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Koizumi wants an army?

Rayc

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The little that I know of geo-strategy, Taiwan has to have faith in Japan.

Taiwan cannot survive without US protection and US depends on Japan as a reliable and a frontline state in the Pacific.

The situation in the world is fast changing and by 2020, China will be a power to challenge the US (National Intelligence Committee Report 2020).

Therefore, the US has to build up a formidable bulwark against China to keep a check on it.

In view of this, Japan is trying to shed the restrictions of its Constitution with regards to its Armed Forces so that it can officially become a country that can take an 'offensive' posture, if the need be.
 

Hiroshi66

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The ROC and Japan have had great realtions if you compare relations with Japan and the PRC or the ROK.
 

Brooker

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I think Japan is not the country it was back in WWII and could be trusted with it's own military, although I understand Japan's neighbors may have cause to doubt that. Only time could tell. But probably the Japanese military wouldn't do much without U.S. approval so it would just be like an extention of the U.S. military.
 

Hiroshi66

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I wouldn't say that, Brooker. It can be said that the current SDF is part of the United States army. Some could argue that Japan is like an American protectorate or even autonomous possesion - mainly because of the way the US influenced elections in the 1950's and 1960's. The same can be said about South Korea. It will change only when US bases are removed and the Japanese army becomes a real army.
 

Brooker

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I guess I underestimate the implications of Japan getting its own military. It could be the end of Japan being like a territory of the U.S. and the beginning of it being an independent nation again. But I think U.S. influence would remain to some degree even if Japan got its own military.
 

Hiroshi66

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Naturally. Every nation has a level of US influence. Heck, even the United Kingdom has its fair share of US influence.
 

ashuri2

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Hiroshi66 said:
Naturally. Every nation has a level of US influence. Heck, even the United Kingdom has its fair share of US influence.


lol, that's a bit of an understatement. 😊
 

Sensuikan San

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As a "Brit", living north of the 49th parallell - I'm tempted to suggest that, these days, the UK has perhaps, more US influence over it than Canada does !

Perhaps we live so close to the US, we can see the good and the bad with more clarity ..... eh ?

(Anybody from Mexico have a view on this .... ?)

Regards,

ニ淡ニ停?。ニ停?
 

Brooker

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Sensuikan San said:
As a "Brit", living north of the 49th parallell - I'm tempted to suggest that, these days, the UK has perhaps, more US influence over it than Canada does !

Perhaps we live so close to the US, we can see the good and the bad with more clarity ..... eh ?

(Anybody from Mexico have a view on this .... ?)

Regards,

ニ淡ニ停?。ニ停?彈/QUOTE]

The Americans who get sick of it need somewhere nearby to move to. :) But I think it works the other way too. My grandfather and his family were all French Canadians who moved to America. Oops, I let the cat out of the bag. Maybe that's why I'm always so critical of American politics, it's in my blood. :D
 

Hiroshi66

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Naturally. Another example is how English is now sweeping the world as the "universal language".
 

Nefelia

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I think Japan has become mature and responsible enough.

I disagree. Mature and responsible? For the most part, yes. Mature and responsible enough? No. At least, not until it can deal with its Asian neighbors on an equal footing, and not from behind the umbrella of US hegemony. Maybe a militart self-reliance is a step in that direction, but its not evident by the way the US is handling its foreign affairs: it seems to be snuggling deeper into the embrace of the US, and further from self-determined Asian independence.

The proposal for a build-up comes along with a fresh wave of aggressive posturing, such as on the Senkaku–Daioyutai island dispute, the naming of China as a potential military threat (I still don't understand the purpose of that), and the more recent joint stance with the US on the defence of Taiwan. This is not very comforting for Japan's Asian neighbors, who still view Japan with suspicion due to past aggression. 'Japanese military build-up' bring back some pretty bad memories. This time around, Japan should handle the issue softly and subtly, not beligerently and as an extention of a reactionary nationalism.

Unfortunately, I don't have much faith in Japan's current administration.
 

Hiroshi66

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Nefelia, welcome! I agree with most of your points. However, on the issue of Japan protecting Taiwan with the US, why can't it? If the PRC is apprehensive about Japan and its wartime past, it should first think about why Japan is deciding to protect the ROC. From a PRC invasion. Japan is, in their eyes, becoming militaristic because of the militarism of the PRC.
 

MajideSaiaku

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i think japans self defence force and its role is sufficient ebnough to secure japan, japan has no reason to send armies outside its borders, and it has no logical reason to build up militarily.

the only thing a military build up is for, is agression.


japan is a country thats very inward looking, correct?.....there are everyone else, then the japanese, thats just how it is in the most basic sense, and i think its foolish to think japan should be allowed to change the constitution and build up an offensive army, it doesnt make sense, the SDF meets all the needs pretty much for defending japan, and japan is better off as a peaceful centre for developing the asian economy overall.

we have to face a simple fact, japan, to varying degree's, has always had an isolationist policy, from not letting anyone in or out to simply developing a social apathy towards anything foreign, i love japan, and my g/f is japanese, but japan is simply a country in lvoe with itself, the japanese have spent their entire history nearly to themselves, thinking about themselves, whatever you can say about european empires, at least the majority of the world was introduced to a world outside their own borders, east asian states have in general always been fairly hidden from foreigners, but japan made it its defining national trait to considor itself seperate and unique from everyone else, even the chinese who's culture they originally copied and admired.


japan is new to globalization and internationalism, and i think its still not ready for the responsibility of an offensive army, offensive armies are for nations who know of the world somewhat better.

america might be annoying and its foreign policy might be like a bull in a china shop, but for all that, america doesnt seriously destabalize whole regions, and it doesnt get total free reign.

if japan built up militarily, china and north korea would get edgy, and it could only lead to another war in the region, and the japanese arnt the best at looking past the consiquences to themselves from their actions.


anyway, no doubt parts of my position might be disagreed with, but i personally feel, japan is fine the way it is, and a military build up with an offensive army does japan no good, apart from raise tension in the region.
 

Hiroshi66

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Militarily, I think Japan has to build up its troops BECAUSE of its neighbors, excluding Taiwan. As of now, sometimes I turn on the Korean news channel and half of their news specials are about Takeshima. If other East Asian states have armies, why can't Japan?
 

Kama

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Brooker said:
I think Japan is not the country it was back in WWII and could be trusted with it's own military, although I understand Japan's neighbors may have cause to doubt that.

As a Polish citizen I highly doubt that Germany should have an army. XD Russia too. From my point of view this countries should be demitalirised first. :D And the next one should be USA. They had made too much of chaos in the world.

I agree, let Koizumi make a real army. It's high time.
 

Hiroshi66

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Wow, Poland? I love Poland. Have studied it for a long time. What about Austria? They've invaded your territory just as much as the Russians and the Germans have.

In any case.. I don't think not allowing countries to bear arms will prevent a war from happening. If a country is bent on war, THEY ARE BENT ON WAR. If Germany wants to invade France, they will do so and fight a guerilla war. Or they will smuggle weapons in. If a country has a goal, it will achieve it no matter what. Its the fact that they don't want to commit war.
 

jung hyum

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japan is different

Hiroshi66 said:
Militarily, I think Japan has to build up its troops BECAUSE of its neighbors, excluding Taiwan. As of now, sometimes I turn on the Korean news channel and half of their news specials are about Takeshima. If other East Asian states have armies, why can't Japan?

hiroshi,
seems like you still do not understand what's so special for JAPAN to set up her own army.
Japan's neighbors are making such fuss because it is no one else but JAPAN.Japan is like no any other countries,she is special.And the only superpower in Aisa,in the past or present. As japanese themselves, they may seen themselves as victims,ie. under the control of US, being treatened by China, and againsted by many other asian countries.but as for other aisan countries, they are scared too, they are afraid that the history will repeat. 60 years' good behaviour by japan can't prove anything, people will see this as a period of preparation for japanese to come back.
And japan never admit that she belongs to Asia, she is actually regarding herself as a member of western. it is only when she realized US never treated her as one from western world, she is trying to befriend with those Asian countries, but everyone already lost trust for her.
i mean, it is better for every country to have equitable power, but not a superpower in a region,other east asian countries can have armies because they are weak,but never, japan.
As for China,she is trying to develop herself economically, she is not in the mood of becoming a ruler of asia, at least not this quick.But according to Japan's sumarai logic, they are thinking China is becoming strong and trying to revenge.
But China is not japan. Japan is just too nervous that she is being histerical.No one want to attack japan in any way at this point, it is just japan using protection herself as an excuse to invade other people's land.
you should realize, japan is not the victim, but rather,victims are other weaker countries in asia. they are the ones who need armies for protection, but japan is the one needs armies for new invasion.
that's the difference.
everyone in aisa hopes for peace, but japan is always trying to destroy this. i think most japanese hate wars as well, but those right-winged parties in japan is trying to get more polls and using nationalism as a means to distract people's concentration from the declining domestic economy.
i can say japanese are also victims, mostly by their own government , but not China or any other asian countries that Japan is trying to protect herself from.
japan is too strong to say"protect myself".it is a form of "legally invasion".
hope my opinions do not offend you very much, but just like propoganda plays a part in every country,i think you should not always look at japan's problem from the standpoint that"japan is a victim/not a normal country/under the control of US".
 

Hiroshi66

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I agree with what you've sad. However, by your post you've proven what I always point out. Japan is viewed as an agressor and a superpower. Do you mean military superpower? Maybe in the 1600s, but my friend, not today. Japan may have economic superiority, but that's about it. If the US army wasn't there, a joint Sino-Korean invasion force could wipe out the Japanese army despite any organized resistance the SDF would counter (the SDF are trained, mind you.).

Japan wants to destroy peace in Asia? No. Not true. China wanted to destroy peace in Asia. North Korea wantS to destroy peace in Asia. North Vietnam wanted to destroy peace in Asia. Democratic Kampuchea wanted to. Japan WANTED to. But does Japan want to today? Maybe a right-wing fanatic does, but does Koizumi want to?

I agree with your facts, and you have backed up your statements. The only things I had to say are above.
 

MajideSaiaku

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the problem is, if japan started building up a military, would the japanese really oppose this in any seriousness?...the problem i am assuming with japans past is the japanese just dont know how or when to say "enough is enough" they just trust in their leaders "good intentions"

as for the japanese government, i dont feel its as open to public scrutiny and control like other western countries, bush wouldnt get away with starting world war 3 in america...at least not so easily, but in japan i dont know....i get the impression a government could more easily weasel power and convince the japanese to fight another war.


either way it doesnt matter, japan is a peaceful country constitutionally, and it has no reasonable reason for a full fledge military, and it certainly doesnt have any reason to be sending armed forces all around the world, that puppet of american foreign policy position is taken by britain =P.

the american military isnt going to pull out anytime soon, and the SDF is sufficient for national defence for the momment, given that it has no reason to expect unprevoked invasion.

my 2 cents.
 

Eisuke

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nurizeko said:
if japan started building up a military.

The Japanese military is already becoming normal again.

it certainly doesnt have any reason to be sending armed forces all around the world, that puppet of american foreign policy position is taken by britain =P.

The United States wants Japan to be a Britain of the Far East which means helping and supporting the USA militarily when needed.
 

Hiroshi66

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If Japan is a normal country why can't it have a military like every other normal country? I don't see Italy or Germany without an army. And US troops are there.
 

sewels

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the problem is, if japan started building up a military, would the japanese really oppose this in any seriousness?...the problem i am assuming with japans past is the japanese just dont know how or when to say "enough is enough" they just trust in their leaders "good intentions"

as for the japanese government, i dont feel its as open to public scrutiny and control like other western countries, bush wouldnt get away with starting world war 3 in america...at least not so easily, but in japan i dont know....i get the impression a government could more easily weasel power and convince the japanese to fight another war.

I support this view. Even in US, only half the nation support Bush's Middle-east war and Bush government will need to take caution of public voice. But Japanese tends to believe in what ever reason from the government. Like the text-book case, most Japanese accept the excuse from the government that the 'problem' text book is only account for a small amount. But the core of the problem is what is the motivation behind the government to approve such text book. Why the government do not abandon the right-wing at all? [freedom of speech??? Come-on. Then Terrorist/Nazi should have a party of their own too] Most Japanese tends to blindly follow the dillema written in newspaper or said by the government. Those who don't follow will just keep silient.

Another thing is that even now Japan do not have their own army, their millitary expenditure already rank 7 in the world. What will the government do if they can have their own army?? Does any Japanese question this to your government?

I am sorry if this is offending.. i do not have any pre-judgice againtst Japanese people. I just hope Japanese not simply find hundred of evidence to support your thinking. You will go the wrong way if you do so. Instead you should try to question your thinking and find opposing evidence.
 

Tim33

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If china's economy and growth is going so fast as to rival the US in 20 years time do you think this will create a similar situation as the Cold War. I mean china is a communist government yes ? I mean i dont think there really mature enough to handle such power. In that case then the Japanese should surely build a military. I really dont think the chinese have the ability to cope with this new power.

Not to offend any chinese or anything but your actions state your lack of maturity quite well.
 

sewels

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misguide this to the topic of maturity of communist again?? or even maturity of me?
Not to offend any Japanese but you action proved the immature behaviour above quite well. You may answer yes, Japanese tend to trust whatever your government say ,or, No, Japanese are not like that. Then i will response to your question about communist.
 
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