderator

musicisgood

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bentenmusume

原点回帰

mdchachi

Moderator

bentenmusume

原点回帰

musicisgood

Sempai

musicisgood

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NEWS WEB EASY|「仕事の問題で困った外国人はハローワークに相談して」

bentenmusume

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mdchachi

Moderator

bentenmusume

原点回帰

musicisgood

Sempai

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