Is the gaijin card ethical?

[Brooker]

Then your knowledge must not include the term "kiseru".

No it doesn't. What is it? :?

 

[Index]

No. Just common dignity and self-respect.

Right, like the way traffic police treat you with dignity and respect.

 

[GaijinPunch]

I had a few run-ins with the law. The only thing that didn't get my *** arrested was that I spoke Japanese. Long story that I won't get into. On that note, I've never played the gaijin card.

I have, however, just about once or twice, played my irate gaijin card. I had 3000 yen to my name, and lost my tsuuchou and bank card. They were telling me they had to mail me the form and I had to bring it back for security (even though I had my passport). I blew a gasket, as I hate having to borrow money from friends to survive -- especially when I'm paying an entity to hold quite a bit of mine. They expressed it, so it arrived the next day at lunch, as opposed to normal mail which would've been two days later. What miffed me the most wast hat the tenchou didn't have the nads to come and talk to me. He made the little girl fend for herself.

I assume that could be as shameful to some people, but I had very little choice. At least they compromised, although it definitely wasn't a victory.

 

[Silverpoint]

Right, like the way traffic police treat you with dignity and respect.

On the rare occasions I've had any dealings with Japanese cops I have never found them to be anything other than polite and courteous, regardless of what they're actually dealing with at the time. Just because they're writing you a speeding ticket, doesn't make them rude.

 

[Ewok85]

The few times I've talked to the police its been asking for help/directions and they've always helped me out

 

[Pachipro]

I've had a few experiences with the police for speeding, not having my gaijin card, etc. and I can't remember when I've ever played the "gaijin card" with the authorities as I always found it to my advantage to speak Japanese. Even when I was busted I spoke Japanese to the detectives and the judge. I think this helped my case, but I can't be sure. In a way it seemed to me to give me a few points with them vs. a gaijin who didn't/wouldn't speak Japanese

About the only time I played the "gaijin card" was when I was single and dating. I would pretend that I didn't speak much Japanese to find out what the women were really thinking about me/us, or what the propriators of a particular establishment were saying when I/we entered for a beer or something.

All in all speaking Japanese and letting other Japanese know that you understood and spoke the language seemed to be more benificial in the long run.

 

[Index]

Just because they're writing you a speeding ticket, doesn't make them rude.

Thanks for stating the obvious. Who said anything about being rude anyhow?

 

[GaijinPunch]

I actually went for 7 years and was never randomly stopped by police, but was on a recent trip earlier this month, for the first time. It was before the election, so they were on the look out for terrorists. Telling them in Japanese that I'm on vactation and don't live in Japan got a pretty interesting look. They were actually very, very polite.

 

[klausdorth]

14 + years over here in Japan, and I was stopped once for speeding. And even then my driver's license was good enough. Any other problems with the cops over here - well, at least not so far - as far as it might concern me and myself! I mean, you hardly see them on the road!

 

[Silverpoint]

Thanks for stating the obvious. Who said anything about being rude anyhow?

Disrespectful and rude tend to be fairly close in most people's view. You made what certainly came across as a sarcastic comment about police being disrespectful, with no evidence or mention of personal experience. If you didn't mean it that way, then I'd suggest avoiding such one-liners in future or you're likely to misunderstood.

My point was that people can often look back negatively on an experience (such as receiving a ticket) and believe that the police were being disrespectful or rude, when they were just carrying out their job. Japanese police can be at times be frustrating or ineffective, but I've never found them to be rude.

 

[Mike Cash]

Right, like the way traffic police treat you with dignity and respect.

I have had probably more encounters with the Japanese traffic police than any other foreigner here, and I have never been treated with other than dignity, respect, and professionalism by any of them.

 

[Mike Cash]

For Brooker:

"Kiseru" is the name of the traditional Japanese tobacco pipe, with metal bowl and mouthpiece connected by a wooden stem. As a slang term, it refers to cheating the railroads by buying a tickets/teiki for:

1. Origin to next station
2. Next to last station to destination

thereby avoiding paying the charges for the rest of the trip. I won't offer any speculation on how widespread it is or was, but will offer the observation that it was at least common enough for there to be a commonly known and understood term for it.

 

[Maciamo]

Did you ask for that particular train? Or did you ask for the particular destination and just assume the counter guy knew you meant the express?

I know it's hard for you to realize you could be in error on anything, but it is really unbecoming to accuse the railroad staff of lying to you. What possible reason would they have to lie about it? Anyway, tickets are clearly marked with the charges for the basic fare and for the express surcharge (when applicable).

I asked for that particular train. It was in Shikoku and there were only limited express trains between these 2 cities, and only one per hour. We asked expressedly because when we wanted to reserve seats on another limited express a few days before, we didn't have to pay a surplus, which surprised me. So I wanted to be sure and asked about that limited express and bought the ticket from the reservation counter staff. There couldn't have been a misunderstanding as my wife was with me. I suppose the guy was just tired and mistook...

 

[Mike Cash]

Never assume that the presence of a Japanese spouse precludes a misunderstanding. I learned this the hard way very early on in my married life.

 

[TwistedMac]

I'd play the card if I wasn't sucha scaredy-cat.

I have this motto... "never get greedy".. I always have to explain it to people, and even then, they don't get it but it makes perfect sense to me.

It just means I'll do illegal stuff or whatever I feel is moraly justifiable to myself, I get no qualms over looting a few bucks off some record company by grabbing the new album in MP3s rather than buying it, but I stop before the rapid upswing in risk occurs. So I would never say burn it and sell it.

I kid myself into thinking this will keep me out of troublesome situations.
Somehow I think fooling the cops is a bad move... if they find out, they'll think you've taken them for fools and I know that would piss me off royaly, so I have no illusions it would do anything else to them... and I really don't want to deal with pissed off cops that have already got my nuts in the nutcracker...

 

[Pierrot le Fou]

It depends on the circumstance.

I have absolutely no problems using it on any Japanese person who comes to my door, most namely the NHK man, as well as people demanding I subscribe to their newspapers. I am polite when I open the door, but if it turns out to be either of those two types, I say 'iie, iie' and if they persist, cut the Japanese off entirely.

Do unto others or somesuch.

 

[Jevon]

He was just saving himself from a three year suspension and 250,000 yen fine, which I had to pay because I spoke to the police in Japanese.

What isn't ethical is that fact that traveling Japanese and anyone else from any other country can use international licenses consecutivally (year after year) while the GAIJIN in Japan can only use it for one year. Japan is the only country that does that. That is unethical!!!!!!
If you lived overseas, you wouldn't be in the same perdicament that your friend was in.

That's what I think.

 

[Mike Cash]

He was just saving himself from a three year suspension and 250,000 yen fine, which I had to pay because I spoke to the police in Japanese.

Are you sure it wasn't because you were driving illegally?

What isn't ethical is that fact that traveling Japanese and anyone else from any other country can use international licenses consecutivally (year after year) while the GAIJIN in Japan can only use it for one year. Japan is the only country that does that. That is unethical!!!!!!
If you lived overseas, you wouldn't be in the same perdicament that your friend was in.

That's what I think.

I think it is no onerous burden to obtain a Japanese license if you wish to continue driving for more than a year in Japan.

 

[GaijinPunch]

I think the international license thing is... well, silly. Just b/c you can drive in the country side of the deep south doesn't mean you can drive through Tokyo. Besides, how is a law stating you can only use a piece of paper for a specific amount of time unethical?

 

[pipokun]

What isn't ethical is that fact that traveling Japanese and anyone else from any other country can use international licenses consecutivally (year after year) while the GAIJIN in Japan can only use it for one year. Japan is the only country that does that. That is unethical!!!!!!
If you lived overseas, you wouldn't be in the same perdicament that your friend was in.
That's what I think.

Just curious in which countries you can use your IDP, "year after year", as you said and which country issues such a premium IDP.

 

[Pierrot le Fou]

Also, bear in mind that while Americans have to pass the hard-*** entire driving test in order to receive their Japanese license, Brits and New Zealanders (and possibly Australians?) only need to go in for an eye test and possibly a written exam to get their license transferred. Apparently there was a slew of Japanese nationals who went to the US to get a license and use the IDP in Japan rather because it was cheaper/easier, so the law was changed, though the relative difficulty is due to decentralized licensing procedures in the US.

I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Mike Cash]

I've gone through the full procedure twice (once for large trucks, once for tractor-trailers) in Japan and don't consider the fact that Americans have to go through a watered-down driving test in order to change their US license over to be an undue burden...and certainly not an excuse to continue driving illegally here.

 

[Mandylion]

Also, bear in mind that while Americans have to pass the hard-*** entire driving test in order to receive their Japanese license, Brits and New Zealanders (and possibly Australians?) only need to go in for an eye test and possibly a written exam to get their license transferred. Apparently there was a slew of Japanese nationals who went to the US to get a license and use the IDP in Japan rather because it was cheaper/easier, so the law was changed, though the relative difficulty is due to decentralized licensing procedures in the US.

I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In general, yes, but the list of fast-tracked countries is determined (so I hear) by which countries have liscencing standards similar to Japan's (like you alluded to above) - however, instead of simply prohibiting a Japanese citizen from driving in their own country on an IDP - like any other country should and does - they simply made all IDP's one year jobs.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Also, bear in mind that while Americans have to pass the hard-*** entire driving test in order to receive their Japanese license, Brits and New Zealanders (and possibly Australians?) only need to go in for an eye test and possibly a written exam to get their license transferred. Apparently there was a slew of Japanese nationals who went to the US to get a license and use the IDP in Japan rather because it was cheaper/easier, so the law was changed, though the relative difficulty is due to decentralized licensing procedures in the US.

I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I heard through the grapevine that holders of American licenses have to take the test because one drives on the right hand side of the road in the US. I don't know if this has any truth to it.

I have taken the test, and I have Japanese friends who have taken the REAL test. The test I had to take was a joke in comparison to the real one. First ten easy questions for the paper exam. They were even in English and a host of other languages (in Yamaguchi Prefecture no less. Not exactly a metropolis!) The driving test was on a closed course and it was very short.

Sure I failed 2 or 3 times, but it took me that long to realize that in Japan, a test and actual reality are two completely separate entities.

It was annoying, but I disagree that is difficult.

If you plan to stay in Japan or any other country for an extended period of time and you intend to drive, I think you should take the time to obtain a valid local license. I don't believe that the IDL was ever intended to be used over the long term anyway.

If you are caught by the police with an invalid license, I don't see how you can honestly blame the authorities for YOUR actions. I have no sympathy for someone who does something he or she knows is wrong and tries to blame other people or tries otherwise to get out of trouble.

 

[deadhippo]

i just used the gaijin card last night when the yahoo BB salesman called but i kicked myself afterwards because i had intended asking him how he had gotten my number