"Must"

[aleku]

Is the a difference between this two sentences ?
Which form is more commonly used in conversation?
Thanks
買わなければ ならない
kawanakereba naranai
買わなくては ならない
kawanakutewa naranai

 

[aleku]

I don't know why the "ku" is being eaten, no matter how many times I tried.

 

[PaulTB]

I don't know why the "ku" is being eaten, no matter how many times I tried.

Actually I found this out. The Vbulletin code includes an option to remove surplus spaces-like characters and similar characters that can otherwise be used to 'bulk up' a post's contents. For example if you just want to reply "Me too!" then you will be told your post is too short, if you replied with "Me too! " then I guess it kills the extra spaces.

Unfortunately there's a glitch which shows up with double-byte Japanese characters (JIS is a disaster, Shift-JIS and EUC both lose a few characters).

There's more details in the 'Test' thread and others but basically for now select Western European Encoding before typing.

Is there a difference between these 2 sentences ?

Not a lot.

Which form is more commonly used in conversation?

Tricky, I'd say the first - but often the form which is _actually_ used in casual conversation would be 買わなきゃ.

買わなければ ならない
kawanakereba naranai

買わなくては ならない
kawanakutewa naranai

 

[Maciamo]

I always use 買わなければ ならない

You can also replace the "naranai" by "ikenai", and I'd also like to know the nuance.

 

[PaulTB]

I always use 買わなければ ならない

You can also replace the "naranai" by "ikenai", and I'd also like to know the nuance.

Well I know the difference in nuance between ならない and いけない... if I can remember which way round it goes

 

[Elizabeth]

Nakute + ikenai/naranai conveys more the sense of having to follow a rule or command, dictate, etc have to do something or else....Do we have to work on Saturdays? Doyoubi ni hatarakanakute wa ikenai no desuka?

(Perhaps more common in the negative, te + ikenai/naranai has this same connotation of not being allowed to do something or be in a certain state, must follow, have to obey. You mustn't smoke in this room. Kono heya de tabako wo sutte wa ikemasen.)

Whereas nakereba ikenai/narnai is closer in nuance to something won't do if left in a particular condition, more like need to do/be, have to do/be, really should do/be. And which you already have an example for.....

 

[fixelbrumpf]

ATricky, I'd say the first - but often the form which is _actually_ used in casual conversation would be 買わなきゃ.

I knew there had to be a "condensed" form. The "good" form they teach you in textbooks really is a bit too long, isn't it? Is the "-なきゃ" inflection where the "nakute" form comes from, by the way?

 

[akihabara]

Wow! you're discussing an extremely advanced issue. Count me in , although I doubt it will help.
In a structure analytical approach, the infoseek on-line dictionary provides us with useful information.

jiten.Infoseek[インフォシーク] - 楽天が運営するポータルサイト

with the keys なければならない、なくてはならない、なくては、ならない、ない、いけない
I think "なければならない" is prefered in formal documents like contract or law related.

I've heard terrible one "買わなきゃない" for "I must buy."
My co-worker (a Japanese) said that.