My grammar questions

Mike Cash · 14 Sep 2016

Zuba said:

Every juggler drops a ball now and then.

Zuba · 14 Sep 2016

I just want to say thanks to all of you for helping me out so much. Recommending Genki, answering all my questions, and supporting me. I really do appreciate it. :notworthy:

Zuba · 16 Sep 2016

こんにちは。皆さんは元気ですか。私は元気です。今日は明日も休みです。

Today I learned how the past affirmative can be the present perfect and past. The way to tell the two apart seems to be certain words and context.

先週の木曜日に私宿題を勉強しました。 I studied my homework last Thursday. This action is done and is not connected to the present.
ケンさんは車をもう洗いました。Ken already washed the car. This is connected to the present. I am not sure what the exact implications of this difference are. Could someone please explain a little?

Next is how to form the difference when negative. The ている form is used for the present progressive form.

私は寿司を食べませんでした。I did not eat sushi. This is not connected to the present.
私は公園で寿司を食べていません。I have not eaten sushi in the park yet. Again, this form is connected the present.

Next is how to form relative clauses. You just form a clause and attach it to a noun. The verb must be in the short form.

大学の前で本を読んでいる男の人は私の友達です。The man reading a book in the front of the college is my friend.
手紙を書いていた先生はスーパーに行く。The teacher writing a letter will go the the supermarket.
目が大きい女は日本人です。The woman with big eyes is Japanese.
My question is can I combine the third sentence's attribute clause with a normal clause?
眼鏡をかけている、髪が長い女の人は買い物に行っていない。The woman wearing glasses, with long hair, has not gone shopping yet..

And the last thing for today is about から. It means "because" or, more closely, "therefore." The reason comes first then the result. It can be used with both the long and short form, but it must be the same throughout the whole sentence. If the first part is short then the last must also be. The long form makes から more polite and is used to make requests and suggestions.

今は寒いですから、一緒に豚カツをたべましょうか。 It is cold, therefore shall we eat tonkatsu?
私は明日英語を見に行くから、暇じゃない。I am going to see a movie tomorrow, therefore I am not free.

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 17 Sep 2016

Zuba said:
先週の木曜日に私宿題を勉強しました。 I studied my homework last Thursday. This action is done and is not connected to the present.
ケンさんは車をもう洗いました。Ken already washed the car. This is connected to the present. I am not sure what the exact implications of this difference are. Could someone please explain a little?

先週の木曜日に私は宿題をしました。
宿題を勉強しました can be understandable, but sounds awkward.

The temporal adverbs are the key. The former sentence is just a description of a past event, but in the latter one, もう suggests that he needs to wash the car by today and already did it, for instance. In these cases, 洗いました is more likely the perfect tense rather than past. And this is exactly the reason why ～ている form appears in 私は公園で寿司を食べていません。.

Zuba said:
目が大きい女は日本人です。

女の人 is appropriate to avoid sounding rude.

Mike Cash · 17 Sep 2016

Zuba said:
今日は明日も休みです。

今日も明日も
Or
今日と明日は

Zuba said:
私は明日英語を見に行くから、暇じゃない。I am going to see a movie tomorrow, therefore I am not free.

映画 not 英語

This kind of mistake is incredibly easy to make. Between this kind of error and the kind where we just assume the computer picked the right kanji for us, it is important to get into the habit of double checking.

Zuba · 17 Sep 2016

どうもありがとうございます。

It looks like I got the grammar down. I will make sure to double check to avoid using the wrong kanji.

Zuba · 19 Sep 2016

おはようございます。皆さんは元気ですか。私は元気です。

I learned how to make comparisons. The format is AのほうがＢよりproperty. Apparently in spoken Japanese this order is reversed.

電車のほうが車より早いと思います。I think trains are faster than cars.
野菜と肉とどっちが安いですか。Which is cheaper, vegetables or meat?
中国とアメリカと韓国の中でどっちが一番大きいですか。Which is the biggest, China, America, or Korea?
アメリカが一番大きいです。America is the biggest. I am fairly certain that China is actually bigger.

Next I learned how a noun can be replaced with の when it is obvious what the speaker is talking about. This appears to only work when the noun is after a adjective or another noun.

私は黒い靴下を持っています。白いのも持っています。I have black socks. I also have white ones.
私の鞄は机の下にあります。いいえ、ズバさんの、ここにあります。My bad is under the desk. No it is here.

I also learned about つもり to say that you have the intention to do X or not do X.

日本に行くつもりでしたけど、お金がないから、行きません。I intended to go to Japan, but I have not money, therefore I will not go.
来週私はケンさんとラーメン屋に食べに行くつもりだ。Next week I intend to go and eat at the ramen shop with Ken.

Next is なる which attaches to adjectives and nouns and means "To become X" and shows a change.

先週キムさんは給仕になったと思います。I think Kim became a waitress last week.
この鞄は前より重くなりました。This bag is heavier than before.
私は数学が好きになりました。I have grown fond of math. One note is that when なる is used with adjectives the change is ambiguous. It can be either absolute or relative. You need to specify. I know you can use the comparision format, like in my second example, to make it relative, but I am not sure how to make it absolute.

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 19 Sep 2016

Zuba said:
中国とアメリカと韓国の中でどっちが一番大きいですか。

It should be どれ or どの国が一番大きいですか. どっちが is for comparing two things, and can't be used for three or more things.

Zuba said:
いいえ、ズバさんの、ここにあります。... No it is here.

Do you mean いいえ、ズバさんのはここにありません。 (No, Zuba's is not here)?

Zuba said:
来週私はケンさんとラーメン屋に食べに行くつもりだ。

来週私はケンさんとラーメン屋に行くつもりだ。
来週私はケンさんとラーメンを食べに行くつもりだ。
来週私はケンさんとラーメン屋に餃子を食べに行くつもりだ。

It's common to go to a ramen shop and eat something (mostly ramen) there, ラーメン屋に食べに行く sounds somewhat repetitious. If what you are going to eat is not ramen, you need to mention it.

Zuba said:
I know you can use the comparision format, like in my second example, to make it relative, but I am not sure how to make it absolute.

Isn't there any example in the book?

Zuba · 19 Sep 2016

どうもありがとうございます。

いいえ、ズバさんのはここにありません。Yes, I meant to put that. Oops.

The use of どっち is something I did not know. Thanks a ton for that piece of info.

There are no examples on how to make a absolute statement using なる. There was a example on how to use it relatively. Which is how I made my second sentence.

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 20 Sep 2016

What is the exact explanation about that usage in the textbook?

Zuba · 20 Sep 2016

こんばんは。皆さんは元気ですか。私は元気です。

"When a adjective is used with naru, a question arises whether the sentence describes an absolute change or a relative change. naru sentences are ambiguous in isolation. If you want to make clear that you are talking in relative terms, you can use the pattern for comparison with naru." That is from the book.

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post was that I learned how to use で to indicate the tool by which you do something.

私はテレビで映画を見ます。I will watch a movie on the TV.
サムさんは車で会社に行きます。Sam goes to the company by car.
髪が長い男の人は鉛筆で作文を書いています。The man with the long hair is writing the essay with a pencil
私は歩いてスーパーに切符を買いに行きます。I will go to the super market on food to buy stamps. The 歩いて now makes sense to me. It is basically turning 歩く into the て form which is acting like the で to mark "by what means."

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 20 Sep 2016

Google returns this site that contains an example.
Japanese Grammar - Грамматика Японский - I - 10-04
すっかり暖かくなったので、もう雪は降らないだろう。
前より暖かくなったけど、まだ肌寒い。
Hmm, I don't think the difference is significant.

Zuba · 21 Sep 2016

どうもありがとうございます。

That is good, I will just not worry about it too much then.

じゃ、また。

Zuba · 26 Sep 2016

こんにちは。皆さんは元気ですか。

I learned about たい today. It attaches to the stem form of verbs and is used to say what you want to do. It cannot be used for others. It conjugates like a I-adjective.

私は野菜を食べたくありません。I do not want to eat vegetables.
私は歩いて家から図書館まで行ったから、疲れました。水を飲みたいです。Because I went from my house to the library on foot I am tired. I want to drink water.

If you want to show that you have had the desire for a long time use と思っています

私は日本に行きたいと思っています。I want to go to Japan.

If you want to talk about other you must use たがる, which attaches to the stem form of the verb.

サムさんは寿司を食べただっています。Sam wants to eat sushi.

One question I have is that it says I can replace the を with a が when using the たい form. What would be the difference if I did that?

Next is たり. This is formed by just adding り to the short past form of a verb. It is used when listing activities and shows that the things listed are just examples and not a exhaustive list. For the last verb you place する . This is used to indicate the tense of the sentence.

明日私は東京でお茶を書いたり、寿司を食べたりします。Tomorrow I buy tea in Tokyo and eat sushi, among other things.

Can I list more than just two activities with たり?

Next is when a verb in the short past form is followed by ことがある. This shows that you did X or something happened in a earlier time.

寿司をあ食べたことがありますか。 Have you eaten sushi before?
飛行機に乗ったことがりません。 I have not been on a airplane before.

And lastly is や. Which seems to be used just like たり for nouns. It shows a incomplete list of nouns. And the items listed are examples.

私は花や木を見に行きます。I will go see flowers and trees, among other things.

Can I list more than two items with や?

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 26 Sep 2016

just typos

Zuba said:
サムさんは寿司を食べただっています。

サムさんは寿司を食べたがっています。

Zuba said:
明日私は東京でお茶を書いたり

明日私は東京でお茶を買ったり

Zuba said:
寿司をあ食べたことがありますか。

寿司を食べたことがありますか。(あ is unnecessary.)

Zuba said:
飛行機に乗ったことがりません。

飛行機に乗ったことがありません。(あ is necessary.)

Zuba said:
One question I have is that it says I can replace the を with a が when using the たい form. What would be the difference if I did that?

が sometimes has an emphasized/contrastive nuance; "not any other drinks but water", "not any other foods but vegetables", for instance.

Zuba said:
Can I list more than just two activities with たり?

Zuba said:
Can I list more than two items with や?

Yes and yes.

mdchachi · 26 Sep 2016

I'll answer although I could be wrong. Other members will correct me if I am.

Zuba said:
One question I have is that it says I can replace the を with a が when using the たい form. What would be the difference if I did that?

I don't think there's a big difference but I think using が emphasizes the object. To me
水が飲みたい sounds like you want to drink water specifically. While
水を飲みたい sounds like you want to drink water but would be open to drinking something else.
But like I said, I could be wrong.

Zuba said:
Can I list more than just two activities with たり?

Zuba said:
Can I list more than two items with や?

Yes to both but it sounds somewhat childish way of speaking if you go overboard with it. The only time I've encountered this is in (young) children's books.

Zuba · 4 Oct 2016

どうもありがとございます。

おはようございます。皆さんは元気ですか。私は元気です。

Sorry I have not been on for a while. I was sick. :yuck: But I feel much better now!

I read that in a negative sentence you will often find は where を or が would be. It says this is done because it is natural to have at least one は in a negative sentence.

涼子さんはお茶を飲みますか。 Would you like to drink some tea, Ryouko?
いいえ、お茶は飲みたくありません。No, I do not want to drink tea. Or 私はお茶を飲みたくありません。There is a は in this one so there is no need to replace the を.

Next is だけ, which follows amounts, it shows that that number of items is just enough, but the amount could have been more.

私は紙を二枚だけ持っています。I have two sheets of paper.
お菓子を四個だけ食べました。I ate four pieces of candy.

Next is に which can mark the occasion you do something or the role you want something to fulfill.

祭りに浴衣着ます。I will wear a yukata at the festival.
同窓会に眼鏡をかけません。I will not wear glasses at the reunion.
運動に仕事に歩いて行きます。I go to work on foot for exercise.
練習に日本の歌を聞きます。I listen to Japanese songs for practice.

And finally is には when used with places. When you put は after に it changes the meaning subtly. With the はthe sentence is about the place.

家には犬と猫がいます。There are cats and dogs at my house.
あの混んでいる料理店には優しい給仕がいます。At that busy restaurant there are nice servers.

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 4 Oct 2016

お大事に。

Zuba said:
I read that in a negative sentence you will often find は where を or が would be. It says this is done because it is natural to have at least one は in a negative sentence.

涼子さんはお茶を飲みますか。 Would you like to drink some tea, Ryouko?
いいえ、お茶は飲みたくありません。No, I do not want to drink tea. Or 私はお茶を飲みたくありません。There is a は in this one so there is no need to replace the を.

Probably the explanation is for usual sentences. As for answers, it's common not to repeat things already known, i.e., いいえ、飲みたくありません is the most common, お茶は or 私は unnecessarily emphasizes the topic, and therefore は works as a contrastive marker as a result (e.g. "I don't want to drink tea, but need some other drinks", "I don't want to drink tea, but my partner wants to drink it").

Zuba said:
祭りに浴衣着ます。I will wear a yukata at the festival.

祭りに浴衣を着ます。

Zuba said:
同窓会に眼鏡をかけません。I will not wear glasses at the reunion.

に doesn't work well with 同窓会. It should be 同窓会に行くときに or something like that.

Zuba said:
運動に仕事に歩いて行きます。I go to work on foot for exercise.

運動のために歩いて仕事に行きます。

Zuba said:
練習に日本の歌を聞きます。I listen to Japanese songs for practice.

日本語の練習に日本の歌を聞きます。

As you can see these examples above, there is a limitation where に works well in that function.

Zuba · 4 Oct 2016

どうもありがとうございます。

It seems using は instead of が or を has more meaning then I am aware of.

に does not work as simply as I thought. This was just a quick notes sections at the end of my lesson and I am sure they will cover all this in more detail later on.

At least two of the points I covered are correct.

じゃ、また。

Zuba · 19 Oct 2016

おはようございます。皆さんは元気ですか。私は元気です。
Hi, everyone. Sorry I have been gone for a couple of weeks. People left work and things were really crazy for a while.

I learned about んです today. It seems that when you answer with just です or the polite form of verbs this is just making a statement, and does not really have much emotion. When you add んです it explains and seems to give emotion.

明日テストがありました。I had a test yesterday.
明日テストがあったんです。I had a test yesterday. From what I gather this one gives more emotion and can be used if someone where to ask you what you did yesterday.

私はアイリさんと映画を見に行きます。I will go see a movie with Airi.
私はアイリさんと映画を見に行くんです。I will go and see a movie with Airi. Again I think by adding んです it seems to add more emotion and nuanced meaning depending on the context.

どうしてその魚を食べなかったんですか。Why did you not eat that fish?
アレルギーがあるんです。I have allergies to fish.

It says that in written Japanese のです is used instead of んです and in casual speech んだ is used.

Next is すぎる which attaches to the stem form of verbs and adjectives and means "too much or to excess." I think it has a negative nuance to it.

あの車は高すぎるんです。That car is too expensive.
よしさんは寝すぎるから、遅刻します。Because Yoshi sleeps too much he is late.

ほうがいいです follows verbs and is used when the speaker is giving a specific piece of advice to do or not to do X and if not done a negative result will occur. What is interesting is that to give a affirmative piece of advice ほうがいい follows the plain past form of the verb.

今料理店はにぎやかじゃないから、掃除したほうがいいです。 Because the restaurant is not busy not you should clean.
これを食べないほうがいいです。どうしてんですか。美味しすぎるんです。You should not eat this. Why? It is too delicious.

ので works just like から to mean "because." It is was only stated that ので sounds slightly more formal.

明日は休みなので、寝ません。 Because tomorrow is a holiday I will not sleep.

In the book the reason is always in the short form and the cause or result is always in the long form. Could I make the reason part long form as well?

Now up is ちゃいけません which comes after the short negative form of verbs in the their く form. This is used to say something must be done.

サムさんは帰らなくちゃいけませんね。You need to go home, right Sam?
家は汚すぎるので、家事しなくちゃいけないんです。Because the house is too dirty, I must clean.

And finally is でしょう. This just follows that short form of verbs, nouns, and adjectives and shows a guess.

あの箱思いでしょう。 That box is probably heavy.
今日ケンさんは図書館に行くでしょう。 Ken will probably go to the library today.

Thanks for all the help! よろしくお願いします。じゃ、また。

Mike Cash · 19 Oct 2016

Zuba said:
明日テストがありました。I had a test yesterday.

Zuba said:
明日は休みなので、寝ません。 Because tomorrow is a holiday I will not sleep.

That 明日 must be like "aloha" for breadth of meaning....

Zuba said:
あの箱思いでしょう。 That box is probably heavy.

思い?

You can't trust the computer to choose the correct kanji for you.

Zuba · 19 Oct 2016

ありがとうございます。

Thanks for spotting my typos. It is funny how I think I wrote everything fine and then all these silly mistakes start surfacing. :roflmao:

じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 19 Oct 2016

Zuba said:
今料理店はにぎやかじゃないから、掃除したほうがいいです。 Because the restaurant is not busy not you should clean.

今、店/レストランは忙しくないから、掃除したほうがいいです。

Zuba said:
どうしてんですか。

どうしてですか。

Zuba said:
ので works just like から to mean "because." It is was only stated that ので sounds slightly more formal.

Here's an explanation about the difference between ので and から.

Need a word or phrase translated? | Page 336 | Japan Forum

Zuba said:
Could I make the reason part long form as well?

Yes, 休みですので and 休みですから are both valid. The former sounds rather polite.

Zuba · 20 Oct 2016

どうもありがとうございます。

Thanks so much! The difference with から and ので now makes sense.

晴れですので、一緒に公園に行きませんか。Since this is a invitation I would not use ので, correct?
晴れですから、一緒に公園に行きませんか。This one is right I think.

One other things is that the short form of でしょう is だろう. Can I use it just like でしょう?

新しいバスは広いでしょう。The new bus is spacious.
新しいバスは広いだろう。

And one last thing is that the book told me that in casual exchanges でしょう is shortened to でしょ and used with a rising intonation and is used to confirm with your partner what you said is correct.

サムさんは料理するのが上手でしょ？You are good at cooking, right Sam?

It seems that this short でしょ act a lot like ね. Do I have the correct understanding of this?

よろしくお願いします。じゃ、また。

Toritoribe · 20 Oct 2016

Yes for ので vs. から and でしょう vs. だろう.

The nuance of でしょ is closer to よね than よ.
e.g.
明日は晴れでしょ？
明日は晴れだろ？
明日は晴れよね？
明日は晴れだよね？
("Noun/Na-adjective + よね" sounds feminine. Male usually uses だよね. でしょ could sound feminine as well, unlike だろ.)

This でしょ often has a nuance of complaint.
e.g.
サムさんは料理するのが上手でしょ？（なのになんで料理しないの？)
You are good at cooking, right Sam? (so why don't you cook?)

Note that sentence final particles are a very very complicated, hard-to-grasp issue for non-native speakers, even for advanced or fluent learners. It's the hardest one, I believe.

My grammar questions

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Sempai

Sempai

松葉解禁

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Sempai

Sempai

松葉解禁

Sempai

松葉解禁

Sempai

松葉解禁

Sempai

Sempai

松葉解禁

Moderator

Sempai

松葉解禁

Sempai

Sempai

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Sempai

松葉解禁

Sempai

松葉解禁

Similar threads