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Japan plans foreign fingerprinting

pipokun said:
It was by the UN resolution that Japan introduces anti-terrorist measures.
Ask Debito to sue the UN.
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Fingerprinting foreigners in Japan is not an anti-terrorist measure, it's a political one. Especially since the only terrorist attacks to have occurred in Japan were committed by Japanese.

pipokun said:
I heard the US will modernise the VWP.
According to a Japanese media, we'll have to register our personal information though the internet before we go there.
Ask Debito to sue the US.
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I think the American system is also terrible. Why does that excuse Japan's new system? And why do you want to copy it if it's so bad?

pipokun said:
And most importantly, we cannot arrest Kim Jong-il or Osama bin Laden for conspiracy here, for the Japanese penal law is not based on the British/US ones.
Ask Debito to sue Japan.
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Another reason Japan shouldn't get a seat on the UNSC... it doesn't have extradition treaties with its allies.

pipokun said:
About the inefficient Heathrow and the horribly expensive tube...
I sincerely ask you to sue your govenment.
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I'm glad your complaint against the UK was limited to transport infrastructure. Evidently you couldn't find any issues related to this discussion. That's probably because even though the UK is a major target for terrorists, immigration officials still treat non-UK nationals with respect (unlike the USA and from Nov, Japan.) And they certainly don't fingerprint them, because fingerprinting is discrimitory, insulting and completely useless against hardened terrorists.

( PS tip to get 75% off Tube tickets... buy an Oyster Card, the London equivalent of a Suica Card )
 

I understand what you're saying. But this fingerprinting/Interpol situation has existed for decades. Why didn't anybody suggest fingerprinting all foreigners at all airports a long time ago? Ans - Because it's insulting and discriminatory.

And any criminal who's stupid enough to come to Japan in order to keep his head down would be too stupid to evade capture anywhere
 
this type of mass fingerprinting stuff is never about your average street criminal.
it's usually about politics.
politics for some "get-tuff" on crime stuff and scapegoating immigrants. easy, powerless targets for politicians who need to make it look like they are doing something.

plus it is also goof for keeping tabs on political dissidents like the infamous Operation Condor the US helped run among fascist dictatorship of South America a couple decades ago. That is, after all, what they mean when the say "security" - spying on dissidents. It's called Newspeak, or Doublespeak.

isn't the US and Brazil doing this too?
It would be ridiculous for someone from a country doing it to complain that another country is.
 
Taiko666 said:
Fingerprinting foreigners in Japan is not an anti-terrorist measure, it's a political one. Especially since the only terrorist attacks to have occurred in Japan were committed by Japanese.
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I don't think I can introduce the anti-terrorist measure by myself, so everything the government does is political.
I don't know coming to Tokyo Disney Land with a fake visa like the dearest son of Kim Jong-il is a terror or not, but so far no anti-spy or anti-terrorist law here, so the fingerprint stuff is a small international cooperation which Japan can do.
It would be more efficient if Japan took fingerprints only from North Koreans, but it would make another problem.

I think the American system is also terrible. Why does that excuse Japan's new system? And why do you want to copy it if it's so bad?
Another reason Japan shouldn't get a seat on the UNSC... it doesn't have extradition treaties with its allies.
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Don't worry. I know your government will introduce the new ID system and "stop and question, even search" like the J cop. (I read the security roadmap of your country somewhere maybe in Guardian, but sorry I lost the link. Just wait and see what will happen in your country within couples of years.)
I will not be surprised if EU nations would introduce super modernised measures after the US and EU mutually agree on them.
Are you going to stand up for non-EU people when your govenment introduce the similar system?

even though the UK is a major target for terrorists, immigration officials still treat non-UK nationals with respect
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If so, I don't know why they don't introduce more staffs in the non-EU lanes or changing the lane from EU passport holders to the non-EU ones soon after they finish the former ones like in Narita. I think it is a bit unfair to compare the Heathlow and Narita, but the more passenger, the more airport tax, right?

Really sorry if the kaizen has alreadly been done and thank you for the Oyster Card.
 
FrustratedDave said:
Did I get this right, permanent residents don't have to provide fringerprints?
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All Permanent Residents will have to give their paw prints, except for "Special Permanent Residents" which basically means the Zainichi (long term resident Koreans.) It was mainly due to the forceful campaigning of this group that fingerprinting on alien registration cards was dropped. Special dispensation has now been given to this group to avoid similar protests. Another example of the ridiculous and offensive selective nature of this law.
 
Here's an excellent article from the Japan Times (1 year old though)

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20060822zg.html

... which contains this amazing quote from Senior Vice Justice Minister Taro Kono

"Unless somebody can demonstrate to me that Japanese are not treated the same way overseas we will go forward with fingerprinting."
 
In the meantime, the American Chamber Commerce in Japan has now formed an Immigration Task Force to tackle the issue.[/QUOTE
What an irony...
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I just registered. I am an American who has visited Japan twice in the past; business in Tokyo then tourist visits to Kyoto on the Shinkasen. Japan is a beautiful country, and I love visiting.
But I hate the people ruling my government now. Bush and Cheney are war criminals. And I hate that I have lost freedoms to these criminals (for example my telephone and emails are now tapped by the US NSA).
I think it is an invasion of privacy for the US is to fingerprint and eye scan visitors to my country. I feel very sorry for visitors to the US who have to submit to fingerprinting and eye scanning; and I believe that foreigners should stop coming to the US until this ridiculous law is changed. Before we were ruled by the criminals Bush and Cheney, only law-breakers in the US were fingerprinted. I do NOT want those war criminals to add my fingerprints to their big database - I do NOT trust them.
But now I just found out that Japan is going to start the same stupid law!!! I have a business trip to Tokyo in October and would like to know when Japan will start the fingerprinting? Will it start on Nov. 1, or has it already started? If it has already started, then I will try to avoid coming to Japan until they get rid of this stupid law.
 
Hi Jgui, welcome to JREF.

Fingerprinting and mug-shooting at Japanese immigration starts on Nov 27th, so this time you'll be spared the indignity.

Yes, we certainly have Bush and his mob to thank for a lot of the world's current woes. I do feel a black cloud descended on the world when that imbecile took over from Clinton- a complete contrast to the general feeling of hope and reconciliation that was prevalent during the brief happy time between the end of the Cold War and the 'Axis of Evil' hate-speech from Bush.

You make a good point about the danger of having one's prints in a national database- the scope for abuse is very wide. It's even worse in Japan- the police and judiciary are orders of magnitude more incompetent than their US counterparts, so I expect to see many miscarriages of justice arising from misuse of this database.
 
The world is slowly moving towards fascism and the people are too apathetic to do anything about it.
 
Jgui said:
only law-breakers in the US were fingerprinted
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And this is my opinion too - until now only the law-breakers have been fingerprinted. Asking me to give my fingerprint means there is a presumption that I have done something illegal - its treating me as a criminal.
 
AFAIK, the US has always fingerprinted its permanent residents (when they apply for immigrant visas).
 
epigene said:
AFAIK, the US has always fingerprinted its permanent residents (when they apply for immigrant visas).
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... but Japan will fingerprint its permanent residents every time they enter the country. For business travellers that could be dozens of times a year. Japan copies the US blindly and then goes the extra mile to inconvenience and humiliate its foreign residents.
 

This is about the visa requirement, but I've never heard the US said no fingerprint at their airport for short business trips of non-immigrant visa holders.
It is good to see American people here opposing the policy, but I highly doubt the next president would abolish it. Just wait and see.

It is not about the fingerprint, but producing a biometric passport is a bit difficult.
I watched a program that a Japanese company is producing the one for green passport holders living in a country somewhere in the world. They did not say which country, but maybe for Australians?
 
So we've got three countries doing this now? US, Brazil, and Japan?
(might Brazil only do it to non-citizens from countries who themselves do it to non-citizens?)

On a related privacy note: peaceful, bother-nobody New Zealand has?/had a role in the international spy network via something called ECHELON (and their prime minister didn't even know about it.)

Any other countries that might be doing it?
North Korea maybe?
 
I think this is going to be in effect as early as next week, if it hasn't already. Here's a video by the Japanese government describing what it is about:
http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/prg/prg1203.html

I personally have no problem with finger printing, as I'd gone through number of times in the course of US immigration and naturalization processes. I have nothing to hide and it is a different world now. I do have problem with photographing, though. That means putting make up on before landing and stuff. I don't think they'll allow re-shoots. Something dudes may not understand.

My main concern is the immigration lines getting longer. Certain professions, like chefs, may have difficulty having their prints read. If you get stuck, everyone in your line gets stuck.

But really, couldn't they find someone who can really act for the video? I felt like choking that guy after watching the video.
 
Good. I believe all countries should use this. Keeps foreign criminals out.
Also, I am British. Say I go to America, commit a crime and jump through to Mexico. They can send my data over and I will get caught at the border.

It is a great way. However, I also disagree with the photographing, but that is because I hate cameras!
 
I totally agree. I find that keeping check on criminals is perfectly justified, but trating us all as if we are potential criminals is unfair.

To say that this kind policy of fingerprints of foreigners is fine as long as you have nothing to hide is naive.

In my country a extreme right party wants a DNA with everyone in it. They say that normal citizens should have nothing to fear. I object to beeing treated with suspision even though the idea is to treat "everyone as equally suspect". My point is that it is undignifying. If we are all loosing our freedom and privacy, it will be as if we are all jailed, even though there are no physical wall around us.
 
NekoMama7 said:
I personally have no problem with finger printing, as I'd gone through number of times in the course of US immigration and naturalization processes.
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So, it seems like you've believed the hype and have been conditioned into believing that it's ok for people to treat you as a criminal suspect.

NekoMama7 said:
I have nothing to hide
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... so how much of your liberty / personal dignity are you willing to sacrifice to prove it? For the matter, why should you have to prove it?

NekoMama7 said:
and it is a different world now
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Terrorism has been around for a long, long time. Consider that in the height of the (partly US-funded) IRA terror campaign, Irish citizens didn't even require a passport to enter the UK, let alone be fingerprinted. Now that the USA has tragically been very much on the receiving end of terrorism, it's infecting the world with a sort of Big Brother mentality... but I really don't think that it will help fight terrorism... nor do I think that's the (whole) intention. It's certainly not the intention in Japan.

There's a great article at about the new law at www.stippy.com

 
are there any Japanese who do not like foreign fingerprinting in foreign country ?.
i dont care at all...
I think most Japanese does not care about that at all even though other coutry demands to enter .
I cooperate with preasure if useful for the safety or something of the country.
 
NekoMama7 said:
http://nettv.gov-online.go.jp/prg/prg1203.html

But really, couldn't they find someone who can really act for the video? I felt like choking that guy after watching the video.
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That video is hilarious.

The message in the video is that we should all be happy about these measures because it is a counter-terrorism measure. First of all, none of the mentioned terrorism attacks (9/11 and onwards) could have been prvented through this kind of measure. Secondly, if anything goes in the name of counter-terrorism, then we should also accept to be DNA registered, or maybe even having computer id chips inserted into our body.

This is the full text of the relevant document:
Outline of New Immigration Procedures: Requirements for the Provision of Personal
Information
August 2007
Immigration Bureau, Ministry of Justice
1. General Outline
On 24th May 2006, a new law amending parts of the Immigration Control and
Refugee Recognition Act was promulgated and is due to enter into force by November 23,
2007.
The revised law contains new provisions for the establishment of a framework for
preventative measures against acts of terrorism. As part of this framework, a new
anti-terrorism measure is to be implemented, which requires the submission of personal
identification information at immigration control.
Under the new immigration procedures, when foreign nationals are applying for
landing, fingerprints and a facial photograph will be taken after which an immigration
control officer shall conduct an examination for landing.
In the event of any foreign national, who is required by the new law to be
fingerprinted and photographed, refusing to submit to these new provisions, that person will
not be permitted to enter Japan, and will be required to leave the country.
2. Affected persons
All foreign nationals entering Japan will be subject to the new provisions, apart from
the following:
(1) Special permanent residents
(2) Persons under 16 years of age
(3) Those persons performing activities which fall under the status of residence for
ﾂ'Diplomat' or ﾂ'Official'
(4) Those persons who have been invited by the head of any national administrative
organization
(5) Those persons who are prescribed by the Ministry of Justice ordinance as equivalent to
either (3) or (4)
3. New Immigration Procedures
Applicants will be required to follow the following procedures.
窶｡@ A person wishing to enter Japan must submit his/her passport to
the immigration control officer.
窶｡A Once the immigration control officer has explained the procedures that are
to be followed, the person wishing to enter Japan will be asked to place the
index fingers of both hands on a digital fingerprint reader. The fingerprint
information will be read and stored electromagnetically.
窶｡B A facial photograph will then be taken, using the camera located at
the top of the digital fingerprint reader.
窶｡C The immigration control officer will then conduct a short interview.
窶｡D On completion of the above procedures, the person wishing to enter Japan
will receive his/her passport from the immigration control
 
I now wrote to my Member of Palaiment. I hope that Denmark and posibly EU will formally complain about these new measures. I really hope that these humiliating measures will newer be initiated. Therefor it is my hope that there will be an outcry from the rest of the world and that Japanese Embassies will have to receive formal complaints. I hope that Japan will react to diplomatic pressure, before 23rd November.

I hope that the diplomatic game of tit for tat will not start over this issue will be avoided, but maybe the procedures for Japanese citizens entering for example Europe will change. After all there have been several japanese terrorist from Aum and the Red Army in the past.

So if we all start treating each other with suspicion from now on, then we can waste our time and energy on haressing common people, while the real terrorists (who are often "homegrown") will not be affected.
 
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