Japanese public toilets really annoys me

DoctorP · 8 May 2008

Zirdante said:
How tall are you, if I may ask?

I'm 186.5cm

You are a little taller than me. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm on display, but the fact that I can see them makes things a little unsettling.

Bunshinsaba · 13 May 2008

I lived so many countries and I find Japan is a nice country. Not bad!
But, I really dislike Japanese public toilets.
These kind of public toilet bowls keep me from going there.

So? Don't go then.

This is a culture shock. Korea does have these kind things, but most of them were replaced with Western style toilet bowls.

Let's do this the other way. Let's list things in Amercia and other countries that should be replaced for the comfort of Japanese people. How absurd and ignorant would it sound if this toilet rant were pitched in the other direction? . . . In public areas throughout America, all sit-down toilets, which are unsanitary to sit on, should be replaced with the Japanese squat version.

Huh... tourist Imperialism.

Nuff said.

Chidoriashi · 13 May 2008

Bunshinsaba> this isnt a cultural argument this is about the practicality and mechanics of a restroom system. Many Japanese people I know prefer western style over Japanese style. Your example, while amusing, really doesnt make sense cuz the majority of people have nothing to complain about with Western style toilets.

Bunshinsaba · 14 May 2008

Chidoriashi said:
Bunshinsaba> this isnt a cultural argument this is about the practicality and mechanics of a restroom system. .

And that would be practicality according to whom? Every Japanese person in the country? And was it an unanimous decision?

Chidoriashi said:
Many Japanese people I know prefer western style over Japanese style. .

And I could counter by saying that I know many Japanese that prefer the traditional style.

Chidoriashi said:
Your example, while amusing, really doesnt make sense cuz the majority of people have nothing to complain about with Western style toilets.

This whole thingy is not about the number of Japanese people who do or don't complain about the style of toilet in the local restroom. This is about some foreigner's comment about how Japan should "use what the West does" (ie sit down toilets); a statement that was rudely reinforced by some off handed fact that Korea has already begun to switch their toilets to the Western style.
Bottom line... don't come to Japan and amidst casual conversation start slipping in little rude jabs about how they should Westernize (toilets or otherwise).... and then add further insult and arrogance by using Korea as a measuring stick. I can state with complete confidence that that is exactly the type of Western arrogance and thinking that Japanese people hate. How do I know this? 10 years working here and a Japanese wife.

Goldiegirl · 14 May 2008

It seems to me that some Japanese are embarrassed by the Japanese squat toilets. We had been out drinking and were at the train station, well as nature took it's course I had to use the toilet asap or risk a puddle on the train. The gentleman I was with was very upset, he kept saying, that I shouldn't go there in the station toilet because they are filthy squat toilets, and that we should walk to a nice department store, and use their restroom. Well when you gotta go, you gotta go and it doesn't matter what kind of toilet it is just so I don't wet my pants! This scenario has happened to me a few times. I couldn't care less about the toilet, just as long as there is one handy! Another thing, If I want to use a sit down toilet there is usually a long line...and it ain't just us foreigners waiting.........

Chidoriashi · 14 May 2008

Bunshinsaba> Well, I'm not the one who made those comments. I'm strictly speaking about the practicality and ease use of the Japanese style facilities. And telling me you have lived here for 10 years, and have a Japanese wife doesnt make me take your opinions anymore seriously than I already would. I've lived here for 4 years and have been closely involved with Japanese people for 8... so what??

Anyway I have probably been inside 20 different Japanese homes, and all but one that was basically an old farm house, had Western style toliets. Why would that be now? If Japanese people loved old Japanese style toilets so much then why have they not developed those to take away poo smell and wash your butthole for you? Or take this example, every time I go to use the restroom at work the Western style toilet is occupied first. In fact, I work in a 5 story building and one day I had to go up to the 5th floor before i found the Western one unoccupied. And all of the Japanese style ones on were not occupied. My point is that it seems to me most people generally prefer Western style ones to Japanese ones ( I know you said that is not the point of your post- and again I did not make those comments). But the point of my post is that I think the Western style ones are better. In fact the only real argument that I think holds up for the Japanese style ones is that they use less water. And knowing how Japan is about conservation... that is probably the real reason they continue to make them.

diceke · 14 May 2008

The reason that many Japanese homes now have sit-down toilets is that home toilets are easy to maintain, and the only people who would share the toilets with you are your family members. I don't want to share toilet seats with random strangers, unless they are thoroughly cleaned, and that's for sanitary reasons!! I guess that is why many public toilets are squat types.

Bunshinsaba · 15 May 2008

Chidoriashi said:
Bunshinsaba> Well, I'm not the one who made those comments. I'm strictly speaking about the practicality and ease use of the Japanese style facilities..

Well that is not what I was/am talking about; I'm talking about how foreigners should think twice, long, and hard before they open their mouth and try and tell people of other countries how to live, act, or think

Chidoriashi said:
And telling me you have lived here for 10 years, and have a Japanese wife doesnt make me take your opinions anymore seriously than I already would. I've lived here for 4 years and have been closely involved with Japanese people for 8... so what??

So what?? There are more than enough Japan-o-philes on message boards who think their language studies and love of anime and sushi are reasonable subsitutes for having lived and worked with the natives right here in Japan - they're not. I state that about myself because it adds credibility and validation to what i say and let's people know that what I say comes from experience and not a travel guide.

Pachipro · 15 May 2008

Personally I prefer wester style toilets, but as Goldigirl mentioned, "when you gotta go, ya gotta go!", so I care not what type of toilet is available.

When I moved into my first apartment in Japan some 31 years ago all I had was a flush type Japanese squat toilet. I didn't much care for it, but when you want to live in Japan, you live like a Japanese would. Unless you want to live like a foreigner, with all the comforts of home, as many do, you take it and don't whine about it.

I got used to it even though it was hard on my hamstrings at times. I just learned to hold onto the pipe and make sure to take my wallet out of my back pocket!

In public, even today, I'll take whatever is available when the need arises. In fact, back then, in the majority of houses, there was only an open-pit squat type as a flush squat toilet was a luxury and a sit-down toilet was a godsend! I didn't complain (or even think about for that matter) as it was their country and their culture. I learned to adapt without whining about it to anyone who would listen.

Bunshinsaba · 15 May 2008

Pachipro said:
In public, even today, I'll take whatever is available when the need arises. In fact, back then, in the majority of houses, there was only an open-pit squat type as a flush squat toilet was a luxury and a sit-down toilet was a godsend! I didn't complain (or even think about for that matter) as it was their country and their culture. I learned to adapt without whining about it to anyone who would listen.

Cheers Pachipro... my point exactly; their country.... their culture... learn to adapt without whining!

Chidoriashi · 15 May 2008

Bunshinsaba> What I was trying to point out is that a deeper knowledge about a country and culture only learned through experience was not a necessary requirement for discussing restroom facility merits and flaws.

Chidoriashi · 15 May 2008

diceke> I understand peoples concerns about sanitation for the Western styles, but growing up in the West, I only had Western style as an option, so I just got in the habit of layering the seat with toilet paper. Anymore however facilities provide special seat covers, or even better now, seat cleaner. So I don't feel like it is such a worry anymore.

Chidoriashi · 15 May 2008

Actually, I don't know if you guys ever heard of a show call Myth Busters, here in Japan it is called 窶ｰﾃｶ窶堋ｵ窶堋｢窶彖ﾂ静?, but they did a test to find out which bathroom item had the most/least amount of fecal matter on it and the toilet seat ranked quite low, whereas a toothbrush ranked quite high... gross huh.? They said it is because every time a toilet is flushed a vapor is released into the air with fecal matter in it. Makes me appreciated the toilet being separate from the bath here in Japan. Then again, to my knowledge, I've never gotten any serious diseases from using a bath/toilet facility most of my life... still kinda gross to think about though.

Goldiegirl · 15 May 2008

You know, I don't mind what kind of toilet there is in the restroom, I just really wish they offered paper towels to dry your hands and not those darn air blowing useless, supposed hand driers. If you have like spare 5 minutes your hands will be dry using them! I like paper towels; yes they can be messy, but I want dry hands and I like to use the towel to open the door after I am done washing my hands, because a lot of people (you know who you are) don't wash their hands after using the toilet. I don't believe a quick splish splash of water constitutes clean hands. You need some soap and some scrubbing action. I am appalled at how many don't even splash a bit of water on their hands. (goes for all countries I have visited) Yuck!

Taiko666 · 15 May 2008

Bunshinsaba said:
Cheers Pachipro... my point exactly; their country.... their culture... learn to adapt without whining!

I've never subscribed to the view that, as a foreigner, one must never complain about any aspect of Japanese life. Of course, one should endeavour to avoid offending people... that's why if you have a gripe, letting off steam on JREF is better than possibly upsetting your Japanese family/friends/colleagues. (Their own views on Japanese toilets notwithstanding...)

Furthermore, I didn't see the OP suggesting that the Japanese should change their toilets for his benefit. He just said he didn't like them.

Bunshinsaba · 15 May 2008

Taiko666 said:
I've never subscribed to the view that, as a foreigner, one must never complain about any aspect of Japanese life.

Agreed... but I was referring to (complaining about) things because they are not Western enough or tourist friendly. Lord knows there are things to complain about if you really get down to it.

For example, foreign members of a Japanese company (who have been w/ the company for more than 10 years) being excluded from a company-paid group employee vacation because they are not Japanese and therefore they don't believe in working for a company for a long time like japanese people do, hence the value of the foreigner's work is not worth rewarding because they might quit at any time. Yes.. true story!!!! Demo... shoganai!!

pipokun · 15 May 2008

Do male Londoners go to public toilet?
I heard they show some modesty or patience till they go back to home.

Do Italians use the former resident's toilet seat when they rent a room?

So it is a bit difficult to define the word, Western, and Asian tourists are more here. I am a bit curious to know which toilet Asian tourists like, though.

diceke · 16 May 2008

But remember, the OP is not even "Western"?

Let's focus on the topic "sit-down toilets vs squat toilets".
It's not so much about "the West vs Japan"?

I've heard of these squat toilets being referred to as "Turkish toilets", and I've heard that the French also have these types in their country!

>OP
Overall, Japanese public toilets (of either types) are way better than Korean ones (of either types). You know that in Korea, people generally do not flush toilet paper down the toilet? Korean toilets "choke" when you try do that, so you have to place the used toilet paper in a waste basket! That is sanitary!

Restroom Culture in China, Korea, Japan
http://www.fsb.muohio.edu/mis399/Student/Reading files/culturalshock.htm

Pachipro · 16 May 2008

Taiko666 said:
I've never subscribed to the view that, as a foreigner, one must never complain about any aspect of Japanese life. Of course, one should endeavour to avoid offending people... that's why if you have a gripe, letting off steam on JREF is better than possibly upsetting your Japanese family/friends/colleagues.

I quite agree with you Taiko666 as I often had my own complaints about Japan and we all know we can come up with many. Perhaps I used the wrong word (whining) and over reacted a bit as I have had my fill of complaints from foreigners while I lived in Japan who were constantly putting down the Japanese and their culture because it didn't fit with their view of their world. Heck, most didn't even take the time to learn the language or culture.

My point is that when it becomes whining about Japan and the culture (as many a foreigner tend to do) and demanding that they change their ways to suit our ways or what we are comfortable with is where I have a problem.

My view always has been, and will always remain that, if one desires to live in a foreign country, one accepts that country and culture for what it is or else go back home. I'm sorry if this rubs some the wrong way, but it is how I've always felt and, even though I may not agree with everything about Japan, I accept Japan and the Japanese for the way they are and in all my years I never really encountered any obstacle that I could not overcome including their toilets and being turned down for an apartment.

For example, when I visit a foreign country I want to experience it as a native would, and not be treated as a westerner and made to feel like I was home. If I felt that way then why even visit a foreign county? Why not just "visit" it in video on YouTube or on TV or in a restaurant in your own country? Then I would not feel uncomfortable because there was not a "western" toilet in my hotel room.

Further, when I first encountered a Japanese toilet I was thrilled because, even though I was a little uncomfortable with it (and never really got used to it in the long run), I was experiencing the real Japan. Not a glossed over western version.

The same went for my first apartment. I felt I was living as a Japanese would with the toilet in my apartment. I did not hold out for a western toilet as a few of my aquaintances did. Even though they paid more for their place, they never truly experienced life as a Japanese would as some even bought a bed and a table and chairs and some even bought a sofa!

Me? I slept on a futon, sat at a kotatsu, and squatted and was extremely satisfied with my experience.

diceke · 16 May 2008

Pachipro said:
I quite agree with you Taiko666 as I often had my own complaints about Japan and we all know we can come up with many. Perhaps I used the wrong word (whining) and over reacted a bit as I have had my fill of complaints from foreigners while I lived in Japan who were constantly putting down the Japanese and their culture because it didn't fit with their view of their world. Heck, most didn't even take the time to learn the language or culture.

It's kind of off-topic, but I do think that some foreigners complain for no reason. They should know when to complain and when to keep it to themselves. I do not believe this forum is here for venting frustration. (But this forum is very strange, they allow irrational complaints, but complaining about the complaining is not allowed!)☝

senseiman · 16 May 2008

If you think the standard Japanese public is bad, get a load of this (incidentally this is the funniest thing I think I have ever seen):

Ashikaga · 16 May 2008

Growing up, our house , like the majority of all Japanese houses, only had the Japanese-style toilets, so when my family moved into a new house with the Western-style ones when I was 10 or so, it took me a while to get used to it. I now prefer the western-style for several reasons.

*It's easy to sit than to squat when you are wearing a tight pair of pants (leather, perhaps?), as I often do.

*The western ones stay "looking" clean compared to the Japanese ones.

*When you forget to lock the door, and I do that all the time, the western ones allow you an illusion of dignity in the eyes of the person who has opened the door without knocking.

*This last one only refers to the ones with the "bum-washing" features.
I still remember to this day the first time I ever used it. The sensation
that I had never experienced before when the warm water first hit the part of my anatomy that I had never seen myself (and never have even today)...
These days, I just don't feel "CLEAN" without blasting my *** with the warm jet stream of water set to "High". If you are in Japan and have not tried it yet, you MUST! They are great not only after doing the #2 but even when you just got that Not So Fresh feeling.

Even if the toilet in your house is not equipped with it, you can buy one fairly inexpensively at any of those "Home Centers" and installation is not that difficult.
:smoke:

Sensuikan San · 17 May 2008

diceke said:
But remember, the OP is not even "Western"?
Let's focus on the topic "sit-down toilets vs squat toilets".
It's not so much about "the West vs Japan"?
I've heard of these squat toilets being referred to as "Turkish toilets", and I've heard that the French also have these types in their country!]

Correct ... they also are used in Germany to a lesser degree, Italy and indeed many central European countries - the sole exceptions may be Britain and Ireland.

epigene · 17 May 2008

Sensuikan San said:
Correct ... they also are used in Germany to a lesser degree, Italy and indeed many central European countries - the sole exceptions may be Britain and Ireland.

Interesting!! I need to check those out!

During my one and only visit to Hong Kong several years ago, I discovered I had to squat down over a hole (yes! just a hole) with my legs on very thin planks when I went to powder my nose(?) at a McDonalds...

diceke · 18 May 2008

epigene said:
Interesting!! I need to check those out!

During my one and only visit to Hong Kong several years ago, I discovered I had to squat down over a hole (yes! just a hole) with my legs on very thin planks when I went to powder my nose(?) at a McDonalds...

Several years ago? Are you sure? You mean several decades ago?

Hong Kong public toilets are certainly not the best, but they aren't that primitive....

Japanese public toilets really annoys me

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