Kanji list for learning. Good or bad?

[Thorham]

My question is simple, is the following list of kanji accurate in terms of the primary meaning given per kanji? I know the list doesn't have more than one meaning per kanji and lacks the readings as well. I'll sort this out later. All I want to know is if the meanings in this list are the most common ones.

It's a long list, 3007 entries, so I don't expect people to read the whole list. If someone is up for it, then it's a different story.

Any help is apreciated.

List: View attachment kanjilist.txt which is in euc format. Your browser should be able to display it properly.

 

[Pachipro]

I clicked the link, have Japanese writing and reading ability on IE 8 and my computer and was still unable to read it as it downloaded into notepad format.

 

[Thorham]

Because notepad doesn't support the euc format, and not all browsers allow selection of the program to open a file with, here is a unicode version which can simply be opened with notepad (IE8 default setting):

View attachment kanjilist.txt

I clicked the link, have Japanese writing and reading ability on IE 8 and my computer and was still unable to read it as it downloaded into notepad format.

In IE8 you have to save the file first, and then drag the file into the browser. I use Opera where you can select the program to open a file with, so I didn't realise this. My bad

 

[nice gaijin]

Taking the first word from an 和英 dictionary doesn't necessarily mean it's the "main" meaning.

0017 "I" 吾
There are many different characters used for "I" that are rooted in context, and this one isn't in common use. 我 is the commonly used for oneself in Chinese or older or literary Japanese. Also common are 私、僕、俺

0018 "risk" 冒
again, not in the same sense. 冒険 is the most common word that uses that character, and you wouldn't expect "adventure" to be its meaning if you read the "meanings" individually.

0019 "companion" 朋
Again, not the commonly used character. same reading and meaning but more oft used, 友. Also not the only words for "companion;" 仲間 (colleagues, comrades)、友達 (friend)、友人 (friend)、親友 (close friend)、同僚 (colleagues, coworkers), 相手 (partner, opponent)、夫婦 (married couples aren't companions?) See the err in relying on one language to describe another?

And it goes on and on; Kanji are not just limited to a single meaning or inference, and their meanings are still driven quite a bit by context (not just what the sentence is about but the characters that are placed around them)

Perhaps you would be better served by looking at kanji lists by their grade level, where they are arrange into some sort of intentional order (be it stroke count, usefulness, shared elements or simple to complex meanings). Making a random list and trying to boil away everything but one meaning is like... making a botany book listing plants in which order you see them from your bathroom window, and naming them with the first word that comes to mind when you see them.

 

[Thorham]

Taking the first word from an 和英 dictionary doesn't necessarily mean it's the "main" meaning.

Yeah, I figured out that they just took the first meanings from the kanjidic file. Bah, I could've done that myself...

See the err in relying on one language to describe another?

Yes, it's not trivial when languages are far apart.

And it goes on and on; Kanji are not just limited to a single meaning or inference, and their meanings are still driven quite a bit by context (not just what the sentence is about but the characters that are placed around them)

The problem is that I want to use the information in the kanjidic file. I obtained this list hoping that it would show the most common uses for kanji meaning wise. Maybe kanjidic is just unsuitable for learning purposes.

Perhaps you would be better served by looking at kanji lists by their grade level, where they are arrange into some sort of intentional order (be it stroke count, usefulness, shared elements or simple to complex meanings).

Of course, but that's not the problem. Organizing a list of kanji by their grade is easy enough when you have the kanjidic file, or any other complete grade listing available

Making a random list and trying to boil away everything but one meaning is like... making a botany book listing plants in which order you see them from your bathroom window, and naming them with the first word that comes to mind when you see them.

As said, I didn't organize the list. The problem is that kanjidic lists many meanings for quite a number of kanji, and I want to focus on the most used meanings, instead of starting out with learning all of the meanings. It seems to me that when starting out, the primary meanings are the most important.

The same goes for readings. Some kanji have a lot of readings listed in kanjidic, and it seems that learning all of them is not a good idea. It would be like trying to learn the whole language in one go, while keeping it simple until you have a firm grasp of the basics, is better aproach.

Anyway, I'm trying to get useful learning material, and I thought that this list might enable me to start weeding out some information from kanjidic witch I could then learn at a later point when I would actually have some sort of useful basis.

Okay, this list isn't any good, thanks a ton for clearing that up Any recommendations for a good kanji list that's available for free (low on cash here)?

 

[Putrefaction]

Okay, this list isn't any good, thanks a ton for clearing that up Any recommendations for a good kanji list that's available for free (low on cash here)?

If you have an email address, I can send you the list that I got from a website that I can't find anymore.

 

[nice gaijin]

As said, I didn't organize the list.

where did you say that in your original post? Either way, it's a relief that you didn't, because it's pretty much useless.

The problem is that kanjidic lists many meanings for quite a number of kanji, and I want to focus on the most used meanings, instead of starting out with learning all of the meanings. It seems to me that when starting out, the primary meanings are the most important.

Are you still trying to approach kanji solely from their meanings? Is this still a "language-independent" endeavor, or are you trying to learn Japanese? If so, perhaps you should pick up some Japanese learning materials instead of trying to concentrate solely on the written aspect; the more you learn about the language the clearer kanji's role and behavior will be. You might actually have to buy a book or take a class to get the ball rolling here.

 

[Thorham]

If you have an email address, I can send you the list that I got from a website that I can't find anymore.

Thanks a lot for your offer. I'll pm you my email address.

where did you say that in your original post?

I said that I had obtained the list somewhere. Just a wording mistake

Either way, it's a relief that you didn't, because it's pretty much useless.

Too bad, glad I didn't waste much time on it.

Are you still trying to approach kanji solely from their meanings? Is this still a "language-independent" endeavor, or are you trying to learn Japanese?

No, I'm not. I want to learn Japanese. It just seemed like a good idea to focus on core readings and meanings, if these even exist.

If so, perhaps you should pick up some Japanese learning materials instead of trying to concentrate solely on the written aspect; the more you learn about the language the clearer kanji's role and behavior will be. You might actually have to buy a book or take a class to get the ball rolling here.

Although spending money is something I want to avoid, it might be necessary. Any recommendations for good material?

 

[nice gaijin]

I said that I had obtained the list somewhere. Just a wording mistake

hmm, you didn't even say that. Oh well, it's not important.

No, I'm not. I want to learn Japanese. It just seemed like a good idea to focus on core readings and meanings, if these even exist.

You're still trying to approach them as if each character lives in vacuum by itself. One of the reason there are so many meanings for kanji is that they can behave differently when you put them together. If you are studying kanji in the context of Japanese, look at how they're actually used in Japanese.

Although spending money is something I want to avoid, it might be necessary. Any recommendations for good material?

The Japan Times puts out some good beginner materials, Genki I and II are the basics for the first year or so of study. If you want something specifically for kanji, you would probably like Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji," which does focus mainly on meanings first to improve recognition.

 

[Thorham]

hmm, you didn't even say that. Oh well, it's not important.

You just missed it:

The problem is that I want to use the information in the kanjidic file. I obtained this list hoping that it would show the most common uses for kanji meaning wise. Maybe kanjidic is just unsuitable for learning purposes.

You're still trying to approach them as if each character lives in vacuum by itself. One of the reason there are so many meanings for kanji is that they can behave differently when you put them together. If you are studying kanji in the context of Japanese, look at how they're actually used in Japanese.

It just would've been nice if the amount of material could've been limited in the beginning. If it's impossible, then it's impossible. Not a problem, and better to find out now rather than later when it might get in the way

The Japan Times puts out some good beginner materials, Genki I and II are the basics for the first year or so of study. If you want something specifically for kanji, you would probably like Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji," which does focus mainly on meanings first to improve recognition.

Ah, good to know, thanks! Genki I and II shouldn't be a problem to obtain, so I'll have a look at those. And I'll have a look at Heisig's book as well.

Thanks for baring with me and the advice, it's quite useful

 

[Putrefaction]

You're still trying to approach them as if each character lives in vacuum by itself. One of the reason there are so many meanings for kanji is that they can behave differently when you put them together. If you are studying kanji in the context of Japanese, look at how they're actually used in Japanese.

This is actually my problem as well.