Name change or not?

[Davey]

I think I have asked this question before (well, a similar question) but after searching the forum for about 10 minutes I give up and post a new thread... if you find the old thread I will delete this one or close it.

Anyway, I am married to a Japanese and we are expecting a baby in June. My wife still has her own family name, and I wonder if we should change it or not. I know that our child will get her family name if we don't change it, but what does it mean for me? For example does it means that if (I hope not) we would divorce that I have no rights because the child does not have the same name as I have...

Of course we can change the name to my Family name: Stokhof, but thinking about the future I think we will be living her for a while (10-30+ years), so having a child and a wife with a family name would maybe be easier for them.

Any official links (Japanese is fine), and advice, experience would be great!

 

[Mycernius]

Why not change your family name to hers? Or combine the two, so it becomes double barrelled?

 

[Haruspex]

Just stick to her family name. Im talking from my experience, people here can barely pronounce my family name, let alone write it. Its damn annoying, and neither Hungarians nor Armenians use syllabaries, so pronouncing my name is relatively easy. Imagine a Japanese person trying to say Stokhof.
Regarding the divorcement, well, you would still have right to your child regardless of name, at least that stands in any and every decent country's jurisdiction, so I suppose Japan shares that trait too.

 

[Glenski]

Should you divorce, you have practically zero rights on your kids, I think, whether they take her name or yours. Read the article here on "In Japan, Custody Equals Possession" and the one on "Japan Visitation Rights Nearly Non-Existent; Non-Enforceable". http://www.crnjapan.com/en/index.html

These are relevant, too.
http://www.uea.ac.uk/swk/iccd2006/Presentations/misawa33.pdf
Japanese Family Law | The Law Office of Jeremy D. Morley

Barring divorce, there are two other situations you have to consider:
you stay married,
your wife passes away before you do.

I can't say what will happen on situation #2. Check with a lawyer.
However, as for situation #1, please realize right now that you are hardly listed on your wife's family register. You are merely her dependent. The kids are next in line, not you.

Your wife had 6 months after your marriage, I believe, to choose to take your name or remain with hers. After that time, she may still be able to change her name (legally on all her own documents like driver's license and most definitely on her family register). It will take some doing, however, I think, to do that. Consult a lawyer for any and all repercussions and options.
Here's a little on family registers.
Family Registration Law of Japan | The Law Office of Jeremy D. Morley

 

[Goldiegirl]

I would hyphenate it. I didn't take my husbands last name. I like mine. But, if we have kids they will get both last names. I get the feeling that you really want them to have your last name. If that's the case let your wife know how much it means to you. I am sure she'll understand, she loves you!

 

[epigene]

Aside from the fact that the baby's mother holds the edge in winning custody in case of a divorce, I don't see any problem regarding names. You can keep yours, and your wife can keep hers and unofficially use double-barreled name, such as Machida-Stokhof or something like that. (Disclaimer: I made up the name "Machida"--it's purely fictitious.)

In addition to registering your child with the local municipal government, you should register the birth of your child with the Dutch consulate or embassy and give the baby Dutch nationality. The baby can remain a dual until adulthood and use either your wife's or your family name or both.

Suppose you give your child Japanese and Dutch names, such as Takeshi and Jan. You can use either one or both, giving the baby the name Takeshi Machida in the eyes of Japanese law and Jan Stokhof (or other alternatives such as Jan Takeshi Stokhof, Jan Takeshi Machida-Stokhof or even Takeshi Jan Stokhof, etc.) under Dutch law.

I've seen this done with international couples (foreign-national husband and Japanese wife).

 

[Davey]

Why not change your family name to hers?

This sure is a great option, that I might be willing to do! But I don't think my Family would be very happy about it (well... I'm old enough). I think it might also be better for my future life here in Japan.

Imagine a Japanese person trying to say Stokhof.

That's the thing... I don't mind and I know my wife wouldn't mind it either to that my wife has to do some things with the name Stokhof, but I am thinking about our kids... if they might have difficulties because of this name (which sure isn't an easy name to pronounce).

Should you divorce, you have practically zero rights on your kids, I think, whether they take her name or yours.

Thank you for this information. I just want to make clear that we have no intention to divorce and we are happily married. .

I guess the only way to go on the koseki is to become Japanese right (to not be just an attachment)?

Are their any links except the lawyer divorce one?

I would hyphenate it. I didn't take my husbands last name. I like mine. But, if we have kids they will get both last names. I get the feeling that you really want them to have your last name. If that's the case let your wife know how much it means to you. I am sure she'll understand, she loves you!

My wife actually doesn't mind it to take my name, but I just wonder about our kids. That they always have to explain about their last name, people who are having difficulties to pronounce it, etc.

In addition to registering your child with the local municipal government, you should register the birth of your child with the Dutch consulate or embassy and give the baby Dutch nationality.

I guess I have to do this right after the birth?

The baby can remain a dual until adulthood and use either your wife's or your family name or both.
Suppose you give your child Japanese and Dutch names, such as Takeshi and Jan. You can use either one or both, giving the baby the name Takeshi Machida in the eyes of Japanese law and Jan Stokhof (or other alternatives such as Jan Takeshi Stokhof, Jan Takeshi Machida-Stokhof or even Takeshi Jan Stokhof, etc.) under Dutch law.
I've seen this done with international couples (foreign-national husband and Japanese wife).[/QUOTE]

So when I register my child, I can register two names family names? Rina Stokhof-Terao... or am I allowed to use a middle name officially?

It sure isn't an easy thing, lol

Once again thanks for the advice, and I am still waiting for some information from others on the forum, whom are having kids with a Japanese national.

 

[Glenski]

Thank you for this information. I just want to make clear that we have no intention to divorce and we are happily married.

Glad to hear that, but you were the one who brought it up, so I just thought I'd continue with that possibility.

I guess the only way to go on the koseki is to become Japanese right (to not be just an attachment)?

You can keep the present koseki situation and always be listed as a dependent, even lower in rank than your oldest child. I will repeat myself by urging you to talk to a lawyer about any other repercussions (one that comes to mind is anything involving inheritance of property, money, debts, etc.). For what it's worth, I have not checked it out myself, and I am just a dependent on my wife's koseki.

Are their any links except the lawyer divorce one?

Links about what exactly? This has been a rather info-filled thread.

My wife actually doesn't mind it to take my name, but I just wonder about our kids. That they always have to explain about their last name, people who are having difficulties to pronounce it, etc.

I wouldn't worry about mispronouncing last names. If you plan to stay in Japan, you yourself are going to run into that, and you just have to develop a thick hide for it. My own real name has a lot of the letter L in it, so imagine how I feel!

As for explaining their last name, though, that would bother me, even though back in my homeland, I have several relatives with kids that have different surnames than one or both parents.

I guess I have to do this right after the birth?

Confirm everything with your own embassy/consulate.

So when I register my child, I can register two names family names? Rina Stokhof-Terao... or am I allowed to use a middle name officially?

I don't think you can use 2 family names (surnames), but check on this. You will probably have problems when going through airport immigration if they want to see both passports.

As for middle names, that gets tricky but it's something you can do ... sorta. My own kid has a middle name, but it is written separately only on his American passport. As for his Japanese passport and Japanese birth records, he is listed as only first name and surname. The first name and middle name are blended together. Example: Takashijohn Smith vs. Takashi John Smith. I live with this curiosity, and when you take the child to the hospital, the insurance records officer may call out "Smith Takashijohn!!" when it's his turn. Schools may do the same thing, but for now, my kid is registered only as "Takashi Smith" there. A lawyer may have better input on how registered names affect things like pension records.

 

[epigene]

There is the thing in Japan called the 通名（つうめい）, which means name that is not official but used for professional purpose, etc. Your wife can use the Stokhof family name as her "tsuu-mei" if she wants to.

It is best to register the name of your child with first name and family name only for the Japanese family registry. This is convenient when living in Japan.

With registration of the baby's birth at the Dutch consulate, the baby gains Dutch nationality. This is convenient when living in Holland or elsewhere in the EU.

As for giving the child a Dutch name, you can do so within the framework of Dutch family law regarding use of middle name, two family names, etc. If it is permitted, you can give the baby a middle name and/or two family names as a Dutch national. It is best to consult the Dutch consulate, as Glenski advises.

It certainly is confusing to be married to a foreign national and to have a dual-national child, but I think it's worth it, since the child will enjoy freedom of movement (living and working) in the two countries without worrying about visas.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Just my two bits:

I think I would take her family name if I were you. It may be legally possible for the two of you to have separate last names, but I don't like the idea. It's like you're not really commited to the marriage.

I would avoid giving the baby a middle name. I have yet to meet someone who shares this opinion, but I hate living in Japan with a middle name. It's bad enough that my name without the middle name is sometimes too long to submit fully on forms, but when you introduce the idea of a middle name....argh.

I'm pretty certain that hyphenated names do not exist in Japan. And even if they did, I would be opposed to the idea.

I guess I'm just a little old fashioned when it comes to family matters.

 

[Homerduff]

I know I'm still quite away from getting in this kind of a sitation myself. But I agree with Mikawa Ossan for this mather. I would definetly chose what's best for the child, and I'm sure it would be a Japanese name. I've heard stories about dual citizenship children who would get bullied just because they have a strange name. And even lather on, they could still be discriminated (maybe just slightly).

I understand that your family probably won't agree 100 % with it. But a wise guy once said "What's in a name..". The relationship you have with people is not something written on paper, but it's the same blood that you have.

 

[SushiShin]

There is nothing bad with changing names. Just do what you think its best and were you feel good in. Live more Herbalicious and don't change the name.

 

[Haruspex]

I've heard stories about dual citizenship children who would get bullied just because they have a strange name. And even lather on, they could still be discriminated (maybe just slightly).

Hehe, yeah, although they don't mean to insult me, my mates always pester me with my family name, usually a curse helps, or mentioning a dead relative, but its annoying to hear the same boring jokes over and over.

 

[sanji]

I think the most important think to remember is that your wife can change her family name to yours only the first 6 months following the marriage. After that period, you would need to go to a court to get this change done, which is difficult.

Hyphenate both names is NOT an option under Japanese law, your wife either keep her name or take yours. If you keep both your name, your children can have either the mother's or the father's name. A possibility is to register the children with the mother's name in Japan, and the father's one in your embassy.

Keep in mind that this is only for official names - for Japanese, the one in the koseiki. But even if your wife keeps her name, she can have both names written in her passport in that format - MAIDEN (HUSBAND'S ONE). But again, the koseiki name is only the mother's one, and children would get that name in Japan.

sanji

 

[orochi]

I'm getting married in February and plan for my (Japanese) wife to take my last name. Although it's foreign, it's easy to pronounce and well-known in Japan. Shouldn't cause any problems for us. She's happy to use the name as well.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Anyway, I am married to a Japanese and we are expecting a baby in June. My wife still has her own family name, and I wonder if we should change it or not. I know that our child will get her family name if we don't change it, but what does it mean for me? For example does it means that if (I hope not) we would divorce that I have no rights because the child does not have the same name as I have...

Of course we can change the name to my Family name: Stokhof, but thinking about the future I think we will be living her for a while (10-30+ years), so having a child and a wife with a family name would maybe be easier for them.

Any official links (Japanese is fine), and advice, experience would be great!

Hi Duthcbaka:

DEFINITELY give your newborn your family name, and if possible, get your wife to change her's to your's. It may require something to do with the court, depending on how long you have been married within Japan.

If you give your baby her name, it will cause problems down the track.

My first was born in Australia. Whilst he has my family name in Australia, my wife who is Japanese, secretly registered him in Japan under her family name.

This has caused major problems now.

The Japanese consulate in Cairns, Australia did not require Mum and Dad's signature, Mum's was all they needed, same for JP passport.

As a side note, Japan has not joined many international laws related to child custody and abduction so if anything should ever happen whilst you are in Japan relationship wise, and I sincerely hope it doesn't, you will have virtually have no leeway in the courts their, and your visa will also expired and will not be allowed to be renewed..

get you and your child out FAST or it WILL be to late..

 

[Mars Man]

A tough call, indeed...

As far as I have learned from other sources, the matter of custody, in case of a negative turn, is very much in favor of the Japanese national--as made clear in the above posts.

Middle names may be a hassle, but are usually ignored--as in that of my middle son. (who, by the way, is the only son who has a middle name out our three sons...get it?! elbow, elbow middle son...middle name...har, har, har... and so much for icy humor....{the event was not on purpose}

My wife (Japanese national) change to my family name. That too, was not on purpose (planned) but happened as result of an error and a tight situation in which doing so was expedient for her green card before we went State side for a short while back in '92.

I do not give so much value to the family name system other than for identification, and since when I moved into this family it was found out that it was illegal for me to take ownership rights to the family land (a fairly big chunk of soil if you include the part up on the mountianside) so we had decided upon getting married to not change our family names.

So...all of carry the family name 'Carter' now (maybe I am kin to Rudel san?) My oldest son has moved out, works full time for Softbank, and will be entering college from April. He seems to have had no problem with Carter--his first name is exactly Japanese, using kanji (but sounds very, very close to a kind of common English name). My middle son elbow, elbow has an exactly English name and writes it in katakana...so far no problem...and his middle name is the Japanese family name. Our third son has a first name which can be both English and Japanese, and is registered in kanji.

I really think, now, Dutch Baka san, that all the details are out here on the table pretty much. The only ones who can make the choice are you and your little lady. While I do not feel comfortable telling you that I think you should do this...or I think you should do that... regarding the naming of your upcoming addition to the human world, I am always here to help out in taking care of, educating, and raising your child in the way of an internationally minded world citizen. As much as they are my biological and environmental children, they are individual human beings...regardless of family name.

 

[Davey]

Well, I was talking to my mother about this yesterday about a possible option of taking her family name... and yeah she got pretty pissed about it. (I can't blame her, but if I would change my family name... I hope she can respect it.)

I also found out some information that I can add my wife her name to my name. Which would probably the best thing... but does that also mean that my wife and my child will get 2 last names. Anyway, I am going to do some more research about this the upcoming weeks/ months.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Annubis]

My last name has a highphen

Hello Dutch Baka,

My mother is from a Traditional catholic French family background. My father on the otherhand comes from a Scottish background. When they got married, both my parent's kept their last names and I got both. I have to admit, I've spent my life explaining the pronunciation of both names, since they are both in different languages and when I get married it will be a relief to get rid of my name all together...HAHA imagine a child with two highphens in their last name...HAHA

I may keep my last name, though, because it represents my herritage. It says that I am both French and Scottish. There is pride in that!

 

[Mr Sweetfish]

huhh, i dunnow, i'd kill for a japanese family name ..... i dun like my real family name..

 

[live1]

i know this reply is late but it may help any fool who wants to take the same decision i did.
my wife is japanese.when we got married i thought it would be a good idea for her to keep her maiden name to make it easier on our kids and her in future .when we had our kids we hyphenated our family names in our kids' foreign passports to connect it to their jp register.
At school, our kids only use her maiden name so they are only used to that family name .when my kids are asked their names either in japan or abroad ofcourse they only use their jp family name.you can imagine the confusion and embarassment it creates .my family name only comes in when they are reminded.
if i want to rectify it ,i will have to go to court and change our koseki.
your family name may be difficult to pronunce in japan but the earlier your kids get used to it the sooner they may feel it is part of them.i am proud of my kids but i think (i may be wrong)every guy feels proud when his kid uses his family name.
Anyway, I am married to a Japanese and we are expecting a baby in June. My wife still has her own family name, and I wonder if we should change it or not. I know that our child will get her family name if we don't change it, but what does it mean for me? For example does it means that if (I hope not) we would divorce that I have no rights because the child does not have the same name as I have...
Of course we can change the name to my Family name: Stokhof, but thinking about the future I think we will be living her for a while (10-30+ years), so having a child and a wife with a family name would maybe be easier for them.
Any official links (Japanese is fine), and advice, experience would be great![/QUOTE]

 

[Glenski]

It doesn't matter if your kids have your family name or your wife's in the case of a divorce. Fathers usually never get any visitation rights anyway.