Japanese work culture is there harrassment from bosses to younger employees?

[CNC_Engineer]

Hi there, this is Daniel from Germany.

I work in a company that has a co working project with a company based in Japan.

Theres a delegation of 3 japanese people from this company here. 2 older people, I think higher ranks in their company,
and one younger one. I not see them much since it normally not my work topic, but had to fix something they were there too for some hours.
I have seen that they seem to treat the younger guy not that nice, kinda shout on him sometimes and he looks like hes very stressed.

I had no chance to talk to him in calm since they were always around him.

I wonder if this is normal in japanese working culture, that employees with lower ranks getting treaten like this.

Regards to all and thanks if someone has some clues for me.

 

[Majestic]

As you probably know, Japan is quite hierarchical. This is true of Japanese corporations too (particularly old, traditional organizations). This can manifest as abusive behavior from senior employees to junior employees. Nowadays there are internal guidelines against egregious abuse, but it should be no big surprise that elder/senior employees still feel entitled to speak harshly to newer employees (I think the older generation would view it as "guidance" or "leadership", and that they are only being harsh in order to teach the new employees the right way to do things). Well, those senior employees may not even view it as being "harsh". They might just do this naturally as that is how they were treated themselves when they first joined the company.

But it is an outdated way of thinking, to be sure. If your co-working company is an old-established one, the older employees may feel even more entitled to be strict with the new employees. AND, the new employees may be resigned to tolerate the abuse because the company is a prestigious one and the young employees are happy (overall) to be there. Also there is a strong cultural bias towards adapting to harsh conditions without complaint. The hope is that the tolerance will eventually pay off in some way. Its kind of how the cycle works. Someone who endures a decade or two of abuse, will be elevated to a point where that person can then abuse his own direct reports.

Again, mostly true only for old, traditional companies. And maybe organizations in rural locations. It's not true for every company.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

I think theres nothing I can do to help that young one out of this situation?
I heared about this hirachy something in the intercultural training, also the company is kinda old, they make robots nowdays, but I think
they more than 100 years old.

I think also any attempt to speak to that young guy will bring him in trouble?
Because I am interested in how he sees that, he really looked totally tired, but idk what the elder ones do if I go to him,
maybe ill try that if I have opportunity in the future.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

About the only thing I can think of to try is to find someone in a higher rank than the two older Japanese men that they would listen to and have them explain to the 2 elders that things are different in Germany and to be a bit kinder. Not sure even that would cause them to change their behavior and might cause hard feelings. Probably better to just not get involved at all as hard as that is to do for you. I always want to help the underdog but have learned there are some situations you just can't win.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

That is the hard thing about it. I am not enough involved in the theme that I can speak to someone of higher rank.
I know the two of the delegation can do nothing against me because also part of japanese culture is to save face, I dont think they would go
against a worker of a partner company, the question is, what that causes on the long run. Maybe ill try to invite that guy if theres a opportunity to do so.

I am honestly afraid since he really seem to suffer from that, he shows severe signs of overstressing, but idk how or if theres something I can do without cause a disaaster for the future of that co working.

I think the only way to get to speak with him is to try to invite him probably on weekend or so, I hope the other two have to do something else then, so he may have time

 

[Lothor]

Hi Daniel,

Having lived in Japan for 20 years and both worked for a Japanese company and proofread ESG reports (in English) of large Japanese companies, I'd say that there's definitely a hierarchy in terms of governance, with the well-known Japanese public limited companies that many people outside Japan will have heard of at the top - they'll even have anonymous harassment helplines and take allegations of bullying very seriously - and the family-run firms (of all sizes) at the bottom. Yours sounds somewhere in the middle.

Please do invite the guy out for a beer or for a bit of sightseeing if you can. It's up to you whether to raise the issues with him (I probably would, but I wouldn't push it if he's reluctant to talk). He'll probably be delighted to see a bit of Germany and have some company, and sometimes Japanese people will open up to foreigners in a way that they won't to other Japanese people.

Thanks again for your concern - I'm really glad you posted your question.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

Please do invite the guy out for a beer or for a bit of sightseeing if you can. It's up to you whether to raise the issues with him

Thats what I planned, just the question where to go with him?
Hes so tired it doesnt look like it good for him to be around somewhere, he not even really sees where hes going in work already, since he almost falls asleep there, that why I so concerned. Idk where I can go with him and what he likes

 

[CNC_Engineer]

I have watched that today again, and confirmed my assumption. He is extremely tired, idk why.
I gave him my number in a moment there was time and the other two didnt see it.
If I wanna ask him to go somewhere, where would that probably be? Idk how to meet that with his tiredness,
he looks like hes falling asleep while working

 

[Lothor]

I have watched that today again, and confirmed my assumption. He is extremely tired, idk why.
I gave him my number in a moment there was time and the other two didnt see it.
If I wanna ask him to go somewhere, where would that probably be? Idk how to meet that with his tiredness,
he looks like hes falling asleep while working

FOOD! Honestly, the Japanese are obsessed with it.

Offer to take him to a pub, cafe or restaurant that does TRADITIONAL GERMAN FOOD (i.e., ordinary German food), and I'm certain he'll be up for it!

 

[CNC_Engineer]

Ill try that as soon as I have opportunity.

He has wroten back to me on my number a message but wrote just hello. I will maybe when hes back in hotel today afternoon
write back, so the others dont notice it and ask him if he wants to go somewhere with me, there some restaurants and pubs here,
so finding one to visit is not a problem.

 

[Lothor]

Ill try that as soon as I have opportunity.

He has wroten back to me on my number a message but wrote just hello. I will maybe when hes back in hotel today afternoon
write back, so the others dont notice it and ask him if he wants to go somewhere with me, there some restaurants and pubs here,
so finding one to visit is not a problem.

Do let us know how it goes!

 

[CNC_Engineer]

Do let us know how it goes!

You mean I should send him invitation now? I dont understand why he just wrote hello. Shyness?

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Not sure if it's an issue , but he might be more comfortable going with a small group of your friends to start with rather just one on one.

 

[Lothor]

You mean I should send him invitation now? I dont understand why he just wrote hello. Shyness?

I mean that I'm interested in the situation and hope you're able to help this guy in some way. He probably wrote 'hello' because he wasn't sure what to say but would like to communicate. I suggest replying with an invite.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

but he might be more comfortable going with a small group of your friends

Hmm, maybe thats an issue, but that will be hard to solve, I have no friends to go out with, if you would search me in a movie then I would be the one
with the data glasses on, that is around in the company like a shadow make things working in the background and has hobbies so much in tech that others widely not interested. Thats why I have no friends to go out (Actually I have no friends at all, are more a loner but thats another story) I just not wanna see him suffering it hurts me, so I wanna help, but idk how.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

I suggest replying with an invite.

I will invite him, then ill see what he says

 

[Grandpa Frank]

At 73 , I've outlived all my friends , LOL. One of the great things I love about JREF , is the number of friends I've made here over the last 20 years. Having friends here and on Facebook has been a good substitute for no face to face friends.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

Do let us know how it goes!

I will

 

[CNC_Engineer]

I wrote a invitation to him, he replied and asked me if he can visit my home?!
Is that normal in Japan? I have heared that among some circumstances thats common but afaik only among highest rank people
and the high rank people of the other side, like the boss of the japanese company visits the home of the boss of the german compny?

 

[Lothor]

I wrote a invitation to him, he replied and asked me if he can visit my home?!
Is that normal in Japan? I have heared that among some circumstances thats common but afaik only among highest rank people
and the high rank people of the other side, like the boss of the japanese company visits the home of the boss of the german compny?

That does surprise me! Visiting homes is not really related to rank, but it's less common in Japan for people to visit each other's homes than in Western countries, and entering the house of another person is an act of some significance. Even my in-laws (whom I get on well with) will say o-jama shimasu (I am disturbing you) when they enter our house. It would be extremely rare in Japan (and probably rare in Germany too!) to ask for an invite to someone's house.

I'd reply to him with something like 'Would a restaurant be OK?' if you don't want to invite him to your house.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

Idk why he asked me like that, that confuses me a lil.
It not like I not feel well if he visits me, but as you already mention, it wonders me a lil why he asks that.
I will think about it and then see what ill do.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

I have wroten him back if he likes to go out somewhere with me, he wrote back nevermind.
I have no idea whats up there at all also I have no idea why hes so interested in going home to me.

Anyone here have some idea what to do?

 

[thomas]

As Lothor suggested, I'd take him to some local "Kneipe" and introduce him to Bavarian lager. I'm pretty sure that he'll open up after a few brews. If he declines, well, there's only so much you can do.

 

[CNC_Engineer]

I will ask him why he not like to meet me publically, maybe Ill find out thy, otherwise, as you said, theres nothing I can do more.

Is in Japan drinking to open up normal?

 

[thomas]

Is in Japan drinking to open up normal?

Yes, it is. Or rather, it used to be. Nowadays, young Japanese are more reluctant to spend private time with colleagues or to indulge in drinking alcohol.

Here's a good overview of what nomikai ("drinking parties") used to be:

Complete Guide to Nomikai | KiMi

From super strict rules to bosses going crazy, many rumors surround nomikai, Japanese drinking parties. Nomikai are a place where the formal working culture is relaxed and people get drunk and talk…

kimi.wiki