Jlpt 2008

[oula]

hey!! i had my result 3 days ago (but couldn't be on the net till today -_-).....
i passed it and i had 301\400 ^^ for 134 in grammar T0T and 89 in vocabulary and 78 in the listining T0T
well, althought i thought that i'll have more than 301 but i'm happy with it ;D
hopw that everyone is gonna have nice notes and nicer than mine -_-!

 

[Red5]

hey!! i had my result 3 days ago (but couldn't be on the net till today -_-).....
i passed it and i had 301\400 ^^ for 134 in grammar T0T and 89 in vocabulary and 78 in the listining T0T
well, althought i thought that i'll have more than 301 but i'm happy with it ;D
hopw that everyone is gonna have nice notes and nicer than mine -_-!

it looks good news and I hope to you the successful in all JLPT

 

[bakaKanadajin]

I took the level 2 this past December '08 and passed, 71/70/142. My marks weren't that high but I'm really pleased with my results as I wasn't planning on taking it until this year. I will be taking level 1 this July but I do not expect to pass, I am taking it just to experience the level 1. I am really aiming for December and will hopefully pass that one.

oula: As dreamer suggested, the Kanzen Master Series is a fine series of books and I used them religiously to pass the level 2. The green (grammar mondaishuu) contains all the grammar you need. It is written completely in Japanese though. Going from the level 3 (red) to the level 2 was daunting as there are a lot of kanji you don't know at first. This is partly the reason why they're now making it into a 5-step system, the gap between 3 and 2 is traditionally quite big. That being said, your dictionary is your friend and the kanji that appear in the level 2 book are those that will appear on the level 2 test, it works out quite nicely.

In addition to that I highly recommend the dokkai mondaishuu (reading comp. book). It's brown. The recommended timing, the focus on various writing forms (fiction vs. non-fiction vs. essay vs. opinion vs. scientific article vs. graph interpretation) spans the full array of possibilities you may encounter on the test. The recommended timing emulates the time management you need to employ during the test to make sure you have time to answer everything. It gives you a good idea of what your reading comp. speed should be in order to get a decent score.



Dutch Baka Sorry to hear you didn't pass, I remember reading somewhere around here earlier that you'd been planning to take it and I had wondered actually how that turned out. I'm sure you'll pass with flying colours next time.

To anyone struggling with vocab recall/retention I also highly recommend a program called Anki. When I discarded my paper flash cards and switched to a spaced-algorithm flashcard program my retention increased dramatically. But don't forget to write the kanji, you won't remember them all based on visual recall alone.

 

[LukeSettle]

Ahaha well I feel like a n00b.
I've been studying japanese for two to three years, maybe only seriously for 1and1/2.
I took the 4 lol, I probably could have tried the 3 but wouldn't have passed. The 4 was suprisingly harder than some forum members had posted it was.
I think I'll try those kanzen thingys

Edit: oh yeah and I haven't recieved my results yet, or found anything online TT^TT

Edit2: Just recieved an email saying my results are online.
I got.. 69/76/146 (291)
Why do i have a feeling thats really bad for level 1?
>.< ...well i passed.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Ahaha well I feel like a n00b.
I've been studying japanese for two to three years, maybe only seriously for 1and1/2.
I took the 4 lol, I probably could have tried the 3 but wouldn't have passed. The 4 was suprisingly harder than some forum members had posted it was.
I think I'll try those kanzen thingys
Edit: oh yeah and I haven't recieved my results yet, or found anything online TT^TT

As my students like to say.."I recommend!"

Edit2: Just recieved an email saying my results are online.
I got.. 69/76/146 (291)
Why do i have a feeling thats really bad for level 1?
>.< ...well i passed.

For level 1 you need 70% not 60% to pass so, unfortunately you're right it would fall short in the writing/vocab at 69.

 

[LukeSettle]

As my students like to say.."I recommend!"

Cool! Is it too hard to understand because its all in japanese? and what are the names of the books for lvl 3?

For level 1 you need 70% not 60% to pass so, unfortunately you're right it would fall short in the writing/vocab at 69.

Oh no! i meant level 4 sorry!
Just everyone is saying how easy it is, and it really wasnt super easy for me.. wasnt too hard but.. yeah x) But ive definitely gotten way better since december, i think

Thanks for the help!

 

[dreamer]

As far as I know there is no book for level 4 except for past year tests (The kanzen master 3kyuu does contain some 4kyuu grammar points though)...

I do not mean to sound sarcastic nor mean (I appologize in advance if it sounds like I am), but how do you "study" Japanese?
The requirements for the 4kyuu are so low that editors did not even judged good to make a book for it. Most of the time, total beginners who have studied Japanese for about 6 months are able to tackle it. Are you sure there is nothing wrong with the way your teacher teaches or the material you are using?

 

[bakaKanadajin]

That red one is the only level 3 book I have, I'm not sure if they've broken kanji and reading down into separate mondaishuus like they did for 2 and 1, but there are lots available so shop around. For level 3 any book will do.

The level 3 book has English explanations by the way. The 2 and 1 books are written completely in Japanese. Don't worry if you find it hard, I think a lot of people hit stumbling blocks in the beginning then they have breakthroughs later on so just keep at it. The most important thing in my humble opinion is just to not think in your native language, think in Japanese and try not to directly translate stuff. As much as possible, attempt to catch the feeling of the phrases themselves, not the English interpretation.

 

[LukeSettle]

As far as I know there is no book for level 4 except for past year tests (The kanzen master 3kyuu does contain some 4kyuu grammar points though)...

I'm not looking for a 4級 textbook.

I do not mean to sound sarcastic nor mean (I appologize in advance if it sounds like I am), but how do you "study" Japanese?
The requirements for the 4kyuu are so low that editors did not even judged good to make a book for it. Most of the time, total beginners who have studied Japanese for about 6 months are able to tackle it. Are you sure there is nothing wrong with the way your teacher teaches or the material you are using?

Well thank you, I guess I must still be a beginner.
I started studying with "Easy Japanese" and "Remembering the Kanji" (but haven't gotten very far in this book anyways). Since then i have bought more books, including "Barrons Japanese grammar" and "Japanese step by step". Since taking the test i have bought 2 particles books by "Naoki Chino", which are extremely helpful, and a book called "Making sense of Japanese" which is also very useful. I teach my self on my own free time, because I am homeschooled and neither of my parents speaks a word of japanese except the occasional "arigato" or "-san".

Sarcasm/
Maybe all of the authors of the above mentioned books just don't know correct Japanese? /sarcasm.

I'm sure if i was in japan and immersed i would have passed with a much better score. But seeing as, I'm still in high school, I'm 16 and I don't have the money or skills to go to Japan and stay there, I think I'm learning just fine.

And yes most of the time you do come across as condescending and/or mean in your posts.


bakaKanadajinへ
Cool, I'll look around for those, and Thanks for the advice!
I'll do my best!
頑張りますよ

 

[bakaKanadajin]

Since then i have bought more books, including "Barrons Japanese grammar"

This bad boy?


I really liked this book I used it a lot in the beginning. I think that along with the Kanzen master (or any other level 3 book) will really form a strong basis for your Japanese studies. The romaji/English in the Barron's explains things clearly and the other books will help solidify it and give it context with examples and what not.

Don't forget to practice your listening too.
The Genki series has really good CD's and listening practice, I recommend it for those starting out as well. I don't advocate stealing but I was at one point able to find both series 1 and 2 on a torrent website. Maybe if you had trouble finding the books that'd be your only option though so I mention it in passing.

Lastly when I was in Canada I ordered my books from here, they were great to deal with:
http://www.sasugabooks.com/

They're more expensive than if you were here and able to buy locally but seeing as that's not an option these guys are your next best bet for anything you can't find on Amazon.

Good luck

 

[LukeSettle]

This bad boy?


I really liked this book I used it a lot in the beginning. I think that along with the Kanzen master (or any other level 3 book) will really form a strong basis for your Japanese studies. The romaji/English in the Barron's explains things clearly and the other books will help solidify it and give it context with examples and what not.

Yeah its a great book, unfortunately i got it shortly before the test so i didnt have time to read it all, but have read it all now.
btw, I had seen pictures of it and i didnt expect it to be so small! but it fits quite a bit in

Don't forget to practice your listening too.
The Genki series has really good CD's and listening practice, I recommend it for those starting out as well. I don't advocate stealing but I was at one point able to find both series 1 and 2 on a torrent website. Maybe if you had trouble finding the books that'd be your only option though so I mention it in passing.

Lastly when I was in Canada I ordered my books from here, they were great to deal with:
http://www.sasugabooks.com/

They're more expensive than if you were here and able to buy locally but seeing as that's not an option these guys are your next best bet for anything you can't find on Amazon.

Good luck

Right now im using Japanese pod 101 as my listening practice but im not sure if that will be adequate.

That site looks great, I'll definitely use it in the future!

Thanks so much for all the recommendations!

 

[dreamer]

Well thank you, I guess I must still be a beginner.
I started studying with "Easy Japanese" and "Remembering the Kanji" (but haven't gotten very far in this book anyways). Since then i have bought more books, including "Barrons Japanese grammar" and "Japanese step by step". Since taking the test i have bought 2 particles books by "Naoki Chino", which are extremely helpful, and a book called "Making sense of Japanese" which is also very useful.

In a sense, we are still beginners. Although I have been learning English for the last 6 years, I still have a lot of trouble understanding some articles, and I must often use a dictionary when I come across specific words. Additionally, I doubt I will one day be able to reach the level of fluency of native speakers.
Regarding your books, I think that you are using too many of them, and you should focus on one program at a time.

I teach my self on my own free time, because I am home-schooled and neither of my parents speaks a word of Japanese except the occasional "arigato" or "-san".

I don't think you are not the only one to teach yourself on your "free time" as all of us have our occupations. The thing is to learn on a regular basis.

Sarcasm/
Maybe all of the authors of the above mentioned books just don't know correct Japanese? /sarcasm.

Sarcasm/
Or maybe you just don't understand their English?
/sarcasm
Apart from that, some people might be native speakers but it's difficult to explain some of the subtleties of the Japanese language. Try to ask an ordinary Japanese why they use 目 to count certain things or when to use ご or お in front of some terms to sound more polite and you'll understand what I mean.

I'm sure if i was in japan and immersed i would have passed with a much better score.

And I am sure that if you were to work from Monday to Friday (sometimes Saturday) from 8am till 9-11pm (add 2hours of commuting to that) in a 100% English speaking environment you will *not* improve as much as you expect.

But seeing as, I'm still in high school, I'm 16 and I don't have the money or skills to go to Japan and stay there, I think I'm learning just fine.

"Petit à petit, l'oiseau fait son nid", everybody has his or her own learning pace. The most important is the satisfaction you get from learning something and applying it. As long as you're satisfied with what you've learned so far then it's alright

And yes most of the time you do come across as condescending and/or mean in your posts.

Then I offer my apologies to you, young one. =)

 

[LukeSettle]

Regarding your books, I think that you are using too many of them, and you should focus on one program at a time.

Hmm, well I have read through all of them fully except for my particle books.
I guess ill just refine what i know.

I don't think you are not the only one to teach yourself on your "free time" as all of us have our occupations. The thing is to learn on a regular basis.

Good point.

Appart from that, some people might be native speakers but it's difficult to explain some of the subtleties of the Japanese language. Try to ask an ordinary Japanese why they use 窶禿 to count certain things or when to use 窶堋ｲ or 窶堋ｨ in front of some terms to sound more polite and you'll understand what I mean.

Sure because those things dont directly translate into English.

And I am sure that if you were to work from Monday to Friday (sometimes Saturday) from 8am till 9-11pm (add 2hours of commuting to that) in a 100% english speaking environment you will *not* improve as much as you expect.

I think if my native language was not English, then my English would definitely improve. If I were to work from Monday to Friday from 8 to 9 in a 100% Japanese speaking environment, I would improve with a lot less effort than studying in a non Japanese speaking country.

"Petit à petit, l'oiseau fait son nid", everybody has his or her own learning pace. The most important is the satisfaction you get from learning something and applying it. As long as you're satisfied with what you've learned so far then it's alright

Yeah, thats a very good point, seeing as I didn't start studying Japanese to pass the JLPT.

Then I offer my appologies to you, young one. =)

Sorry for getting so worked up

 

[dreamer]

Hmm, well I have read through all of them fully except for my particle books.
I guess ill just refine what i know.

That's not really what I mean
You may have read through them but do you remember at least half of what you have read?
Language books are not just simple books, and it'd be good if you remember at least 70-80% of the vocabulary and grammar points that are inside. If you do that, I am sure that passing the next JLPT level will be as easy as remembering your name.

I think if my native language was not English, then my English would definitely improve. If I were to work from Monday to Friday from 8 to 9 in a 100% Japanese speaking environment, I would improve with a lot less effort than studying in a non Japanese speaking country.

The point is that these are my current conditions, and I *am* living in Japan...

Yeah, thats a very good point, seeing as I didn't start studying Japanese to pass the JLPT.

The JLPT shouldn't be an objective in my opinion. As its name suggests, it's just a measure of your general abilities in Japanese, and not something used to "rank" you (which sadly is the way some Japanese companies see it, ie: oh this foreigner is 1kyuu, he must be better than the 2kyuu).

Although this might be irrelevant for the 1kyuu, I consider it as a checklist of the elementary points you absolutely need to know when studying Japanese.

 

[bakaKanadajin]

The JLPT shouldn't be an objective in my opinion. As its name suggests, it's just a measure of your general abilities in Japanese, and not something used to "rank" you (which sadly is the way some Japanese companies see it, ie: oh this foreigner is 1kyuu, he must be better than the 2kyuu).

I agree with you to a certain degree. I think the JLPT could be made into a better measure of Japanese ability, but in its current format I think it also has a great deal of merit.

For one, it's the best way to measure literacy, which is the number one concern of the Japanese since their literacy rate is incredibly high. If you can't read then what good are you really?... is what the JLPT is saying. And to a degree they're both right and wrong - speaking is crucial but despite speaking being infinitely more difficult than reading it's still possilble to speak poorly and communicate effectively.

By contrast, poor reading skills often result in completely not understanding something, it's all or nothing with regards to literacy. You get the point or you miss it, you know the kanji or you don't. I think this is what hte JLPT is trying to gauge, your ability to accurately 'intake' instructions, not 'output' your opinion (typical Japanese methodology but hey, it's the JLPT).

So, to work at a company, that is, being able to correctly read memorandum, instructions, manuals, emails, etc., the JLPT is the standard tool for gauging how close to a native speaker a foreign learner is going to get.

Off topic, what other tests are there besides the JLPT? Anything with a speaking component? I've heard rumor of a business test.

 

[LukeSettle]

That's not really what I mean
You may have read through them but do you remember at least half of what you have read?
Language books are not just simple books, and it'd be good if you remember at least 70-80% of the vocabulary and grammar points that are inside. If you do that, I am sure that passing the next JLPT level will be as easy as remembering your name.

I agree, that's what I was saying by refine. Reread, enter all the sentences and vocabulary into my srs. And reread again.

The point is that these are my current conditions, and I *am* living in Japan...

That was my point too...

The JLPT shouldn't be an objective in my opinion. As its name suggests, it's just a measure of your general abilities in Japanese, and not something used to "rank" you (which sadly is the way some Japanese companies see it, ie: oh this foreigner is 1kyuu, he must be better than the 2kyuu).

I think it is a good waystone to judge yourself. But I agree, if a person is studying only to pass the jlpt they're studying for the wrong reason.

 

[dreamer]

bakaKanadajin:

Indeed, but the problem with these tests is that there is always a possibility to obtain high scores by continuously redoing the tests from past years (maybe not for the 1kyuu though).

However, most of the time, people do not speak Japanese like they teach you in books. So far, from what I've seen, it's been either keigo or the casual language. The only exceptions might be in a small office with the boss and employees in the same room.

Also, I know people who look surprisingly good at speaking (ie: seemed to know what they were saying, Japanese people undersanding them, good speed and pretty good pronounciation), and still...these people didn't pass the 1kyuu.

Regarding your question, I know of the BJT which has a 15minutes interview for candidates who pass the first part of the test with a certain score.
There is also the EJU but its target is mainly people who are aiming to integrate a Japanese university, and since it's dealing with matters such as Japanese history and so on, I doubt the passing rate is very high...

That's all I can think of...

LukeSettle:

I guess all's been said. Good luck in your learning

 

[bakaKanadajin]

bakaKanadajin:

Indeed, but the problem with these tests is that there is always a possibility to obtain high scores by continuously redoing the tests from past years (maybe not for the 1kyuu though).

I don't see what's wrong with that. I plan on taking the 1級 many times over until I get better than 90%, it's a personaｌ thing but just passing at 60 would leave me feeling like I didn't really make it. The higher you ｓｃore in coming years (as they make the test more difficult) would be good ｔo keep up wouldn't it？

Why anyone would bother re-taking below the 1級 is beyond me, might as well just take hte next level up. 70% on the 3 is better than 100% on the 4.

 

[dreamer]

I don't see what's wrong with that. I plan on taking the 1級 many times over until I get better than 90%, it's a personaｌ thing but just passing at 60 would leave me feeling like I didn't really make it. The higher you ｓｃore in coming years (as they make the test more difficult) would be good ｔo keep up wouldn't it？

Why anyone would bother re-taking below the 1級 is beyond me, might as well just take hte next level up. 70% on the 3 is better than 100% on the 4.

If it's just personnal, I totally agree with you.

However how about people who manage to obtain the 2級 only because they have been doing the tests of the past years again and again?
That's what I don't really like about MCQ standardized tests.

I have met some of these people who passed the 3級 because by doing the tests over and over again, they memorized some of the answers and managed to pull through it barely.
However is that how you would like to pass the test?

I am sure you plan on passing the 1級 with a 90% to test your level, and not because you have memorized some answers that you'll forget soon after, sadly that's not what many people think when taking the 2級...most of them want it just to find a job in Japan.