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Getting married and changing surnames

Keiichi

Hi
9 Mar 2003
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It's been a while since I've posted on here! I've came upon a dilemma, which I've read several posts on but couldn't find a clear answer.

I'm (male) a US citizen and my soon to be wife is a Japanese national. We're both currently in the US, and she is currently staying here under a temporary visa, and we are expecting a child by the end of 2009. Although the location of birth is still pending for us (and may not matter for this situation), we do intend to get married in the US and stay in the US for some extended length of time.

Although family names are not very important for me, I have many obligations under my surname in the US (e.g. banks, jobs, mortgage, home title), as much as possible I would like to keep my surname and have my wife use mine and use her Japanese surname as a maiden name, which, of course is common. This means our "official" surname would be mine, as least in the US.
We do not want a barreled-surname, or whatever it's called (e.g. Nakagawa-Smith), to be used anywhere.

We may decide to live in Japan in the future, and the problem is I want her and our children to be able to use her Japanese surname in Japan also to use in everyday life in Japan. It's okay even if important official documents, like passport, will have her official (my) surname listed.

Basically, I'm asking whether it's possible for all of us (wife, children and I) to have my surname used officially in the US (and anywhere else), yet, allow my wife and children (I don't care about mine) to continue to use a Japanese surname in Japan in everyday life. If possible, officially.

Also, I'm wondering whether it can be official, because her family only has daughters, and if possible, I would like her to continue in her family registry (koseki). I do not mind, if even possible, for myself being listed as my foreign surname or under her Japanese surname in the koseki. I'm not sure how the koseki works and I know all this sounds a bit contradictory for her to marry into my family and yet I want her to be able to continue her family koseki. But just wondering. Although this is not very important as allowing the use of their Japanese surname in everyday life while in Japan as mentioned in the prior paragraph.

Despite Japan not allowing middle names, I've read that Japanese citizens can have some kind of legal alias name registered in Japan. If true, in this case, it would be her Japanese surname if she switches to using mine officially. Is this true?

I'm wondering if anyone can help me clarify anything here and if any of these situations are possible?
Thanks!
 
She should contact the ward office where her koseki tohon is located and ask. I don't think this will be possible, but who knows? If you live in Japan, the marriage will have to be registered with a ward office or city hall, and that will include showing a translated version of your marriage license. They will probably use the name there, but I am not sure if they will simply ask if she wants to officially (in Japan, that is) change to your surname. She will have 6 months to do so if you get married here, but I don't know what happens in your case. In any case, whatever you decide at that point, it will go into her new koseki (family now includes your kids and you as dependents).

Some women use their maiden names in the office, but use their married surnames for the official things (drivers' license, passport, credit card). Using a maiden name in the office is usually done after they have been working there and got married while still working there, thus alleviating the confusion with coworkers. If your wife wants to get married first and THEN get a job, that's different, but ask at the ward office whether she can do what you want.

You might want to ask the people on the Yahoo listserv here.
Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos
 
Thanks for the reply Glenski, and for the link to the Yahoo forum! I'll check it out afterwards.

It does sound like something will go on her koseki since it appears to be a required document for our marriage, it seems, according to her friend who's also a Japanese national with a US national spouse.
My fiancee's going back to Japan to get it and have it translated at a Japanese consulate here in the US (if it couldn't be done back in Japan within a short time). I'll tell her to ask the ward about those things regarding surnames when she has the chance back in Japan.

A bit off topic, but regarding registering your marriage in your home country. If we get married here in the US, does she have to register her marriage within some period of time back in Japan? (I guess I can tell her to inquire about that also.) Likewise, Glenski, did you register your marriage immediately with the US after getting married in Japan? (I apologize if this is incorrect, this was assuming that this was your scenario.)
 
Her koseki can be sent by airmail.She doesn`t have to go to Japan and take it in person.Most of kosekis are sent by post even inside Japan.Almost nobody takes this paper by him/herself.She gives you a rather weird excuse to visit Japan.The rest of answers you need you will find on websites (start with three w..):
international-divorce.com/family_reg_law.htm
and here even more than you asked. (Read it carefully.This stuff is more useful than you might think now):
crnjapan.com/marriage/en/marriageprocedures.html
A husband whose wife is keeping her maiden name after marriage is called "muko yoshi" in Japan.They also have a very old proverb:
"Until you have a bowl of rice, do not go to muko yoshi"
 
I swore I responded to this post yesterday, but it's not there. ><

Thank you for the links. They were very helpful and I've understand several things a lot better now. My fiancee is not going back to Japan mainly for the purpose of obtaining the koseki. She already had the reservations made well before she found out she was pregnant and decided to get married. All this just coincided at around the same time, which may be convenient also as she has to obtain her medical records also. Perhaps that could be mailed also? But also she's a bit yearning to see her parents.

So regarding the koseki, if I understood it correctly, we would have to establish a new family register with our full names. Sorry, the website is laid out in that law format is difficult to understand.

And regarding registering our marriage in Japan, if I'm correct, we'd have to do it within 3 months of getting married, but we can do so at the Japanese embassy here in the US.
I'll give that Japan Children's Rights Network website more read, as it seems to provide a lot about things that I've never even came across or think about.

Thanks again for the reference.
 
Yes, I can do it at the Japanese embassy in the States.
She will have to establish her new koseki after marriage where she will be a householder, then future kids go, at the bottom any foreigners in the family (spouses) will be listed.
In Japan people can have only two names in koseki: family name and first name.All Japanese nationals in koseki (foregners don`t count, even if they are listed there) can have only the same name.It means if she keeps her maiden name after marriage, your kids will get her maiden name but not yours, father`s name.If you want your kids have your, father`s name, she has to take your name too.If you are getting married not in Japan, she can take a double name, for examle Tanaka-Smith (that would not be possible if you got married in Japan).But in koseki this double family name will be written in Japanese as one word- family name: Tanakasmith.The same your kids will get.There is also one more options available.If she wants to keep her maiden name, does not want to take yours and does not want to take a double name, but you both want your kids have their father`s name, you can start a new koseki for a child where this infant will be a householder (sounds crazy but that is how it works) with father`s name, and the parents will be listed with their names.It is rather rare procedure and some Japanese public servants don`t even know well how to do it.But you can insist and make them work.It is not impossible.
If you are thinking about living in Japan, this link is popular among foreign community in Japan (it is about everything regarding life in Japan for foreigners).Statrs with three w..
debito.org
 
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand it. I'm going to talk with my fiancee about our options and what she wants.

One thing for sure is that we will not use the double-name, so we'll cross that option out.

Would it also mean that even if she uses my surname as her official surname in the US, she can still use her Japanese surname in the koseki? I mean, when we register our marriage in Japan at the embassy, that's where we will have to register our official names in Japan, if I'm correct. Does the name in the koseki have to be the same as our official name?
 
A bit off topic, but regarding registering your marriage in your home country. If we get married here in the US, does she have to register her marriage within some period of time back in Japan?
No.

Likewise, Glenski, did you register your marriage immediately with the US after getting married in Japan? (I apologize if this is incorrect, this was assuming that this was your scenario.)
I got married in Japan and have not done anything to register it in the USA.

You will have to apply for a social security number for your wife (and any children when they come), so you can write it on your U.S. taxes, though. Apply ASAP because it takes a while. [Actually, it's called a Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN), but it serves the same purpose.]
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96696,00.html
 
Would it also mean that even if she uses my surname as her official surname in the US, she can still use her Japanese surname in the koseki? I mean, when we register our marriage in Japan at the embassy, that's where we will have to register our official names in Japan, if I'm correct. Does the name in the koseki have to be the same as our official name?
I'm willing to bet the ward office says yes. Koseki is as official as it gets in Japan, and she should darned well know it!
 
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand it. I'm going to talk with my fiancee about our options and what she wants.
One thing for sure is that we will not use the double-name, so we'll cross that option out.
Would it also mean that even if she uses my surname as her official surname in the US, she can still use her Japanese surname in the koseki? I mean, when we register our marriage in Japan at the embassy, that's where we will have to register our official names in Japan, if I'm correct. Does the name in the koseki have to be the same as our official name?
Her official name for the US government is the name in her Japanese passport.All her official US documents (taxes,insurances,lisenses,etc.) will be issued under the name in her passport.Her passport was/is/will be issued under the SAME name as in her koseki by Japanese government.As she is not a US citizen, she cannot change her official name under US laws.The US government is simply not in power to issue a new Japanese passport for her.She can change her official name only under Japanese laws- change it in koseki.She can use alias (husband`s name) for her private use in the US.But her official US documents will be under the name in her Japanese passport: if it is Japanese- it will be Japanese; if she takes your name- it will be your name.
 
let's talk, I deeply appreciate your explanation. I'd like to try to put it into my scenario. Please correct me along the way if something you see is incorrect.

(I swap name/surname ordering also depending on whether I'm talking about US or Japan)

-----

We will get married in the US and she will use my surname here in the US. (e.g. Aiko Tanaka Smith, where Tanaka is a middle name). On her Japanese passport, she will change (in Japan or Japanese embassy) her display name to something like: Tanaka Aiko (Smith), where Smith is something like a legal alias but not an official surname (<-- correct me here if you can).

We will then register our marriage in Japan. She will be listed like her Japanese passport: Tanaka Aiko (Smith)
(How would I be listed? I'm not a Japanese citizen.)

All her documents in the US will read like her Japanese passport, Aiko Tanaka Smith, or just Aiko Smith on other less important documents.
Her official documents in Japan will/can continue to read Tanaka Aiko. (Or does "Smith" have to go in there somewhere?)

Her Japanese Koseki will read: Tanaka Aiko (does/will "Smith" be included somewhere?)
Our children will go under the Koseki with something like: Tanaka Keitarou or Tanaka John [in kanji/katakana] (we haven't decided on names yet)
In the US, the children's name would be like Keitarou Smith or John Smith (should "Tanaka" go in there somewhere, like middle name?)

---

Did I get the ordering wrong? Does the change in the koseki come first, or the change in passport come first?
Again, thank you for your time and cooperation. I would very appreciate it if you could correct my scenario, if possible.
 
We will get married in the US and she will use my surname here in the US. (e.g. Aiko Tanaka Smith, where Tanaka is a middle name). On her Japanese passport, she will change (in Japan or Japanese embassy) her display name to something like: Tanaka Aiko (Smith), where Smith is something like a legal alias but not an official surname (<-- correct me here if you can).
She cannot have a name in parentheses. It's either Tanaka or Tanakasmith. Probably same on the koseki.

Personally, I think you want your cake and want to eat it, too, and I just don't think that's going to be possible. Let us know what happens.
 
let's talk, I deeply appreciate your explanation. I'd like to try to put it into my scenario. Please correct me along the way if something you see is incorrect.
(I swap name/surname ordering also depending on whether I'm talking about US or Japan)
-----
We will get married in the US and she will use my surname here in the US. (e.g. Aiko Tanaka Smith, where Tanaka is a middle name). On her Japanese passport, she will change (in Japan or Japanese embassy) her display name to something like: Tanaka Aiko (Smith), where Smith is something like a legal alias but not an official surname (<-- correct me here if you can).
We will then register our marriage in Japan. She will be listed like her Japanese passport: Tanaka Aiko (Smith)
(How would I be listed? I'm not a Japanese citizen.)
All her documents in the US will read like her Japanese passport, Aiko Tanaka Smith, or just Aiko Smith on other less important documents.
Her official documents in Japan will/can continue to read Tanaka Aiko. (Or does "Smith" have to go in there somewhere?)
Her Japanese Koseki will read: Tanaka Aiko (does/will "Smith" be included somewhere?)
Our children will go under the Koseki with something like: Tanaka Keitarou or Tanaka John [in kanji/katakana] (we haven't decided on names yet)
In the US, the children's name would be like Keitarou Smith or John Smith (should "Tanaka" go in there somewhere, like middle name?)
---
Did I get the ordering wrong? Does the change in the koseki come first, or the change in passport come first?
Again, thank you for your time and cooperation. I would very appreciate it if you could correct my scenario, if possible.
It will not happen.There is no middle name and no parentheses in Japanese passport.She can be either Tanaka, or Smith, or Tanakasmith.Not Tanaka Smith and not Tanaka (Smith).In US official documents her name will be the same as in her Japanese passport.There is no such a thing as to use different names in different countries for one country passport holders.She can change her name within six months after marriage without Family court leave.She can give the notification about changing her name to the Japanese embassy, usually together with the marriage notification.Her name in koseki will be changed and after that she will get a new Japanese passport under her new name in the Japanese embassy in the US.If she fails to change her name within six months after marriage, she can do it only through the Family court procedure.It is not complicated, it usually takes about an hour.But she can do it only in Japan as there is not Japanese family court in the US.After you register your marriage in the Japanese embassy, she will be listed as a "head" in her koseki and you will be listed at the bottom as her spouse.Foreigners cannot be listed as "heads" in koseki.Your kids can get a dual citizenship.In Japan they will get the same family name as a "head" in koseki (your wife in your case).If she keeps her maiden name, kids will get her maiden name, not yours, father`s name.If she takes your surname, so will the kids.If she chooses Tanakasmith, the kids will get also Tanakasmith.But in their American passports they can be what you choose: John Smith, or John Tanaka Smith, or whatever.In case of dual citizenship names in different passports are not related to each other and can be absolutely different.
If you were a US citizen with the surname Sato or Suzuki, she would take your family name without any hesitations because it sounds Japanese.She does not want to take your surname because it is not Japanese.Why are some Japanese girls ashamed or embarrassed to take sounds-non-Japanese husband`s name but not ashamed or embarrassed to get pregnant and to get married to the guys with non-Japanese names, is their dirty secret.
 
...
If you were a US citizen with the surname Sato or Suzuki, she would take your family name without any hesitations because it sounds Japanese.She does not want to take your surname because it is not Japanese.Why are some Japanese girls ashamed or embarrassed to take sounds-non-Japanese husband`s name but not ashamed or embarrassed to get pregnant and to get married to the guys with non-Japanese names, is their dirty secret.

At least, it is in Katakana that the family name of a J wife and her kid is the example of certificate of birth to the J embassy in your country below, though I don't know how many Americans have "Last" as their last name.
http://www.us.emb-japan.go.jp/j/html/todoke/todoke_sample2.htm

Your partner is more important than anonymous "some".
 
In your situation, I would adopt your wife's surname. It would make things easier if you ever plan on living in Japan. Here in the United States, you said that you have a lot of things tied up with your last name, so changing your name would be a big inconvenience, but I will still do it. At least, in the USA, no one blinks twice if your surname is sato or yamada. But in Japan, smith or anderson can cause friction. Choose the path of least resistance. Go with your wife's name.
 
In your situation, I would adopt your wife's surname. It would make things easier if you ever plan on living in Japan. Here in the United States, you said that you have a lot of things tied up with your last name, so changing your name would be a big inconvenience, but I will still do it. At least, in the USA, no one blinks twice if your surname is sato or yamada. But in Japan, smith or anderson can cause friction. Choose the path of least resistance. Go with your wife's name.

Right. In the US no one blinks twice if they see a white guy or a black guy named Sato or Yamada. Nor in Japan does anyone blink twice if they see a white guy or black guy named Sato or Yamada. But if they saw a white guy or a black guy named Smith or Anderson that would just upset them horribly. Any problems that might arise for such a person would be smoothed over by their having a Japanese name. That would save the person from having to answer the "Oh, your name is Anderson? By any chance are you a foreigner?" question a million times. If he changes his name to Yamada everyone will just assume he is Japanese and not a word will be said.

That's some real sage advice you gave, we need more of that around here.
 
Right. In the US no one blinks twice if they see a white guy or a black guy named Sato or Yamada.
Right. Most Americans have no idea that these are even Japanese names! It might raise a question or two if that Black American lived in Kansas, but a black man in Kansas has more to worry about than his last name.
Nor in Japan does anyone blink twice if they see a white guy or black guy named Sato or Yamada.
If you are speaking on phone in fluent Japanese (with no accent) and it comes time to tell your surname, I think I rather say 'Sato' if I was on the phone with the Japanese police. You tell me Mike. I will defer to you since you know much more about Japan than me.
But if they saw a white guy or a black guy named Smith or Anderson that would just upset them horribly. Any problems that might arise for such a person would be smoothed over by their having a Japanese name.
If you are foreigner who is committed to living in Japan permanently and you are considering raising children here and contributing to Japanese society, then I think adopting the surname of your Japanese spouse is a nice gesture in keeping with those goals. This is a personal decision and it will not solve the problems that you will encounter as a foreigner. Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but perhaps some Japanese, including your Japanese in-laws, would appreciate that a foreigner is doing so.
 
Come on now.......

Absolutely. I would bet my life on it. If pressed, most Americans would probably guess that these names are Spanish in origin. Very few would correctly say 'Japanese'.

Most Americans could not locate Japan on a map. Americans do not travel overseas as much as others and when it comes to surnames, they can be clueless.
 
Absolutely. I would bet my life on it. If pressed, most Americans would probably guess that these names are Spanish in origin. Very few would correctly say 'Japanese'.
Most Americans could not locate Japan on a map. Americans do not travel overseas as much as others and when it comes to surnames, they can be clueless.

Well now you're pushing it...I'm pretty sure people can at least get the hemisphere right, I don't know anyone who doesn't know where Japan is...but I sort of agree on "Sato", can maybe be European or something like that. "Yamada" is pretty clear-cut Asian, to be honest.

If you were a US citizen with the surname Sato or Suzuki, she would take your family name without any hesitations because it sounds Japanese.She does not want to take your surname because it is not Japanese.Why are some Japanese girls ashamed or embarrassed to take sounds-non-Japanese husband`s name but not ashamed or embarrassed to get pregnant and to get married to the guys with non-Japanese names, is their dirty secret.

This made me laugh and I'm gonna rep you for this. Is this really true?

Right. In the US no one blinks twice if they see a white guy or a black guy named Sato or Yamada. Nor in Japan does anyone blink twice if they see a white guy or black guy named Sato or Yamada. But if they saw a white guy or a black guy named Smith or Anderson that would just upset them horribly. Any problems that might arise for such a person would be smoothed over by their having a Japanese name. That would save the person from having to answer the "Oh, your name is Anderson? By any chance are you a foreigner?" question a million times. If he changes his name to Yamada everyone will just assume he is Japanese and not a word will be said.

That's some real sage advice you gave, we need more of that around here.

Little...dickish, man.
 
interested

Congratulations on your engagement and child :)

I am afraid I do not know much and the us system but I am interested if you do not mind to see how this turns out.
Good luck to you both, I think like the other well said advise others have given states, you should go by their advise.
Their advise appears to be consistant.

Yours

Shiko K
 
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