- 18 Nov 2013
- 23
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What "attitude" did you mean when you tried to compare it to that in other countries? Attitude(s) toward what? And, what "differences" did you feel might go away?
When I think of "Japanese" clothing, generally I get some vague image of people carrying paper fans and wearing robes. I know that Japanese people today dress more like us, but I guess I see dressing like us as symbolic of wanting to act more like us. If you say it's unrelated, I believe you.Clothing? I have to wonder if you think Japanese walk around in kimonos and happi a lot even 60 years ago. They are actually a very fashion-conscious society, and with globalization bringing information to people faster and faster, it's no surprise that they dress more like the west. Kimonos and happi will not go out of style, though.
So, wait, are they extremely conservative? As in, being intolerant of abortion, homosexuality, etc?Parochial attitudes towards children, or at work, etc.? Nope. Not going to change. It took 40 years just to get the birth control pill accepted here, and even then only in a limited way.
Are Japanese known for having a strong work ethic? I've never heard that, but that's interesting.Work ethic? I don't see employees going home early when the boss stays late...ever.
This is just plain silly wording. "Let them"??? Nobody is outright stopping them; it's their way! Their culture. Their tradition. Besides, something like that particular custom is a very smart one (to avoid tracking in dirt).maybe they'd start letting people wear shoes indoors
You really don't know that much, do you?! (No offense.) I'm quite surprised that you could even start a thread challenging huge aspects of a culture that you admit to knowing practically nothing about.
This is just plain silly wording. "Let them"??? Nobody is outright stopping them; it's their way! Their culture. Their tradition. Besides, something like that particular custom is a very smart one (to avoid tracking in dirt).
Robes!!?!?! Good grief! Those are kimonos! How can you have any interest in the culture yet be so blatantly ignorant of such a basic thing as that? It's practically a troll-like statement.
Come back and ask away, but I strongly suggest you learn more from other sources first, especially when you begin a thread that asks about changing an entire culture yet you "don't really know what the most fundamental differences are in the first place".
One advice, all this BS about woman's rights and abortion and the PC dribbled fluff is only relevant in the Anglo Saxon hemisphere. In the rest of the world, I.e. Non British colonies, it's really no big deal. Stuff like multi-cultralism are a pure artificial construct stemmed from the Anglo Saxon's guilt of centuries of colonization and had no relevance in other nations especially in Japan.
In my opinion, yes, it's that big a deal. I'm sorry if that offends you.Is it that big a deal that I don't know the right term for a traditional piece of clothing worn in a country I've never spent time in? I'm sorry, then.
Nowhere in the world is culture a static thing. It constantly changes. The more influences are introduced from outside, the more it is susceptible to change. Japan is not a place where change takes place quickly, though.I wasn't suggesting that they change their culture, I was asking if their culture was changing already due to modernization and such, and in what ways.
For your sake and those who have criticized my responses, please note carefully that in my previous post I openly stated "Come back and ask away".I was really just curious, and assumed questions were welcome. I didn't think I was going to cause problems.
Here are some snippets from various news stories (not all 100% accurate, but close enough) to help you learn more.Are Japanese known for having a strong work ethic? I've never heard that, but that's interesting.
Strongly disagree with all of this. I know Japanese women and third generation Koreans who would disagree too. And as an Anglo-Saxon, I wouldn't blame any of multiculturalism on guilt, but instead on the fact that English countries tend to be actually multicultural, and people need to get along with one another... But that's another topic.
Ummm the so called English countries you refer to are British colonies I assume who killed off the natives and now sharing the spoils with the rest of the world with open door immigration policy? Let's call spade a spade.
Unfortunately that crap doesn't work for the rest of the world that isn't a British colony as Angela Merkel can tell you but its too PC to even talk about it. Japan is wise not to follow.
You get into arguments/offend half the new members who show up here. Either they all have problems, or you do. The common denominator is Glenski, so odds are.... This is not to say you shouldn't interact with new members or pull a Mike Cash and run away, just to say that you could be a lot more sympathetic to those who don't have near to the same experience in Japan that you do, including not being shocked that they don't know the word kimono.Manner issues?? I did say "no offense", and I didn't call him stupid or curse. It's pretty obvious how naive the OP is, and I think I kept a check on my tongue to make my point.
Do Americans really wear their shoes in the house? Bizarre. Then again, you haven't figured out how to make a proper cup of tea yet, so I don't know why I'm surprised.
nahadef,
Read things carefully, please.
I am not arguing anything with Jeremy.
I don't think I have offended him. He thinks he has offended me.
I don't know what you mean by your statement about Mike Cash, and it doesn't matter.
But let's not get off topic here. I'm eager to hear what Jeremy has to say, believe it or not.
If this was the first time someone wrote something like this, I'd come to your defence. It's not. Whatsoever. This site needs more people being nice to new members, and helping them out, than it does stuck-up know-it-alls. You know about Japan, and if you were nice in how you shared information, a) people would like you more, and b) the site would be healthier. Just don't make new members feel dumb. Everyone has their own level of experience. Is that so much to ask?If I had known I was going to offend you, I wouldn't have started the thread. I'm sorry about all this, but I was really just curious, and assumed questions were welcome. I didn't think I was going to cause problems.
My life experience has been totally different, and I've lived in small, medium, and large cities. So, let's not generalize too much.No, shoes aren't worn in the house, but it's not a super-firm rule. If the weather is clear, and you need to pop into the house for a piss, that's not a big deal, shoes are okay.
Look at Jeremy's profile to see what appears to be a fairly extensive interest in Japanese culture and explain to me why he didn't know a simple fact such as kimonos. No, I'm not trying to make him or anyone else feel dumb. Naivete shows, however, and I'm very surprised at it considering what he lists as cultural interests. Surprise is not bad manners, nor is it a sign of being a know-it-all.Just don't make new members feel dumb. Everyone has their own level of experience. Is that so much to ask?
Jeremy,
IMO, you just don't seem to get it. Making statements like "Does it seem like Japan's modernization is slowly cultivating an attitude more similar to that of America or Europe?" when you can't even explain/define "attitude" is asking for trouble.
Well, actually I came to ask this question as part of a general curiosity about the impact of globalization. Japan isn't the only nation about which I've asked this question. I'm asking the question about Japan to be relevant to this forum's content, but the broader question I want to ask is whether the world in general is becoming more similar due to these influences.Furthermore, asking this question when you admit you haven't much of a clue about the differences begs the question of what you do know, and how you even came to wondering about this. This is the vantage point I'm coming from, not from any sort of anger.
It didn't occur to me that asking a question could be interpreted as a criticism. And honestly, your question here doesn't offend me at all. I do actually think it's possible that Americans would start removing shoes indoors. In fact, I do know of a few that already expect that. Sometimes they're Asian-Americans who just continued the tradition, but I have seen African-Americans, Caucasians, and Hispanics who have adopted such a rule as well. Usually it's either because they have hardwood floors, they're obsessed with hygiene, or they picked it up from an Asian friend. Older and more traditional people here still see taking your shoes off in their home as "too casual" and don't care for it, but there are other people who don't like dirt on their carpets and expect you to remove shoes. At this point, I have to look at people's feet when I come in and glance around for a pile of shoes to figure out what's expected of me. Everyone seems to have a different standard, but I have no problem going along with either way.In a sense, yes, you were challenging the Japanese POV. You came right out and asked whether they would change certain things, like the tradition of removing shoes. Asking that implies that you feel the Japanese custom is an incorrect or improper thing to do. Whether you meant that or not, let me put the question in reverse to you and see how you feel.
Q: Do you think Americans will ever change their ways of wearing shoes in the house, considering the huge influence of Japanese immigrants (or other Asians who remove shoes)? I mean, lots of Americans like sushi, karaoke, Pokemon, Hello Kitty, and manga/anime, so why don't they also adopt Japanese traditions like the shoe thing?
I've seen examples of foreign influence affecting local traditions and replacing indigenous beliefs, though. It's not really a far-fetched concept in Sociology. Again, I'm not suggesting they "should" do anything, although I know it sounded that way. I was just trying to find out what IS happening, without regard to whether it "should" be happening or not. It's really a matter of collecting data so that I can categorize groups of people.See my point? To "stop observing the tradition due to foreign influence" is just silly.
Yeah, that is actually one of the things I was wondering. How quickly their culture assimilates outside influences, how adaptable it is, etc. So, thanks.Japan is not a place where change takes place quickly, though.
Wow. No wonder their cars tend to be high-quality. They really devote themselves to their work. And it's pretty noble how they focus on the needs of their family or company over their own.Here are some snippets from various news stories (not all 100% accurate, but close enough) to help you learn more.
Japan's deadly work ethic - San Francisco Expatriate Travel | Examiner.com
Tradition Sets Japan Work Ethic - Chicago Tribune
Why do the Japanese Work Such Long?Hours? | RocketNews24
Toyota undone by Japan's work ethic? | Jenny Holt | Comment is free | theguardian.com
Eh, some of us do, and some of us don't, these days. I do whatever my host expects. Attitudes range from expecting the shoes to come off, to being offended if you do take them off. I'm perfectly comfortable with going barefoot, and with keeping shoes on, so it doesn't matter to me.Do Americans really wear their shoes in the house? Bizarre. Then again, you haven't figured out how to make a proper cup of tea yet, so I don't know why I'm surprised.
Not at all. I think the problem comes from a veteran member making a new member feel like a nuisance. It happens way too often, so I stepped in.I feel like I may have started a fight here. I'm sorry about the trouble.
They are already. Look at the backwards policy that just became law (thanks in part to interference/influence from the U.S.):if Japan don't start to loosen up a little bit on the hierarchic structure of society and accept that times and people are changing, they are going to end up in a time bubble.
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They are already. Look at the backwards policy that just became law (thanks in part to interference/influence from the U.S.):
Japan's Parliament Approves a Secrecy Law Amid Protests (Published 2013)
Japan's secrecy bill condemned by Nobel academics