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Koizumi wants an army?

Hiroshi66

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True, Japan won't isolate itself and do this, but there are those who oppose Japan having any sort of military which is reactionary.
 

ashuri2

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maybe they should try a slow rearmorment, where over the course of a decade or so Japan could rebuild an army. there could be a compromise worked out that could decently satisfy both sides. :?
 

Dream Time

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Japan still has not apologized for the war crimes they've committed and they keep changing the contents of their history textbooks.
and now they are talking about getting an army?
do you think that other Asians would trust Japan?
I, for one, do not trust Japan
 

Sally_Hawn

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Well... I think the modern Japanese in general are pretty peaceful people. Who sent its submarines to Japanese waters just a few months ago?
 

Hiroshi66

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Good point. The Communist Chinese and the Republic of Korea always tell Japan it is "re-writing history." Korea doesn't do any of this itself, but do the Communist Chinese write in their textbooks the horrors of the Communist government in Mainland China in the 1950's and 1960's? Do they write that in their history books? I don't think so. So before the PRC tells Japan off for re-writing history, they should look at themselves first.
 

Dream Time

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Hiroshi66 said:
Good point. The Communist Chinese and the Republic of Korea always tell Japan it is "re-writing history." Korea doesn't do any of this itself, but do the Communist Chinese write in their textbooks the horrors of the Communist government in Mainland China in the 1950's and 1960's? Do they write that in their history books? I don't think so. So before the PRC tells Japan off for re-writing history, they should look at themselves first.


the thing is, no Chinese people would ever trust Japan, its not just the Communist government who don't trust Japan, but the Chinese people
 

Hiroshi66

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That may be true, Dream Time, but the Republic of China doesn't feel the extreme hatred that the Chinese on the Mainland feel. And Taiwan Island was under occupation for fifty years, compared with the less than ten year occupation of Mainland China.
 

Yellow Emperor

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the Republic of China doesn't feel the extreme hatred that the Chinese on the Mainland feel.
It's called propaganda. I'm from Republic of China at Taiwan and I've learned the history of Japanese occupation. People hardly mention or hardly know it because the current Chen Shuibian regime wants to align with Japan against mainland China, and the former president Li Denghui was clearly a pro-Japanese puppet. Therefore the historical materials were buried for a period of time. Especially now Taiwan has imported a significant amount of Japanese culture, which is blindly admired by teenagers who have less respect of history and heritage.

And Taiwan Island was under occupation for fifty years, compared with the less than ten year occupation of Mainland China.
Taiwan was a part of Qing dynasty for more than 200 years prior to Japanese intervention.
 

Hiroshi66

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Yellow Emperor,

I know that. I don't see what the comment regarding the Qing Dynasty had to do with that, but the Qing authorities did preform authorities against the people of the island. So did the Japanese, and so did the KMT.

As for propaganda, I'm surprised you say that. Do you support the KMT or the DPP? I am a supporter of the KMT. Maybe Chen Shui Buan and Li Teng Hui would disclose that information. Nonetheless, Chiang Kai Shek and Chiang Ching Kuo most likely told of the atrocities that occured ON MAINLAND CHINA. But what they failed to reveal was the fact that the Japanese weren't as brutal as they were in Korea and Mainland China on Taiwan.
 

Yellow Emperor

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Nonetheless, Chiang Kai Shek and Chiang Ching Kuo most likely told of the atrocities that occured ON MAINLAND CHINA. But what they failed to reveal was the fact that the Japanese weren't as brutal as they were in Korea and Mainland China on Taiwan.
Jiang Jieshi 蔣窶ーテョツ静 (Chiang Kaishek) and Jiang Jingguo 蔣テ」Sナ。ツ? (Chiang Chingkuo) had to save a face for Japanese. Because Japan was a big member of the allies in Asia, and Republic of China needed to appease Japan and keep a good relationship with U.S.A. in order to fight the communists in mainland, or at least defend themselves in island of Taiwan.

I don't suppot either party, I support what's the best for the people. However, I tend to identify my ideologies with some (emphasized) philosophies of KMT.
 

Hiroshi66

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I see. That's very true, however, I am sure that the Chiangs did tell of atrocities commited by the Japanese, not internationally, but nationally. Perhaps not what happened on Taiwan. That was my point.
 

ashuri2

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well, if we deny japan an army, i think its time we start making other untrusted countries disarm too. wait a sec, that would be about half the world, wouldn't it? well, maybe then we'll disarm coutnries with atrocities in their past. wait, that wouldn't work either: no one would have an army, the u.s., great britain, china, and lots of other places included.
 

Doc

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ashuri2 said:
well, if we deny japan an army, i think its time we start making other untrusted countries disarm too. wait a sec, that would be about half the world, wouldn't it? well, maybe then we'll disarm coutnries with atrocities in their past. wait, that wouldn't work either: no one would have an army, the u.s., great britain, china, and lots of other places included.

Heh, no kidding. Besides if we truly want world peace without war or the need for a military I hate to break it to all of you tree hugging hippies, but it isn't going to happen. Humanity is prone to conflict. That's how we opperate.

Doc
 

Hiroshi66

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Good point, Doc.

Why do you think Japan will suddenly be on the road towards 1941 again? Its not. It has no reason to be.
 

Rayc

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Japan has five armies, five maritime districts, and three air defense forces. Main bases in Hokkaido, eastern Honshu, central and western Honshu and Shikoku, and Kyushu.

I believe Japan has Ground Self-Defense Force has medium tanks, reconnaissance vehicles, armored personnel carriers, towed and self-propelled howitzers, mortars, single rocket and multiple rocket launchers, air defense guns, surface-to-surface missiles, antitank missiles, fixed-wing aircraft, attack helicopters, and transport helicopters. Maritime Self-Defense Force: diesel submarines, guided missile destroyers, frigates with helicopters, frigates, patrol and coastal combatants, mine warfare ships, amphibious ships, auxiliaries, ground based fixed-wing aircraft, and helicopters. Air Self-Defense Force: ground attack aircraft, fighters, reconnaissance aircraft, airborne early warning aircraft, transport aircraft, surface-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, air-to-air missiles, and air-defense control and warning units.

Pretty good for self defence.
 

Hiroshi66

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Japan has a very well prepared army, even if it is only for self-defence, which all armies really should be. Nonetheless, anti-Japanese deem it as "militarism all over again".
 

Yellow Emperor

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Well. If Japanese military is capable for self-defense, then I don't think our friend Koizumi should enlarge Japan's army.
 

Rayc

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Doc said:
Heh, no kidding. Besides if we truly want world peace without war or the need for a military I hate to break it to all of you tree hugging hippies, but it isn't going to happen. Humanity is prone to conflict. That's how we opperate.

Doc

No kidding.

I thought the US wants to spread 'Freedom and Democracy' and that is why it required war.

The US is the sole global superpower and it intends to keep it that way.

He who controls oil, controls the world economy.

How?

The global Peak Oil has happened. For every barrel discovered, 4 barrels are used. Therefore, oil is becoming less. Therefore, control/ influece of oil is necessary since one could then manipulate the market and thus teh world economy.

The US lease on Saudi Oil finishes this year. That is why the Saudis have to be kept humoured even though they are the ones who export the Wahabis.

The US has to influence areas that produce oil and also ensure that the sealanes are safe. Therefore, its interest in the Caspian Are which has a very large untapped hydrocarbon reserve. A US led Consortium is planning two pipeline out of the area. The testimony of the Unocal head to the Senate receals everything.

Now, by 2020 as per the NIC (CIA) analysis, China and India will be the bigget oil users. Therefore, the cheapest way to move the oil is through Afghanistan and through Pakistan ports.

So that is why Afghanistan was on the target (one of the reasons; apart from the elimination of the horrid Taliban) and attacked and Pakistan which has WMD officially as also produce terrorists (and so should be target #1 on the 'war on terror' list) is kept humoured. Osama cannot be flushed out sicne Pakistan is Pu ssyfooting.

Iraq and other 'axes of evil' like Iran are littoral states along the searoutes through which the oil must move and so they had to be brought within the US 'sphere of influence'. Iraq is down and clock has started for Iran.

It also help in tightening the screw on Russia. Since US has 'bases' in the Central Asian Republics and since Georgia and Ukraine has suddenly discovered the urge for "Freedom and Democracy', the noose has tightened. Belarus is next. US is also exerting elbow pressure from CAR on China.

So, all the Pollyanna stuff and Goody two Shoes humbug by the US is a big laugh.

Only kids are fooled by all that.

Also, the Japanese PM has not suddenly turned militarist. It is all required by the US (to encircle China; I am pleased, but is China?)

No kidding, really.
 

ashuri2

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...wow. we wnt from japan's army to rant against american militaristic actions. true as it may be, i don't think this has much bearing on japan having an army. japan is not talkin about enforcing so-called 'peace and democracy', and i doubt its oil-stealin' happy like the u.s.
 

Rayc

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Yes my post had nothing to do with Japan.

It was in reply to Doc's post to tree hugging folks that with those tongue in the cheek homilies and pious platitudes.

The US is doing what she has to do, not because the world has to have conflicts, nut because if she doesn't do what she is doing, the US will not be able to continue as the sole global superpower.
 

Index

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I dare say a Japaneses army could be a significant force in the future. A strong militaristic history and tradition, together with a decent economy could lead to who knows what.
 
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