Japanese language. Where do I start?

Okay, there's plenty of threads here about this, but in most cases, the OP already had some idea of what they were doing.
Not me though.

I don't know ANY japanese.
And by that I mean zero/nada.
Anyway. . .
I already have Breaking into Japanese Literature in my hands and there should be a package arriving home (I'm at work) by now with Exploring Japanese Literature and Japanese Particle Workbook. And I belive I got ahead of myself when I bought the first 2 books I mentioned. :sorry:
I read the first pages up to the first story on Breaking into Japanese Literature and I closed the book right away when I saw the kanji. I then realized that book wouldn't help at all RIGHT NOW.
So I read on most beginner learner threads that I would need to learn kana first. Which is hiragana and katakana if my mind serves me right.
SOOOOOO. . .
With that said:
What are your recommendations to start learning japanese?
What books do you recommend?
What was your strategy when you started learning Japanese?

*EDIT*
Amazon is down for me. What the hell?

Bloody hell man, you're the first guy who got progressive and proper books on his first purchase.
Don't forget, Breaking into Japanese Literature will be as useful later, as useless it is now. Japanese Particle Workbook will give you lots of maneuverability, and dimensions.
Now, whats left is some basic grammar, just a little, and you don't have to learn the grammar, just follow it until the formulas slowly become obvious to you.
For this purpose, I recommend an integrated coursebook rubbish whatever, like Ultimate Japanese or Genki or God forgive, Japanese For Busy People.
I personally vote for Ultimate Japanese.
Its refreshing that someone asks for strategy, that speaks of creativity, you'll need that.
Now, first:
1, Get the basics down, don't bother much with vocab or kanji, just get the basics down.
This should take you like 2-4 months, finishing the particle workbook, and the two Ultimate Japanese books.
2, Now, you start grinding vocabulary and kanji. Just throw me a whisper if you're interested in my "handmade" kanji/vocab lists, they're decent.
Ok, at the same time, begin reading Breaking into Japanese Literature, and look up the kanji in Kodansha's Kanji Learners Dictionary (the "fattest" edition, oh yeah, buy this too) in case you want to learn its readings and stuff. Only do this if it occurs frequently, some of the kanji used in that book are not that common in things like manga and other mainstream stuff.
The second, Exploring Japanese Literature doesn't have numbers to the kanji in the dictionary, so you'll have a harder time with that, being forced to look for the kanji in the dic..

Use the readings to find them, there's a glossary in the end of the dic.

I must say this once again, I like your first approach, and the fact that you ask "What to buy?" and not, "Where to find free Japanese lessons that will make me fluent in 3 days?".
Keep it up.
Oh yeah lol, you need to learn kana, or at least hiragana for now, katakana can come later.

Breaking into Japanese Literature and Exploring Japanese Literature are definitely going on the list of books I have to get.

This is pretty decent advice. Although I know plenty of people who absolutely despise Genki, and it's not just because Mary-san is a total ho. Japanese for Busy People is okay, but it is more for someone taking a crash-course for business-trips and not for someone really intending to live there. I personally like Nakama, but I heard good things about Ultimate Japanese. There's another book a friend of mine who got his MA at UMass liked, but I can't remember what it was called.... Oh well.

The other thing I'd suggest is to bombard yourself with the language. Watch Japanese TV, see if you can't find a Japanese language partner, anything. Although you have to be careful. Unlike English, Japanese has a number of different speech patterns based on who you are and what your position is in relation to whom you are talking. If all you can get your hands on is anime, well, it's better than nothing. Just be aware, because you don't want to end up speaking like a 16-year-old schoolgirl or a 15th century samurai. Watch the stuff in English/with subtitles a few times, then start watching without them. Repeat a show a few times.

It's an investment of time and energy. Unfortunately, that is something I don't have tons of right now, so I've been awfully lax. Anyway, good luck.

Although I know plenty of people who absolutely despise Genki, and it's not just because Mary-san is a total ho.

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Although I do like Genki, I will back you up on this. Mary-san does have a tendancy to spread the love around gratuitiously...

Derfel said:

I must say this once again, I like your first approach, and the fact that you ask "What to buy?" and not, "Where to find free Japanese lessons that will make me fluent in 3 days?".
Keep it up.
Oh yeah lol, you need to learn kana, or at least hiragana for now, katakana can come later.

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Thank you for your advice. The literature books I bought will at some point help me out. Hence the "RIGHT NOW" capitalization. :3
And I ask for stuff to buy because I know how "free" stuff works. And who are we kidding, there is nothing free in this life. . .
Plus, spending some bucks on myself isn't that much of a big deal. That's why I started to work in the first place, to get money for myself.

And I will surely take you up on that offer. So expect my invite pretty soon.

Now that Amazon is back up and running, I shall go shopping for more books.

GodEmperorLeto said:

It's an investment of time and energy. Unfortunately, that is something I don't have tons of right now, so I've been awfully lax. Anyway, good luck.

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Although I have no idea of who Mary-san is, I found that really funny.
If I really want to learn Japanese, time and energy is the least I could care about.
Although, with me working 55 hours a week, time could be a problem for me.
Then again, my workplace is a brand new store and I don't get that many customers in, so I have lots of free time.
Hmmm. . .
For me to learn and fulfill job requirements at the same time. . .
Am I lucky or what?

Thank you both!

GodEmperorLeto said:

Just be aware, because you don't want to end up speaking like a 15th century samurai.

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That would be cool actually.

Well, the only thing thats free is the cheese in the mousetrap. : D

And I'd like to add another thing.
Most people say you can't learn Japanese from anime... thats not entirely true.
Indeed, you can't learn it from scratch just by watching anime, but once you understand some of the stuff (erggh, plenty of it, like 70% it'll be a great help, because you'll learn words and formulas that are used often in anime, in general, so you'll have to struggle to forget it)

Derfel said:

Indeed, you can't learn it from scratch just by watching anime, but once you understand some of the stuff

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It'll help, but like I said, beware. Sometimes they say things that wouldn't make sense outside of the context of the show. This is true of TV in any language, but especially of anime.

Part of the problem with Japanese TV is their penchant for melodrama. Although I'm a big fan of Densha Otoko, I have a hard time believing that a Japanese dude, even an otaku, would cry that openly, easily, or often, in public. Overacting is a staple of Japanese TV, whereas in the West it's seen as "hamming it up." Hence, sometimes people say/do things on TV that wouldn't be normal for real life. Thus, take anything televised with a grain of salt when learning Japanese.

Roboto-sama said:

If I really want to learn Japanese, time and energy is the least I could care about.
Although, with me working 55 hours a week, time could be a problem for me.

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Another piece of advice I'd give is spend time there. This, however is easier said than done. Hence, I'm having a tough time taking my own advice because I'm a grad student with no money. That, and, it's hard to travel back in time to ancient Rome (I study Latin, too).

Anyway, there's a book published by Kodansha that a friend just recommended to me, but I can't remember the title. It is a comprehensive guide to commonly misunderstood/confused Japanese words and phrases, and it looked awesome. It was even published in that Japanese style, with the plasticy dust jacket and everything. But I'll be darned if I can find it.

A final piece of advice I'd give is when you've reached a suitable level of understanding, start reading. Reading will force you to build your vocabulary (both of words and of kanji). I've been doing this for French and Latin, and it's helped immensely, but my Japanese isn't up to snuff enough for me to hit this level of proficiency.

GodEmperorLeto said:

my Japanese isn't up to snuff enough for me to hit this level of proficiency.

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Thing is, once you can understand the function words and stuff, you might as well begin reading Breaking into Japanese Literature.
There's a huge gap between the Nights and In the Grove and an even bigger one between those and the other two chapters (more like other two works.), The Nose and Rashoumon, but the first two should be within reach whether you know the kanji or not.
If you have a kondansha dictionary, you can just look up the common kanji or plain learn them straight from the book, I did that, and it worked. I simply read and read and read it and I stopped to repeat the kanji in my head until I remembered it. It may sound boring, but once you have finished with it, you can just re-read it once more to put the whole picture together.
Having enrolled on a summer school course for uni access I won't have much time this summer either, but I'll try to maintain my level.

@Roboto-sama

As @GodEmperorLeto said, you must expose yourself to the language. Best thing would be to get soft sub anime, sure, you might pick some rude/weird stuff, but its always easier to not use something you know than to use something you don't.
Another thing: screw grammar to hell and back.
You're learning grammar to give your natural learning capabilities a push. If you stuff your head with too much grammar, you will start to translate and translate. Thats the worst thing, you can't translate, you can't lean on grammar.
If you're going to read stuff & watch anime, the main thing you'll need is vocabulary, actually whatever you'll do vocabulary is the main thing.
Its like a deity you must worship.


These are my word lists. There shouldn't be many mistakes because I checked it for typos.

There's no real order, but its advised to start from the first ones, as I tried to make them according to frequency (their frequency in manga, actually, if you do the first few ones, you'll take the Claymore vocabulary and jargon very well, as I used Claymore in the beginning lol).

Off hand, although I currently fall into the "learn japanese for free" programs (although I understand that it will take years doing it this way, not the 3 days, as was mentioned), I have finally found a program that really helps.
BYKI is a free language program I found. Quite honestly the words and such aren't all that great, but the presentation really helps me to learn it. It insists that you learn the proper showing of the word. If it's usually written in Kanji, then it'll teach you the kanji version, and assume that once you know the pronounciation you can spell it in hiragana if you require.
I also really like the fact that once you've bought into it, you can make your own lists to work with.
My laptop recently toppled to the ground and now I need to buy a new cord to make it work... Which unfortunately takes away from my cash to buy the above mentioned books... Ah well, next time.

Derfel said:

Thats the worst thing, you can't translate, you can't lean on grammar.

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Wow. I'm surprised I forgot to mention this, but it's absolutely true enough to be restated. Don't translate. Try to think in Japanese. Good technique is to watch a show and try to relax your mind and just take the language in, just like you do for your native tongue. Don't think about what the words mean, but just listen and absorb. If you start translating, you'll end up missing more than if you just relaxed.

Thank you guys. That is some great advice.
By the way, I surfed through Amazon yesterday and found Ultimate Japanese, and it is a book/cd pack. Is that the one you were talking about?
Also, what book should I buy to start learning from scratch? I already got my Japanese Particle Workbook and Exploring Japanese Literature books, but those aren't much help either right now, since I can't even read one single thing in moonspeak.

Ultimate Japanese will teach you from the beginning. And you don't have to buy the cd pack. Those cd's are rubbish unless you have no other source of spoken Japanese... which is damn unlikely if you have an interest in the language. You can get the book separately much cheaper, actually, it will be the cheapest if you choose one of the two in one amazon packages, as far as I know they sell the two Ultimate Japanese books together.
Japanese Particle Workbook uses romaji as well, so you could use that, but I suggest you wait for Ultimate Japanese because it has some in-depth explanations on the most important function words and formulas, which you will need to understand everything written in Japanese Particle Workbook.

Derfel said:

That would be cool actually.

Well, the only thing thats free is the cheese in the mousetrap. : D

And I'd like to add another thing.
Most people say you can't learn Japanese from anime... thats not entirely true.
Indeed, you can't learn it from scratch just by watching anime, but once you understand some of the stuff (erggh, plenty of it, like 70% it'll be a great help, because you'll learn words and formulas that are used often in anime, in general, so you'll have to struggle to forget it)

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...says the guy who did not distinguish between 息女 and 娘 in another thread....



Derfel has a lot of energy and a lot of good advice to give, but he is underestimating how little anime will help when engaging in real conversations in Japan.

Do not make vocab lists from anime unless your point of learning the language is to understand anime (which is a fine goal if that is your goal).

Do not make vocab lists from a Japanese-English dictionary by looking up things you want to be able to say.

Learn vocab in context from textbooks or real sources (reading, news, etc., but not anime). Picture books for children are great, as are graded readers (yes there is a Japanese graded reader series, I believe 8 sets of 5 books each, but maybe hard to find outside of Japan. Worth searching for though...)

Charles Barkley said:

...says the guy who did not distinguish between 息女 and 娘 in another thread....

Derfel has a lot of energy and a lot of good advice to give, but he is underestimating how little anime will help when engaging in real conversations in Japan.

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Yes, exactly. If you're at all interested in the culture, learn polite forms then break it down into a friendly, casual style. After you're fully acclimated. Mix up the process and you'll have a very hard time to know when and how to switch between them. When and how to distinguish between being polite and rude.

Most manga will use casual speech, but there is still a LOT of switching between the two modes that can completely short circuit the normal learning process. A Sakura video I was watching this weekend, for example, had one character use nothing but the "desu wa" pattern to end her sentences. And every other sentence was inverted. It's totally character driver exaggeration that will get you laughed off the street in real life. Seriously, NOBODY I know talks that way either any or most of the time.

So Derfel needs to either start listening to the news or plan a trip to Japan real fast.

I understand your point, but you're mixing up a few things here. Not being able to use something whenever you feel like doesn't mean you shouldn't learn it.
And I have to disagree that learning a language can only start from a and end at z. Its not linear, and you may learn whatever you please if you have the knowledge to actually learn it.

...says the guy who did not distinguish between 息女 and 娘 in another thread....

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Well excuse me, but its not like I could have distinguished between them anyway, so its not anime's fault that I cannot.

Really? You people only use banknotes? The real thing? You don't accept change no matter how much it is? This is a similar situation. Any knowledge is knowledge, especially when you don't have to opportunity to go to Japan long term.
I don't see learning as something that cannot be reversed, or more correctly "mended".

If a person learns something, he might as well learn how and when to use it years later when the need arises.

Aaaand, may I ask whats wrong with anime vocabulary? Do they like use their own words invented by the mangakas? I mean really, those are the same words.
If you're reading sci-fi novels, you'll encounter the words common in sci-fi anime, and same for fantasy, horror, sengoku, bakumatsu and all the rest.

You know, words like surrender, retreat, hilt, pommel, commander are all words like the rest. Or what? Anything not related to real life is lowly crap?

Lets put it like this: Unless you talk to Japanese people in Japanese for long periods of time daily, you're going to forget or learn the polite stuff very hard, and I don't feel like doing that.

When I was smaller I played loads and loads of games, and I learnt the words destruction, rape, murder, organized crime, alien, bayonette, blade, edge, etc. way before learning How do you do, and I seem to be doing ok, in fact I passed my IELTS examination quite well.

If you are going to learn the language, you can begin wherever you wish, if you're the busy businessman type who's main interest in Japan is ﾂ?? than cool, do nothing but follow the path laid down by millions.

I for one don't give a damn about mastering the subtle art of using (abusing?) polite forms ,it can wait, it will have to wait a bit.

Jesus, I began learning around September, so I have all the time on Earth, when I'll travel to Japan, I'll learn those polite forms and that's how its cool, because I have years before I can even acquire a proper visa, not having a degree yet, so why the rush?

I'm glad that you try to help me, but please, do not think that I entirely forgot about the polite form, simply, my order is not the order of Bob, Melvin or Mary, my order is my order, and trust me, it includes everything.

Anime is a great help if you know that you're learning casual forms, and pretty much a trap if you don't, its a matter of correct utilization.
Knowledge is useful, and casual language is knowledge too.

Now now, no flaming, you all. There are more polite ways of saying things.

Derfel said:

Lets put it like this: Unless you talk to Japanese people in Japanese for long periods of time daily, you're going to forget or learn the polite stuff very hard, and I don't feel like doing that.

I for one don't give a damn about mastering the subtle art of using (abusing?) polite forms ,it can wait, it will have to wait a bit.

I'll learn those polite forms and thats how its cool, because I have years before I can even acquire a proper visa, not having a degree yet, so why the rush?

do not think that I entirely forgot about the polite form, simply, my order is not the order of Bob, Melvin or Mary, my order is my order, and trust me, it includes everything.
Anime is a great help if you know that you're learning casual forms, and pretty much a trap if you don't, its a matter of correct utilization.
Knowledge is useful, and casual language is knowledge too.

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Although Elizabeth mentioned polite forms, you may have noticed that I did not. Her point about the lack of consistency in manga is a fair one, but I would like to make a different point here. (In fact, I would recommend all people beginning to study Japanese to start with plain forms, not the desu form)

The difference between anime and the normal Japanese I have been talking about is not the difference between polite and casual Japanese. If it were, anime would be a brilliant source for Japanese study (and in fact there are some anime that are better than others, such as realisitic ones set in the present).

The difference is that people do not speak, in real life, like they do in anime. Casual conversations in real life do not use the same grammatical forms, the same words, or the same way of expressing one's thoughts as they do in anime. They are just as casual as anime, but they are not anime.

As I said before, if you want to improve your ability to read manga or understand anime, then reading manga or watching anime is second to none. If you want to load up on destruction words, be my guest, I am not trying to tell you what words you will find useful, or what words you will put yourself in a position to come into contact with repeatedly. And for people who like you want to learn that kind of japanese, your advice will be much more useful than any I could offer.

What I am saying is learning through anime is not a gospel to be spread to those who simply want to learn the Japanese necessary for everyday life in Japan. This needs to be specified and driven home whenever one is giving advice in a general thread like this, which is why I jumped in.

For people new to the site, it can be difficult to pick out the orochi's and Elizabeth's--people who have attained a very high level of natural Japanese--from the rest of us. I think it is important that their advice floats to the top. Ignoring it is a private mistake that you are of course entitled to, but downplaying their proven advice to would be students in favor of your own unproven advice is poor form.

Some other advice:

-Buy two beginner textbooks. Maybe Genki 1 and the one Derfel recommended. They will reinfornce one another, and you will review naturally and in new situations when doing the same stuff in the other book. This is far better than re-reading one textbook.

-Don't overreview. If something isn't sticking, move on. Very important to keep moving forward in your language study--keeps it challenging, keeps it fresh, and review will naturally happen anyway.

-keep a notebook in your pocket for new words. Review when you have a few minutes. Especially useful if you are already in Japan, but even if outside, you can review your textbook words.

-Move to Japan. Or surround yourself with Japanese people/tutors/university classes wherever you do live. Although a couple posters on this site appear to have surprisingly good Japanese for not having been to the country (one poster whose name escapes me seems quite knowledgeable, though he has had a tutor for several years), it is very difficult to get beyond a low intermediate level of Japanese when you arent in the country. A bitter pill if you can't move here, but that's language learning.

I highly recommend the Genki books. They have their flaws, but I have seen no other book that can possibly match up to the Genki set. I'm very impressed. After that the Intermediate Japanese book by Japan Times is a good follow up.

If you get these three books down you are going to have an extremely strong base of the language. Make sure to expose yourself to as much as possible on the side. Setting up penpals and getting a mixi account doesn't hurt either (the Japanese myspace).

Yes, Mary is a ho, but hey Takeshi knew it was just a fling anyway and I bet that is what he was aiming knowing his personality.

I'm curious, of those who hate the Genki series... what is their actual reason? The only issues I have are the last few chapters and the kanji not quite matching up with the material taught in the front of the book.

Charles Barkley said:

Although Elizabeth mentioned polite forms, you may have noticed that I did not. Her point about the lack of consistency in manga is a fair one, but I would like to make a different point here. (In fact, I would recommend all people beginning to study Japanese to start with plain forms, not the desu form)
The difference between anime and the normal Japanese I have been talking about is not the difference between polite and casual Japanese. If it were, anime would be a brilliant source for Japanese study (and in fact there are some anime that are better than others, such as realisitic ones set in the present).
The difference is that people do not speak, in real life, like they do in anime. Casual conversations in real life do not use the same grammatical forms, the same words, or the same way of expressing one's thoughts as they do in anime. They are just as casual as anime, but they are not anime.
As I said before, if you want to improve your ability to read manga or understand anime, then reading manga or watching anime is second to none. If you want to load up on destruction words, be my guest, I am not trying to tell you what words you will find useful, or what words you will put yourself in a position to come into contact with repeatedly. And for people who like you want to learn that kind of japanese, your advice will be much more useful than any I could offer.
What I am saying is learning through anime is not a gospel to be spread to those who simply want to learn the Japanese necessary for everyday life in Japan. This needs to be specified and driven home whenever one is giving advice in a general thread like this, which is why I jumped in.
For people new to the site, it can be difficult to pick out the orochi's and Elizabeth's--people who have attained a very high level of natural Japanese--from the rest of us. I think it is important that their advice floats to the top. Ignoring it is a private mistake that you are of course entitled to, but downplaying their proven advice to would be students in favor of your own unproven advice is poor form.

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Yeah, yeah of course, I get that, what im saying is that if you do indeed how to speak, how to use the structures, to understand and say them, you will pick up the accepted way of use in no time, so there's no real "dead end" in learning, its not like many of the RPG games where you get one ending of the many, I don't believe in excluse kvlt language which is granted only to the
tr00 who follow the Path of Language.

And one more thing about anime: Its mainstream, it can be found anywhere and everywhere. If you type in say "xy crappy shounen anime" you'll probably find torrents or direct links to even crappier rmvb episodes, but nonetheless, you will be able to hear Japanese language, even if its beyond weird sometimes.

Reason for hating Genki? No I don't have one as I don't hate it. Why I didn't choose Genki than? I dislike books with illustrations, they always distract me. And generally, the impression Ultimate Japanese made on me was better.

Regarding Genki--I wasn't all that impressed when I went over it, myself. I thought Nakama was actually pretty decent. My friend, who got his MA in Japanese and is going for his PhD, absolutely despises Genki from a number of technical standpoints that are totally lost on me, because I am not a linguist, nor a Japanese major.

Second, as for learning Japanese from anime--I don't think it matters much unless that's all you expose yourself to, but it is better than nothing. You cannot learn how to hear a language unless it is flowing into your ears often enough. If anime is the only way you can expose your ears to Japanese, then, by golly, do it, just don't expect to speak like that in public and not get wierd looks.

Case in point--I can read French darn-near fluently, but talk at me, and I am lost. Why? My auditory exposure to French has been minimal. Focus on learning Japanese from a book, and you'll be in the same boat. You have to hear it, and occasionally speak it, to be able to get better.

Hence, if all you have is anime, well, watch it. It is better than nothing. Just listen to it with a grain of salt, and try to get your hands on live-action TV, newscasts, and maybe documentaries. You've got to get your brain used to hearing it.

I dont much about the Genki series....Nakama is pretty good though ^^； Another good one is the Yookoso series...kinda pricey but it does come with a lot of material. Its the text book my college uses and I kinda like it.

I guess everything has been said about learning Japanese from anime etc...so I won't repeat them here. I have by no means a high proficiency in Japanese but I try to listen to a lot of tapes and often listen to the SBS radio when it transmits the Japanese news. I often try to pick out words even if a majority of it is lost on me lol. I go to the nihongo only forums here a few times to try my reading out but its....fractured lol. Some words I can pick out, some forms I'm not quite familiar with yet...but I do hope it will improve over time.

I had a Japanese listening test recently that required listening and interpreting a Japanese News telecast >< It was tough!

So yeah I have a ways to go but yeah expose yourself to all forms of Japanese, search out youtube for some zany Japanese variety shows or even news forecasts if they're on there.

Kirakira1232 said:

Another good one is the Yookoso series...kinda pricey but it does come with a lot of material.

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That was it! That was the one my friend used for his MA at UMass in Japanese. His reviews of those books were positively glowing. But, like I said, he positively despised Genki.

GodEmperorLeto said:

I don't think it matters much unless that's all you expose yourself to, but it is better than nothing. You cannot learn how to hear a language unless it is flowing into your ears often enough. If anime is the only way you can expose your ears to Japanese, then, by golly, do it...

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Though your logic here is good, and makes studying from anime seem like common sense, the premise that "if anime is the only way you can expose your ears to Japanese" is highly flawed. The amount of media in Japanese available to someone with a private internet connection, which I assume most people on this site (although sadly, not myself) possess, could keep one busy for many lifetimes. Simply peruse this site, or create a new post asking for electronic media, and you will be overwhelmed by links.

Anime certainly is better than nothing. I watched a lot of it myself to gain some exposure to spoken Japanese before coming over to Japan. You can easily learn the basic sounds of the language and get a bit of a feel for the ryhthm. Also, even among unrealistic anime, certain anime (naruto is not too bad, but don't pick up ってばよ) is much more natural than other anime (never study from One Piece or Inuyasha).

When I seriously began reading Japanese, which was about a year after beginning my study and 4 months after moving hear, my first few months were almost exclusively devoted to anime. And it did help me move to the next level. However, knowing what I know now, I would have instead used, grouped by levels:

Level 1:
graded readers
childrens picture books
'literature textbooks' like the ones mentioned above
reading different textbooks (not sticking to only one)
manga for young children, like doraemon

Level 2
asahi shougakusei shinbun (elementary school kids newspaper),
higher level graded readers, literature textbooks, other textbooks
children's novels: Japanese version of 'The Giver,' etc.
Realistic manga like Hana Yori Dango

Level 3
magazines
news articles on the internet/paper
fiction
...

I would say most manga is probably too advanced for beginners, as it is often harder for me to read than adult fiction. It is also very hard at a lower level to distinguish between useful vocab and non-useful vocab, both of which are thrown at you in abundance. I would bring my vocab lists to my tutor, and it became very discouraging after a while of doing this, as the majority of the anime words that I showed her were, for different reasons, strange, out of modern use, etc. I do not discourage using anime because I have had different goals in studying Japanese--I discourage using it as a learning tool because of personal experience and because there are better tools out there. It is best left as something fun you do with Japanese outside of your study time.

Wow, someone who despises Genki. I couldn't help but think it was one of the best books I have used actually. I'm very curious as to the reasons why.