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JLPT waste of time thread

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The7thSamurai

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Levels 3 and 4 (and 2, for that matter), are wastes of time. However, they are wastes of other people's time which don't inconvenience others in any way whatsoever and in which you are more than welcome to engage. Goodness knows, at some point in all our lives we end up doing something that appears a total waste of time to at least some segment of the rest of the planet.

I think you're confusing "waste of time" with "hobby". "Waste of time" is far too harsh a word to use for someone who's challenging themself in such a way. By your way of thinking, just about everything is a "waste of time", which is such a negative way to think. I'm glad I don't have to hang around you all day, otherwise you might say the nice lunch I made myself is a "waste of time" because a simple piece of fruit and a slice of bread would have been sufficient. Even further, that way of thinking is the very seed that grows into the destructive "good enough" attitude that never produces anything new, which eventually grows stagnant and dies.
 

Elizabeth

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I think you're confusing "waste of time" with "hobby". "Waste of time" is far too harsh a word to use for someone who's challenging themself in such a way. By your way of thinking, just about everything is a "waste of time", which is such a negative way to think. I'm glad I don't have to hang around you all day, otherwise you might say the nice lunch I made myself is a "waste of time" because a simple piece of fruit and a slice of bread would have been sufficient. Even further, that way of thinking is the very seed that grows into the destructive "good enough" attitude that never produces anything new, which eventually grows stagnant and dies.
Technically I suppose what would be considered a waste would be the length of the tests themselves which is no more than a few hours, or day at most, so the time element alone isn't enough to justify maligning the practice and its adherants. Some folks just need the motivation and recognition of feeling "credentialed" in that way. I personally find other methods to challenge myself and once getting to the point of being able to pass with confidence, knowing what I can do and not do, wouldn't feel a particular need to formalize the end goal. But everyone is different and to the extent they aren't studying Japanese only for the experience or pleasure of sitting for an exam, which I seriously doubt, anyone who feels different is still working from the same material and learning the same language....So I still don't get why the subject of the JLPT always has to be brought up in this way... :?
 

Mike Cash

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Err, 'wastes of time'? Shouldn't that be used whenever there's more than one subject matter and when in abstract instead...

Did you read the beginning of the sentence or did you just start right in the middle?
 

Mike Cash

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I think you're confusing "waste of time" with "hobby".

I think you decided to get your panties in a wad before you finished reading my post. You couldn't have been thinking rationally when you wrote that.

"Waste of time" is far too harsh a word to use for someone who's challenging themself in such a way.

The tests are a waste of time. They're meaningless. I could even make an argument that they're counterproductive.

I didn't grow up in the touchy-feely '90s, so I don't spend a lot of time worrying about if somebody finds my frank opinion to be harsh or not.

By your way of thinking, just about everything is a "waste of time", which is such a negative way to think. I'm glad I don't have to hang around you all day, otherwise you might say the nice lunch I made myself is a "waste of time" because a simple piece of fruit and a slice of bread would have been sufficient.

No.....there you go letting that wad of knickers in your crack derail your critical reading skills again. I wouldn't give a damn about your lunch one way or the other so long as it didn't affect my own lunch. That much should be obvious from my post.

Even further, that way of thinking is the very seed that grows into the destructive "good enough" attitude that never produces anything new, which eventually grows stagnant and dies.

Where that particular leap of logic comes from isn't worth guessing at.

By the way, using two spaces after periods died together with the manual typewriter.
 

Supervin

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Did you read the beginning of the sentence or did you just start right in the middle?
Hmm, actually I did read the whole thing like I always do.

I guess I just found the use of 'wastes of time' rare, compared to 'waste' (since similar activities are usually grouped into one as 'a waste'), where the former is used for a diverse range of activities - say, if someone listed all their different ways to waste time.
 

Mike Cash

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Hmm, actually I did read the whole thing like I always do.
I guess I just found the use of 'wastes of time' rare, compared to 'waste' (since similar activities are usually grouped into one as 'a waste'), where the former is used for a diverse range of activities - say, if someone listed all their different ways to waste time.

"Levels 3 and 4 (and 2, for that matter), are wastes of time."

Even ignoring the part in parentheses, that's a plural subject.
 

The7thSamurai

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I think you decided to get your panties in a wad before you finished reading my post. You couldn't have been thinking rationally when you wrote that.
The tests are a waste of time. They're meaningless. I could even make an argument that they're counterproductive.
I didn't grow up in the touchy-feely '90s, so I don't spend a lot of time worrying about if somebody finds my frank opinion to be harsh or not.
No.....there you go letting that wad of knickers in your crack derail your critical reading skills again. I wouldn't give a damn about your lunch one way or the other so long as it didn't affect my own lunch. That much should be obvious from my post.
Where that particular leap of logic comes from isn't worth guessing at.
By the way, using two spaces after periods died together with the manual typewriter.

Consider my situation, and the situation for many others. I'm interested in learning Japanese, for no more a reason than learning. Knowing that there's a formalised test gives me more structure in my learning, gives me something to aim for and keeps me motivated. Therefore, studying for the JLPT, no matter what level, is constructive and beneficial.

By the way, I remember my high school English teacher teaching us that if the other party uses ad hominem arguements such as "using two spaces after periods died together with the manual typewriter" in a debate, it's a sure sign that you've won the debate. So thanks for the good match :)
 

Mike Cash

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Good for you for being interested in learning Japanese. Good for you for finding some use in the JLPT. I never said you shouldn't study Japanese or that you shouldn't take the test.

If you think pointing out that your typing conventions are antiquated constitutes an ad hominem attack, you're even more delicate than I thought.

Out of curiosity, where did you pick up such a dinosaur of a habit? Are you old enough to have learned typing back when two spaces was the norm? When I learned typing in high school ('80-'81) we still used manual and electric typewriters and using two spaces was one of the habits I had to break later on.
 

Glenn

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I used "Typing Tutor" in the late '80s, but I think I learned about that from some style book around high school. I don't remember too well.
 

Mike Cash

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Glenn

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Heh, I never actually took a class on it, and I'm really wondering where I learned that from now.
 

The7thSamurai

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Out of curiosity, where did you pick up such a dinosaur of a habit? Are you old enough to have learned typing back when two spaces was the norm? When I learned typing in high school ('80-'81) we still used manual and electric typewriters and using two spaces was one of the habits I had to break later on.

I remember when my family got our first computer when I was 15 or so my dad told me to double-space after a full stop. It's been a habit ever since. In fact, you bringing it up was the first time I'd really thought about it in years. Maybe I should stop doing it?...

Full stop - Wikipedia

nah...
 

Mike Cash

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I remember when my family got our first computer when I was 15 or so my dad told me to double-space after a full stop. It's been a habit ever since.

That explains it. I'm guessing your dad is my age or above?
 

Supervin

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"Levels 3 and 4 (and 2, for that matter), are wastes of time."
Even ignoring the part in parentheses, that's a plural subject.
Naturally, I can see that.

What I meant was that these Levels all belonged to one common topic of JLPT, so they can be referred to as 'a waste of time' in bulk. This is in contrast to, for example, if had said 'JLPT Levels and procrastination are wastes of time', which would involve two diverse topics.
 

Elizabeth

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Naturally, I can see that.
What I meant was that these Levels all belonged to one common topic of JLPT, so they can be referred to as 'a waste of time' in bulk. This is in contrast to, for example, if had said 'JLPT Levels and procrastination are wastes of time', which would involve two diverse topics.
I don't think it's too strange although it is generally more natural to say "Levels 3 and 4 (even 2) are both (all) wastes of time" or if this was in response to argument that only one was a waste of time but the other(s) were useful with the plural emphasizing the statement's inclusiveness ("on the contrary, all of them are wastes of your time").
 

Supervin

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I don't think it's too strange although it is generally more natural to say "Levels 3 and 4 (even 2) are both (all) wastes of time" or if this was in response to argument that only one was a waste of time but the other(s) were useful with the plural emphasizing the statement's inclusiveness ("on the contrary, all of them are wastes of your time").
Hmm, okay. It's just, personally, I hear people lumping things into one whole 'waste' all the time.

But I know where you're coming from. I suppose it's also a good device for literary emphasis to call them 'wastes'.
 

Mike Cash

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Naturally, I can see that.
What I meant was that these Levels all belonged to one common topic of JLPT, so they can be referred to as 'a waste of time' in bulk. This is in contrast to, for example, if had said 'JLPT Levels and procrastination are wastes of time', which would involve two diverse topics.

Hint: I didn't include Level 1.

Hint 2: Your perception is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Under your way of looking at it, "Sacks of corn are bags of grain" would have to be "Sacks of corn are bag of grain".
 

Supervin

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Hint: I didn't include Level 1.
Hint 2: Your perception is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
Under your way of looking at it, "Sacks of corn are bags of grain" would have to be "Sacks of corn are bag of grain".
LOL, your analogy is completely irrelevant.

This is because 'a waste of time' is an irregular expression, just like how people say 'stuff', which works for both single and plural subjects.

So you could say 'X, Y and Z are a waste of time' or 'that stuff is X, Y and Z'.

Whether or not you include 'Level 1' is also irrelevant. Like I said, the Levels all belong to a common topic of JLPT.

Looks like you're the one who should be taking hints instead...
 

Mike Cash

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LOL, your analogy is completely irrelevant.
This is because 'a waste of time' is an irregular expression, just like how people say 'stuff', which works for both single and plural subjects.
So you could say 'X, Y and Z are a waste of time' or 'that stuff is X, Y and Z'.
Whether or not you include 'Level 1' is also irrelevant. Like I said, the Levels all belong to a common topic of JLPT.
Looks like you're the one who should be taking hints instead...

What is clearly a waste of time is attempting to explain a very simple aspect of basic English to someone so obtuse.
 

Davey

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Well the first one probably isn't a waste of time, are the other levels a waste of time?

Please continue here you guys!
 

undrentide

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LDOCE (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English) says it is either singular or uncountable when the word "waste" is used in this kind of sense...

waste | meaning of waste in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English | LDOCE

Or could it be different in British English and American English?
(Or it is just my misinterpretation of the dictionary?? :emoji_joy: - after all I'm not a native speaker! :emoji_blush: :emoji_blush: :emoji_blush: )

Just out of my curiosity. Would be grateful if someone could shed light on it!
:emoji_bow:
 

Glenn

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In my personal view, either way works, but the way of thinking of it is different.
 

Elizabeth

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LDOCE (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English) says it is either singular or uncountable when the word "waste" is used in this kind of sense...
waste | meaning of waste in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English | LDOCE
Or could it be different in British English and American English?
(Or it is just my misinterpretation of the dictionary?? :emoji_joy: - after all I'm not a native speaker! :emoji_blush: :emoji_blush: :emoji_blush: )
Just out of my curiosity. Would be grateful if someone could shed light on it!
:emoji_bow:
Like Glenn said I don't have as much of a problem with making the plural form (are wastes) as others seem to either unless it is considered uncountable and therefore grammatically a bulk item (stuff, money, space, time etc).
 
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