Long-term visa without job/student qualifiers? (business visa??)

[Majestic]

Do you know a school that exclusively teaches Japanese language for 20+ hours a week? Do you know any schools that are not insanely or prohibitively expensive?

Sorry, I do not know of any off the top of my head. There should be more than a few though. This is where your Google skills will come in handy.

 

[Glenski]

What is wrong with looking for a legitimate, legal way to get into the country that lines up with my personal goals?

Nothing wrong with finding a legitimate way to enter Japan and stay here a few years. The problem, which you don't seem to be catching (and for which you blame our "negativity" instead) is that you really don't seem to have much in the way of "personal goals". All I've seen is that you want to live here and do your online business. When pressed as to why Japan, you only said: "Because I could literally do it anywhere, and then digitally distribute my product worldwide, but I want to relocate to Japan for a while and learn Japanese."

This is a pretty weak excuse. It doesn't answer why Japan vs. any other country (for living here).
It doesn't say why you want to learn Japanese (which you could do for far less effort and expense in the States).

Then you seemed to think of an alternate response, as if to placate us with an altruistic nature:
"How about the fact that either way, I'd be spending my American-made money in another country on rent, food, transportation, etc.? How is this not beneficial to Japan?"
I don't for one minute think you have any aims to benefit Japan's economy with your product. To be frank, I think you just might be enamored in some way with Japanese culture or a Japanese person and want to be here to absorb the culture. You might be an anime freak or a historian or a broken-hearted lover of a Japanese for all we know, but I'm betting something along these lines is your true reason for choosing Japan instead of France, Paraguay, the Philippines, or Egypt.

Would you guys really give so much trouble to someone who only wants to go to Japan, and decides to teach English in Japan to do it?

Apparently you have not read many threads. We get people wanting to come teach English all the time. Some have solid reasons, some want a backdoor to come in for not so solid reasons. But we gladly give advice all the same. For those who don't seem to be taking it seriously, we react appropriately in a negative way, but they are usually the ones who start the downhill trend of the thread.

With regard to a student visa, you seem to have a slightly off way of thinking:
"I read that you have to have 20+ hours a week as a student, and I already have a bachelor's degree. Do you know a school that exclusively teaches Japanese language for 20+ hours a week? Do you know any schools that are not insanely or prohibitively expensive?"

It makes no difference whatsoever that you already have a bachelor's degree! A student visa can be used either for study at a HS/college or a language school (read: language business). The simple fact that those are businesses should up front suggest that they know how many hours are needed to sponsor a student visa. Twenty hours per week is only 4 hours a day in a 5-day system. Peanuts. Please don't expect us to do your research on language schools now. I'm tired of this thread. Do more for yourself. If you ever do get here, I get the feeling you'll want many people to do many things for you, too. Start now. The info on language schools is widely available.

 

[PatrickNZ]

Wow - this is still going. I would restate the last few comments like this:

"There are rules, but I don't want to follow them. How can I come to Japan?"

As people who have done this before, Like Wonko and myself, it is possible, but takes time, effort and money. And follow the rules.

 

[ThatGamerGuy]

(...)you really don't seem to have much in the way of "personal goals". All I've seen is that you want to live here and do your online business. When pressed as to why Japan, you only said: "Because I could literally do it anywhere, and then digitally distribute my product worldwide, but I want to relocate to Japan for a while and learn Japanese."

This is a pretty weak excuse. It doesn't answer why Japan vs. any other country (for living here).
It doesn't say why you want to learn Japanese (which you could do for far less effort and expense in the States).

Then you seemed to think of an alternate response, as if to placate us with an altruistic nature:
"How about the fact that either way, I'd be spending my American-made money in another country on rent, food, transportation, etc.? How is this not beneficial to Japan?"
I don't for one minute think you have any aims to benefit Japan's economy with your product.(...)

You don't really know me or what my goals or motivations are, and even if you don't agree with any of my reasons, such as how I'm a huge anime nerd (good job on guessing that, out of a ton of guesses, by the way) I still want to go to Japan. Why do I need an "excuse" to want something in life? Do you have a reason that justifies all of your behavior that everyone on the internet (or anywhere else) is just going to agree with? Didn't think so. Don't be so judgmental. It's my life here, not yours. I'm just here for help, not the 3rd degree.

What are you some kind of gamer or anime hater? What did these types of people ever do to you? And what makes you are so special that you think you are better than them?

Do you treat everyone on these forums this way? Or do you have something against my name or avatar?

Since when does everyone have some "altruistic" reason to go to another country? I'm just stating there are more likely to be benefits for them, rather than drawbacks, and if that is the case, then why would they bar me entry to their country?

With regard to a student visa, you seem to have a slightly off way of thinking:
"I read that you have to have 20+ hours a week as a student, and I already have a bachelor's degree. Do you know a school that exclusively teaches Japanese language for 20+ hours a week? Do you know any schools that are not insanely or prohibitively expensive?"

It makes no difference whatsoever that you already have a bachelor's degree! A student visa can be used either for study at a HS/college or a language school (read: language business). The simple fact that those are businesses should up front suggest that they know how many hours are needed to sponsor a student visa. Twenty hours per week is only 4 hours a day in a 5-day system. Peanuts. Please don't expect us to do your research on language schools now. I'm tired of this thread. Do more for yourself. If you ever do get here, I get the feeling you'll want many people to do many things for you, too. Start now. The info on language schools is widely available.

It DOES make a HUGE difference, as I don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of money and time on excessive education. If you BOTHERED to read my other posts, you'd ALREADY KNOW THAT. I want to be able to grow my business as another of my life goals, and I can't do that very well when I can only put 20 hours instead of 40, or only 40 hours instead of 60, in a given week. If 20 hours makes no difference to you, feel free to donate 20 hours of labor or pay every week to Habitat for Humanity, cancer research, or a myriad of other wonderful benefits to mankind. I bet they'd make better use of your apparently valueless 20 hours of time. Oh... my bad, I guess you'd rather spend that time roasting people on online forums for no reason.

And what makes you think I didn't already do research? I called the Immigration Bureau directly for crying out loud! Stop being such a hater. If you don't want to help, there's plenty of other places on the internet to be.

Wow - this is still going. I would restate the last few comments like this:

"There are rules, but I don't want to follow them. How can I come to Japan?"

As people who have done this before, Like Wonko and myself, it is possible, but takes time, effort and money. And follow the rules.

At best that is inaccurately paraphrasing what I said. Where have I ever said I want to break rules or "don't want to follow" the rules? Just because I don't want to use a typical student visa or full-time job visa, does NOT mean I'm trying to break some rule, law, or regulation.

Sure... if I didn't have to abide by arbitrary rules, that would be great, but then I just wouldn't pay taxes anymore... I mean, obviously that isn't much of a choice for most people.

I get it. I'm the new guy. You've offered some helpful tips, and I appreciate that. But I do not appreciate - nor do I see how anyone else could appreciate - someone parading around with a giant e-peen putting words in one's mouth and trying to condescend someone else just for wanting to live in another country for a few years.

TL;DR: If you are jerks like this to everyone who asks for help, you really are just working towards killing this forum community.

 

[Glenski]

You don't really know me or what my goals or motivations are

True! You never pointed them out. Problem is, you were asked for that info, hence my complaint. Don't be so butt-hurt over it.

such as how I'm a huge anime nerd (good job on guessing that, out of a ton of guesses, by the way)

I'll be honest here. I really don't know if you're serious about that guess. Your wording isn't that clear. If I hit the mark, big whoopie. It is a common reason for people to come.

Why do I need an "excuse" to want something in life?

You don't, but you are asking us to give advice on a 2-4 year plan of moving around the world to start a new job and life. It is just reasonable that you'd have a simple reason for not doing that where you live now, and for choosing country X. I'm sorry that you don't get it.

Don't be so judgmental.

I haven't gotten anything yet to be judgmental about.

I'm just here for help, not the 3rd degree.

But in order to give some advice, it's necessary to ask some basic questions. Asking why you want to move here for 2-4 years is pretty basic. You're blowing this way out of proportion.

What are you some kind of gamer or anime hater? What did these types of people ever do to you? And what makes you are so special that you think you are better than them?

No, I don't hate those people. Wrong guess.

Do you treat everyone on these forums this way? Or do you have something against my name or avatar?

To the latter question, nope. To the former, I will say that I am here often and try to give the most accurate advice that I can, yes. That usually means getting the OP to divulge more information than they start the thread with.

Let me clue you in on something. Having been on forums for longer than 2/3 of your life, I have a lot of experience with nice posters, lost posters, confused posters, and irate irrational ones. This thread is a very typical one where the OP doesn't provide enough for people to go on, then goes on a crying fit when cornered for the info. Some people want the impossible, then complain, call us names, and stomp off the forum vowing to show us all who's who (and never coming back to prove it). Some think they can find a loophole instead and insist on it. Some never do give the info needed, so we can't help. It's a real downhill ride once the pleasantries have turned to providing real crucial answers. We're there now.

It DOES make a HUGE difference, as I don't want to spend a ridiculous amount of money and time on excessive education. If you BOTHERED to read my other posts, you'd ALREADY KNOW THAT.

You might want to look back on what you just responded to. I tried to say that it makes no difference if you have a degree or not, if what you intend to do is get a student visa. Full stop. Period. I did not intend to mean that it makes no difference which language school you choose, because I know full well how expensive they are. Hell, I used to work at one! I expect an apology over your blowup here.

And what makes you think I didn't already do research? I called the Immigration Bureau directly for crying out loud!

And once again, you totally misread my point about doing research. I did not mean about visas; I meant about the cost of specific language schools.

So many testy words, so many strikes. Oh, one more thing:

If you are jerks like this to everyone who asks for help, you really are just working towards killing this forum community.

We've been here far longer than you! Think about it.

Just because I don't want to use a typical student visa or full-time job visa, does NOT mean I'm trying to break some rule, law, or regulation.

In a nutshell, you want to come thousands of miles away to a land where you don't read/write/or speak the language nearly fluently, set up an online business, and live for 2-4 years. Your options (in another nutshell) are as follows:

• business/investor visa (probably not granted if you don't have Japanese customers, but ask immigration)

• work visa (where you do something else as a day job, then go to your rabbit hutch to work online)
• student visa (where you study and maybe work PT, then go to your rabbit hutch to work online)
• internship/trainee visa (where you'd work almost salary-free for someone in your field to get experience, then go to your rabbit hutch and work online)

That's it unless you marry a foreigner with a visa (and be eligible for a dependent visa) or marry a Japanese so you can get a spousal visa. You can't get an intracompany transfer visa, it seems. You aren't eligible for a working holiday visa. I don't see any other options. If you don't want the ones on this list, you're done.

 

[nice gaijin]

You don't really know me or what my goals or motivations are, and even if you don't agree with any of my reasons, such as how I'm a huge anime nerd (good job on guessing that, out of a ton of guesses, by the way) I still want to go to Japan. Why do I need an "excuse" to want something in life? Do you have a reason that justifies all of your behavior that everyone on the internet (or anywhere else) is just going to agree with? Didn't think so. Don't be so judgmental. It's my life here, not yours. I'm just here for help, not the 3rd degree.

If you're having so much trouble explaining yourself to strangers on the internet, imagine how much fun it'll be when you're trying to convince an immigration officer to let you come live in their country. The reason we seem to be giving you such a hard time is because if you aren't prepared to answer these questions you'd never get your foot in the door.

If you want to stay in Japan for an extended period of time, a language school remains the easiest way to get a visa, and if you aren't already fluent in Japanese then it also provides you with an additional benefit of helping you level-up an essential skill for living in Japan. I went to a language school for a short while in China and it was a good experience with plenty of free time to explore and work on my own projects.

You're exhibiting a relatively thin skin if the light prodding you're getting in this thread is enough to get you so defensive. You're going to need to toughen up and learn some humility if you expect to have any success in Japan. Consider for a moment that the people on this thread have made themselves available to answer your questions, which have been asked many, many times before. And when you don't like their beleaguered answers, you tell them their time would have been better spent elsewhere and that their presence is somehow bad for their online community...

Make no mistake: just as you are a guest here in this forum, no matter how much money you sink into a business venture in Japan, you will be a guest there too. If this is how you act as a guest, maybe Japan isn't for you.

 

[PatrickNZ]

I'll stand by what I said, and no, I don't think we're being jerks.

While heading home last night I happened to think of this again, and how I live here in Japan. What struck me is the chasm between your expectation and wants of coming here to live versus the reality. The place is about following rules, being polite and considerate and society first - not the individual.

Come as a tourist sure, but I do not understand why you want to live here (and I don't need to know.)

 

[ThatGamerGuy]

(...)

Let me clue you in on something. Having been on forums for longer than 2/3 of your life, I have a lot of experience with nice posters, lost posters, confused posters, and irate irrational ones. This thread is a very typical one where the OP doesn't provide enough for people to go on, then goes on a crying fit when cornered for the info. (...) Some never do give the info needed, so we can't help. It's a real downhill ride once the pleasantries have turned to providing real crucial answers. We're there now.
(...) Hell, I used to work at one! I expect an apology over your blowup here.
(...)
We've been here far longer than you! Think about it.

Thanks for pointing out the visa options again. I do think the language school visa is looking like the best option for me, despite the costs. At least it allows me to learn more Japanese, which is also one of my goals.

Granted, the thread title itself states that I wasn't really interested in student/job visas. I am actually curious if there is a cultural visa of some sort that might apply, but then I've read that cultural visa does not apply for learning Japanese (the main "cultural" thing I'd be interested in doing). So I'm going to say, no. At least now, I can know with confidence my best bets for a long term visa are: student visa (for language school) or business visa (after my business starts to make money).

So what is this "seasoned veteran" excuse? First off, you don't know how old I am or how long I've been using the internet. I've been a regular on forums for a little over 15 years now. Now let me clue you in on something, this isn't the only forum on the internet. I am certainly not new to posting on forums and usually people are quite nice and pleasant on them, even when answering questions for a stranger, even when they don't provide as much information as you apparently think is a necessity. A technical support forum for computer help, for example, would simply not have much of this opinionated, judgmental tone that many of you have exhibited. Usually it's just one or two trolls trying to start arguments.

I am not apologizing because you were unnecessarily being a jerk, and if you have to tell someone not to be butt-hurt or have a thin skin, that just proves how much of a jerk you are being. Think about it.

If you're having so much trouble explaining yourself to strangers on the internet, imagine how much fun it'll be when you're trying to convince an immigration officer to let you come live in their country. The reason we seem to be giving you such a hard time is because if you aren't prepared to answer these questions you'd never get your foot in the door.

If you want to stay in Japan for an extended period of time, a language school remains the easiest way to get a visa, and if you aren't already fluent in Japanese then it also provides you with an additional benefit of helping you level-up an essential skill for living in Japan. I went to a language school for a short while in China and it was a good experience with plenty of free time to explore and work on my own projects.

You're exhibiting a relatively thin skin if the light prodding you're getting in this thread is enough to get you so defensive. You're going to need to toughen up and learn some humility if you expect to have any success in Japan. Consider for a moment that the people on this thread have made themselves available to answer your questions, which have been asked many, many times before. And when you don't like their beleaguered answers, you tell them their time would have been better spent elsewhere and that their presence is somehow bad for their online community...

Make no mistake: just as you are a guest here in this forum, no matter how much money you sink into a business venture in Japan, you will be a guest there too. If this is how you act as a guest, maybe Japan isn't for you.

I'm really not having trouble explaining myself. Clearly, all that matters from the start of this post is 1 - I want to live in Japan, and 2 - I was interested in learning more about the business visa and people's experience with it.

What question have I not answered that you need to know in order to help me or for me to get my foot in the door? Really... What? Because I don't think I've missed anything important at all.

And honestly, if you don't know much about business visas, I don't know why you'd try responding to this thread. Does anyone read thread titles anymore?

I'll stand by what I said, and no, I don't think we're being jerks.

While heading home last night I happened to think of this again, and how I live here in Japan. What struck me is the chasm between your expectation and wants of coming here to live versus the reality. The place is about following rules, being polite and considerate and society first - not the individual.

Come as a tourist sure, but I do not understand why you want to live here (and I don't need to know.)

I know very well Japanese society is largely about group-think. That's all well and dandy but it's really not an excuse to berate a newcomer just for the sake of berating a newcomer.

What exactly do you think I'm expecting or that I want that doesn't jive with reality? Where did you ever get that impression?

 

[nice gaijin]

@Glenski, do you think our tone has gotten a little acidic over the years, or is everyone who wants to move to Japan, sight unseen, equally thin-skinned when they're asked for the context of their desire and goals. Are we jerks for jealously guarding the answers to their questions but telling them they aren't asking the right questions?

@ThatGamerGuy, We were asking questions not to judge you or troll you or decide whether or not to help you, but because understanding your situation is the first step to finding the right direction for you to take. Something you need to understand about Japan right now is that context tells you everything you need to know about a situation. You came to this board already of the opinion that you needed a business visa, and asked a group of seasoned expats how to get one without giving them any. When you asked your question you made us care about your situation enough to ask for it. But your attitude has dried up that concern.

Then, after you admit that the advice we've given you is your best option, you continue to moan about how poorly you were treated by these strangers that answered your questions for free. What a victim you are!

Your situational awareness is lacking, at this point. If you continue on this path, moving to Japan will be the hardest easy decision you ever made.

Good luck with your business venture.

 

[Glenski]

First off, you don't know how old I am

Your profile says you are 32. Did you lie? I have only that and your presumed honesty to go by. That's how I made my determination of 2/3 of your lifetime.

So what is this "seasoned veteran" excuse?

It's an explanation, not an excuse. I have nothing to say excuse me for. You've only been on this site under your current avatar for 8 posts since March 12, so I thought I should give you some background on what we've seen here. Doesn't matter if you've been on other forums. This one is the one you seem to have problems with, so the explanation was for your benefit.

And, yes, you acted butt-hurt and still do.

A technical support forum for computer help, for example, would simply not have much of this opinionated, judgmental tone

Well, the 3 or 4 that I have visited certainly are, especially when newbies don't follow their rules about providing enough information to give them something to go on. Firsthand experience there. So, yours is lacking.

this opinionated, judgmental tone that many of you have exhibited. Usually it's just one or two trolls trying to start arguments.

Trolls are taken down by the admin here in short order, so I hope you aren't calling any of us trolls. As for the first remark, let's review this thread. Look back on page 1. I gave you multiple nice answers, as did others. The first sign of a problem was when you misread Wonko's post and said: "Ah, my bad, I mixed this up with the 5mil. I guess you are meeting all those requirements, after all."

Then you responded to my question about why come here instead of setting up in the US, and you weren't even close to the mark. After that you acted snippy to nice gaijin with this: "Would you guys really give so much trouble to someone who only wants to go to Japan, and decides to teach English in Japan to do it?"

It escalated from there. Not our fault, buddy. Yours. Keep in mind that nobody has used bad language here. They're just tried to keep you on track and get straight answers from you.[/quote]

Cultural visa. Yes, one actually exists. Yes, it's not for language study. Since you have not mentioned any cultural hobbies (ikebana, martial arts, pottery, sword making, etc.), I didn't bring this up. You need to show experience with those things before you apply, plus find a master to teach you more. You can work PT on it. Do you qualify, or should we skip it?

I am not apologizing because you were unnecessarily being a jerk, and if you have to tell someone not to be butt-hurt or have a thin skin, that just proves how much of a jerk you are being. Think about it.

Sticks and stones. Predictable juvenile response that we've seen before. I'm big enough to ignore it. Pretty freaking low and petty of you to write that, though, considering you just got some good info from me and asked for more.

I'm really not having trouble explaining myself.

I think most of the people would disagree with you, otherwise we wouldn't have reached this level of discussion.

to nice gaijin:

And honestly, if you don't know much about business visas, I don't know why you'd try responding to this thread.

Does he have to address only the business visa aspect of your desire to come here? What's wrong with the other advice he's offered? And, it's very clear that you don't know why he responded (to help you in any way he can).

to Patrick NZ:

I know very well Japanese society is largely about group-think. That's all well and dandy but it's really not an excuse to berate a newcomer just for the sake of berating a newcomer.

But he's not doing it for that reason! You didn't really catch what he explained, either. It's not "group-think" that he pointed out will get you in trouble here. It's the strict adherence to rules, or as he put it: "he place is about following rules, being polite and considerate and society first". So it's rather ironic that you berate people for not reading!

 

[Glenski]

@Glenski, do you think our tone has gotten a little acidic over the years, or is everyone who wants to move to Japan, sight unseen, equally thin-skinned when they're asked for the context of their desire and goals. Are we jerks for jealously guarding the answers to their questions but telling them they aren't asking the right questions?

I think the half dozen or so of us veterans here have been perhaps a little faster to try nipping problems in the bud than say a decade ago, but we are not "acidic", no. As for your second question, is it my week to guard the answers, or yours? To The Gamer Guy: I think with all the links and website quotes and business/immigration knowledge we've passed on to you, you won't say we've been hoarding anything. If so, perhaps it's time you asked these questions on another of the sites you visit. Just saying...

 

[PatrickNZ]

I'll take a small amount of time from my day to read this thread because I am in my busy part of the year and don;t get much free time until June. The people that the OP is beating on have actually bothered to proffer advice and their experience. In my last day job that would have cost you US250/hr because it is what I did. If you go to a lawyer and don't like their advice, do you insult them?

The reaction on this one thread, is unusual and you would be better quitting it IMO. Spend you time more usefully getting professional advice that you will have to pay for.

 

[mdchachi]

The reaction on this one thread, is unusual and you would be better quitting it IMO. Spend you time more usefully getting professional advice that you will have to pay for.

This part isn't true. It's not at all unusual. Lots of people have taken umbrage over the years. If you search the archives you'll see this exact flow hundreds of times. Every day is groundhog day here. Except the diaper loving guy that wanted a tattoo. A gem like that thread makes it worthwhile to come back.

 

[Glenski]

I agree with mdchachi (and described similar threads a while back in this one). Sorry, PatrickNZ. This is a deja vu sort of thread. :banghead:

Now, where can I get that $250 per hour... ?

 

[PatrickNZ]

Hi mdchachi - ok, I understand your point. I see it in other places around the net, just not the threads I watch here. Maybe I was hopeful that the people wanting free advice wouldn't take exception at the answers they didn't want to hear due to the nature of the site.

(As for the previous day job - that takes some effort and a few decades of experience/specialisation.)

 

[ThatGamerGuy]

I provided plenty of info for context in my very first post. Seriously, it's you guys who have the problem. You don't need to know every detail of my life to answer a simple question, and I gave you plenty of room for understanding, yet despite some helpful answers most of you criticized me and judged me at every turn for nearly everything I posted since. I'd say that basically sets your altruism points back to zero since you pretty much just negated anything positive you had brought to the table with all this negative energy.

As I said I'm grateful to get some answers, but I'd rather get answers somewhere that people don't treat me like some sort of training dummy to take out all their anger due to other users' previous stupid questions.

If you were actually a nice community then I'd want to be a part of it and one day when I figure out my visa I could come back here and help newcomers, but this forum's attitude is what stinks, not mine, so I have no motivation to do that. I'd rather be part of a community that actually cares, and doesn't just say it. In fact you are all so negative that I don't even want to post here ever again!

The argument about Japanese society being kind, polite, and following rules, is really exactly what YOU should be concerned about, for bullying a new member here. In fact, part of the reason I want to move to Japan to get away from jerks like you.

I really can't believe you are just here to help with some of the comments that were posted. I don't think I need to point out which ones were the most offensive, and if I do have to point it out because you just can't understand, well in that case you still wouldn't get it.

I would expect a normal forum thread to have only 1 or 2 negative posters, but here it looks closer to 80% of the people posting have something nasty to say. That's pretty ridiculous by any standards.

 

[Mike Cash]

Still sounds like you were just trying to game the system, no matter how much you stomp your feet and pout.

The kind of interpersonal problems that require one to leave an entire country of people behind in an attempt to get away from them are the kind of interpersonal problems that always manage to make the trip with one.

If you have problems with everybody around you, changing countries ain't going to help.

 

[Glenski]

To repeat something I made in post #30:

Having been on forums for longer than 2/3 of your life, I have a lot of experience with nice posters, lost posters, confused posters, and irate irrational ones. This thread is a very typical one where the OP doesn't provide enough for people to go on, then goes on a crying fit when cornered for the info. Some people want the impossible, then complain, call us names, and stomp off the forum vowing to show us all who's who (and never coming back to prove it). Some think they can find a loophole instead and insist on it. Some never do give the info needed, so we can't help. It's a real downhill ride once the pleasantries have turned to providing real crucial answers. We're there now.

I didn't have to repeat this, but that last jag of a post seemed to call for it. Look at this carefully and compare to your last 2 posts, Gamer.