Japanese English (Don't use it!)

Mark of Zorro · 19 Apr 2015

Lest anyone get the wrong idea I am also against American, or other, Japanese, and yes it exists. For example, calling a simplified fold up couch/bed a "futon". If you find that silly, then you know how we native English speakers feel when we hear "camping car" and " his my car". Please, get it right! This thread is meant to be a list of Japanese English that is wrong, complete with what is correct.

That said, on this forum, people claiming to be native speakers used the following Japanese English, or Engrish:

camping car-- should be camper, RV or recreational vehicle

reform (with regards to a house)-- should be refurbish or remodel. Reform is what you do to bad teenagers.

Other examples:

his my car--NO. Its his car, her car, your car, their car, our car, its car or my car. Otherwise its his own car, my own car, your own car etc. There is no "his my car" or "my my car".

front glass--in a car its either a windshield or a windscreen. In a train its a front window. The opposite is the back window or rear window for both a car or train.

sunglass--no such thing. People wear sunglasses.

Other examples welcome. But please, when you are corrected, edit your post for the sake of those studying. How could you make a mistake? Well, for example, sometimes we Americans think some British English used in Japanese loan words are wrong, when in fact they are totally correct. For example, bonnet for hood (of a car).

lanthas · 19 Apr 2015

For completeness, these kinds of words are called 和製英語 ("Japanese-made English") in Japanese and pseudo-anglicisms in English. The phenomenon is definitely not unique to Japan:

Many speakers of a language which employs pseudo-anglicisms believe that the relevant words are genuine anglicisms and can be used in English, which may cause misunderstandings.

The linked Wikipedia article has plenty of examples in all kinds of languages, including many European ones.

To contribute, the most hilarious example I've read about so far is:
link free (リンクフリー). Used on websites to indicate that viewers may link to them without restriction (as in, "feel free to link to us"). As a consequence of this word, some Japanese tourists interpret signs saying "Smoke free" in English as "Feel free to smoke here", while of course the exact opposite is meant. (source)

Nemuyoake · 20 Apr 2015

That's funny, in French we say "camping car" too. I thought it was correct. Until today.

bleighk · 2 May 2015

That said, on this forum, people claiming to be native speakers used the following American English, or Incorrect English:

RV or recreational vehicle -- could also be camper, or camping car. Anything is acceptable, really.

refurbish or remodel (with regards to a house) -- could also be renovate or renos. Remodel sounds pompous to me, but would be acceptable.

Other examples:

"Its his car, her car, your car, their car, our car, its car or my car" -- NO. It's his car.

---

Fixed it up for you there, bud. Gotta practice what you preach.

Kind of embarrassing, really.

Mark of Zorro · 3 May 2015

I regularly omit apostrophes because they are a needless pain in the butt, especially when typing from a cell phone.

No. Not embarrassed at all. I would however be embarrassed to be a nit-picking grammar nazi. I never call anybody on such minor and trivial points of grammar. I hardly even point out spelling mistakes. If I had my way, everything would be phonetic, cause I am seriously not interested in such little ivory tower foibles.

However, manufactured vocabulary is irksome and it causes confusion. That is what I preach and that is what I practice.

Mark of Zorro · 3 May 2015

bleighk said:
could also be camper, or camping car. Anything is acceptable, really.

I said camper. And no, camping car is not acceptable. I checked.

WonkoTheSane · 3 May 2015

I have never been irked or confused by any of the things you listed.

johnnyG · 4 May 2015

Mark of Zorro said:
...
However, manufactured vocabulary is irksome and it causes confusion. That is what I preach and that is what I practice.

Could you point out some vocabulary in any language that was not, at one point, 'manufactured' (in the way that you seem to think camping car and so on was in Japanese)?

There are about 900 new additions to the Oxford English Dictionary, announced this week, including first-timers like 'bathroom break,' 'beatboxer,' 'DIYer,' 'scissor-kick' and— wait for it —'scimitar-horned oryx'

Four times a year, the Oxford English Dictionary lets down its drawbridge and invites a select few new words into the kingdom. On Thursday, roughly 900 new terms made their first appearance in the reference.

So 900 x 4 = 3600 new words per year. And that's just the English word factory.

lanthas · 4 May 2015

What you're referring to are new English words that were created in English-speaking countries, while this thread is about "English" words created in non-English-speaking countries (specifically Japan). With words like "camping car", the meaning is at least clear even though (presumably) no native English speaker has ever used it. However, that's not so much the case for sentences like "I finally got a my car" - that's just incorrect whichever way you look at it, and the intended meaning (a private car) is lost completely.

The point of this thread is to warn Japanese students of English to be wary of 和製英語 such as マイカー, リフォーム, スキルアップ etc. since these words are usually not transferable. (Of course, the same can be said about 海外 students of Japanese using word-by-word translations of English expressions)

WonkoTheSane · 4 May 2015

lanthas said:
What you're referring to are new English words that were created in English-speaking countries, while this thread is about "English" words created in non-English-speaking countries (specifically Japan). With words like "camping car", the meaning is at least clear even though (presumably) no native English speaker has ever used it. However, that's not so much the case for sentences like "I finally got a my car" - that's just incorrect whichever way you look at it, and the intended meaning (a private car) is lost completely.

The point of this thread is to warn Japanese students of English to be wary of 和製英語 such as マイカー, リフォーム, スキルアップ etc. since these words are usually not transferable. (Of course, the same can be said about 海外 students of Japanese using word-by-word translations of English expressions)

Then why are 'camping-car' and 'reform' listed as examples? They seem to be words on their way through the process of new word creation, and were listed by the OP as having been used by a native speaker of English (or one claiming to be). Much like 'cause' being used in place of 'because' is finding its way to more widespread usage by those claiming to be native speakers of English.

lanthas · 4 May 2015

"Camping car" comes from the Japanese word キャンピングカー. The dictionary lists things such as "mobile home; camper-van; RV" as translations, but not "camping car", even though this would be the most straightforward translation if this were a valid word. Similarly, "reform" comes from リフォーム which the dictionary translates to "renovation; redecoration; makeover; updating" but not "reforming".

These are pseudo-anglicisms made by and used by Japanese only. They will, most likely, never become part of native English speech, let alone English dictionaries. Just like all the other words in Japanese and all the other languages that are listed in the Wikipedia article.

WonkoTheSane · 4 May 2015

lanthas said:
These are pseudo-anglicisms made by and used by Japanese only.

If this were true then neither the native English speaker who was referenced by the OP as having used them, nor the native French speaker who stated he had used camping car would have used the words.

I have heard, not on only a few occasions, Americans use 'reform' to reference renovation of a house.

Mike Cash · 4 May 2015

How many of us blithely...even unconsciously use Japanese terms in our English speech? I don't mean things like "anime" or "manga", which are widely understood even among those who have no connection to Japan. I'm talking about things like "keitai".

The whole "camping car" thing came about because at one point....well before there were very many campers (and they're still relatively rare)....the term "RV" had already been adopted and applied to what in other counties was called an SUV. So when things that were known as "RV" outside Japan gained a foothold here, a different term was needed.

Why not just call it a "camper"? Because of the strong association in Japanese minds of anything ending in "-er" meaning a person. In English "camper" can be a vehicle or person, so in this case at least it could be argued Japan has perhaps improved upon things by eliminating ambiguity.

I used to find some of this stuff annoying as well, I must confess, especially the "my xxxx". Then I stopped hanging around people who speak English and it was remarkable how the issue vanished completely. Not an issue at all. I get a little exasperated at English words borrowed into Japanese and then used in a way that I can't figure out (テンション, セレブ), but キャンピングカー almost never comes up in conversation and the whole "my xxx" thing was in vogue over twenty years ago....do people even use that anymore? I can't recall the last time I heard it.

Mark of Zorro · 4 May 2015

WonkoTheSane said:
I have never been irked or confused by any of the things you listed.

Well good for YOU buddy!

Would you like the world to cobble together a list of misused and invented words that only confuse YOU?

Tell you what everyone, in the OP it says clearly this thread is meant to be a list. So add to the list or stand down please.

letianchen · 4 May 2015

lol is this exclusively for japanese people though? I'm pretty sure my parents would say camping car interchangeably with the actual word and anyone would still know the actual word probably. Even I make stupid mistakes in english where i say things like " close the lights" ( to which I would actually mean turn off the lights) which im pretty sure isnt a legitimate sentence, who knows though.

WonkoTheSane · 4 May 2015

Mark of Zorro said:
Well good for YOU buddy!

Would you like the world to cobble together a list of misused and invented words that only confuse YOU?

Tell you what everyone, in the OP it says clearly this thread is meant to be a list. So add to the list or stand down please.

You classified these words as irksome and confusing. I'm just raising the point that, since some others are neither irked nor confused, perhaps the problem is that you're more easily confused and/or readily irked when confronted with a person using the word 'reform' in place of 'renovate.'

Mark of Zorro · 4 May 2015

WonkoTheSane said:
I'm just raising the point that, since some others are neither irked nor confused, perhaps the problem is that you're more easily confused and/or readily irked when confronted with a person using the word 'reform' in place of 'renovate.'

And people accuse me of being a troll.

Look, this is not a dictionary (yet). I have not gotten to any words that are confusing yet (with the exception of misuse of "futon". Yes, I am more easily irked. I know this and admit it freely. I also admit I pay attention to detail more than some people. I chalk that up to actually giving a (explicative) what people say.

Now, would you mind posting examples? Otherwise, feel free to unplug from my thread.

WonkoTheSane · 4 May 2015

Mark of Zorro said:
And people accuse me of being a troll.

Unsurprising.

Look, this is not a dictionary (yet). I have not gotten to any words that are confusing yet...

You specifically said the reason the words shouldn't be used is because they are irksome and confusing. So if the words you listed are not, there appears to be no reason not to use them. After all, that is what you preach and that is what you practice, right?

Now, would you mind posting examples? Otherwise, feel free to unplug from my thread.

'Cause' used in place of 'because.'

'Cause' has a perfectly valid meaning already. In this very thread a person claiming to be a native speaker of English used it in much the same way a petulant 4 year old says "'cause I said so!"

johnnyG · 4 May 2015

Mark of Zorro said:
...
... in the OP I say clearly this thread is meant to be a list. So add to the list or stand down please.

A third option is that you do away with your list (give up on it, and consider it a failed idea), and a fourth might be to just remove specific items from it--ones that posters have said are not a problem.

Mark of Zorro · 5 May 2015

Do I have to say pretty please? Or are we just enjoying being defiant now? How about please grow up?

Or find a new hobby other than picking nits.

WonkoTheSane · 5 May 2015

Mark of Zorro said:
Do I have to say pretty please? Or are we just enjoying being defiant now? How about please grow up?

Or find a new hobby other than picking nits.

I disagree with the premise of the thread, and that is a valid reason to respond to the thread.

Telling people who are happy and communicative with the words they use not to use certain words solely because you don't like them is controlling and arrogant.

I tried to say it more diplomatically, but you don't seem to get it... You're the one who needs to grow up and respect other people.

Mark of Zorro · 5 May 2015

Moving on....

cunning -- This refers to a person's cleverness in escaping or solving problems. It does not mean "cheating". Cunning is a good thing.

tension -- This means stress, and has nothing to do with high or happy spirits.

soft cream -- We never heard of it. There are various types of cream, and not all of them are cold. You want to say "ice cream".

juice -- This is the natural liquid or nectar of a fruit, or a basic drink made from it. It is not carbonated. Soda is not juice. Orange juice is juice. On a menu they are all called "soft drinks".

sign -- You ask a person for their signature, or you ask them to sign something. If you ask them for their sign they won't know what you are talking about. They will think of a sign, such as a stop sign or a store sign.

sand -- this is the powdery and grainy "dirt" in the desert. What you eat is called a "sandwich".

thomas · 5 May 2015

This is actually very interesting for non-native English speakers as well! What about these (correct me if I'm wrong):

restructure -- for laying someone off

claim -- for complain or complaint

take out -- for take-away restaurants (not as in "drones take out terrorists" or "I'm taking my wife out to somewhere")

fried potatoes or potatoe fry -- for French fries or 'pommes frites' (what's are fried potatoes called? Yaki-jagaimo?)

undrentide · 5 May 2015

Yes, it is very interesting subject.

I can see where the wrong intepretation of "restructure" and "claim" comes from - people mixed up the cause and the result in case of "restructure", and "claim" is cultural misinterpretation. Anyway, I do agree they are very common examples.

I believe that takeout is American English for takeaway.
I do not think fried potato is incorrect even though it is usualy called French Fries (American English) and Chips (British English)...?
In Japanese it's called ageta (jaga)imo or imo no agetano (both literally means "fried potato"). "yaki" means something baked or grilled.

The word I often see misunderstood is moody.
It looks that the word mood is misunderstood for (good, nice) atmosphere of a place.

thomas · 5 May 2015

undrentide said:
In Japanese it's called ageta (jaga)imo or imo no agetano (both literally means "fried potato"). "yaki" means something baked or grilled.

Thanks @undrentide -san, I frequently confuse baking and frying, technically I mean. :x3:

Talking about moody:

atmosphere -- to describe a person's attitude, character, mentality or "aura"

Japanese English (Don't use it!)

先輩

後輩

Registered

先輩

先輩

先輩

Sempai

先輩

先輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

先輩

先輩

先輩

先輩

先輩

Sempai

先輩

先輩

先輩

Unswerving cyclist

Japa'n vagyok

Unswerving cyclist

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