Is "Gaijin" a Racist Slur?

[gaijinalways]

Mrjones,

I think you need to see more of the posts in this thread.

Japanese people shouldn't be blamed as a whole if you don't like the word gaijin or the way you are treated by some people there, because every country has people who won't welcome other people because they don't like people from other counries or whatever.

Perhaps change the 'some' to 'too many', especially in comparision with other places I have visited, well the modern ones anyway. As we explained earlier, using 'foreigner' or the word 'outside person' when you know the person's name or nationality is odd at best, just plain ignorant or rude at worst.

 

[caster51]

Gai-jin means not Japanese and gaikogu-jin means foreigner. Gai-jin-san means, mr don't know your orgins. Gai-jin-san has nohing to do with racism... its very simple

Yeah, It is very simple.. it is a kind of persecution complex

that is why no Japanese is interested in that....
and they dont know how gaijin thinks a word of "gaijin" because there is few japanese here

 

[gaijinalways]

Yeah, It is very simple.. it is a kind of persecution complex

Caster, I would suggest that you try the same 'Japanese' behaviour when you go to the US or any other developed country and see if people think it's normal .

 

[caster51]

I would suggest that you try the same 'Japanese' behaviour when you go to the US or any other developed country and see if people think it's normal

you are using "Gaijin always" ,right?
it is simple that I am a gaijin in US..

if someone call Eiji Wentz a gaijin ,It would be very impolite to him.
because he is a Japanese
Eiji Wentz - Wikipedia

 

[gaijinalways]

Caster,
sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Caster, you need to reread some of the thread. Especiallyﾂ my earlier comments concerning using a person's name or nationality if it is known rather than just referring to him or her as a non-Japanese. As I stated earlier, people don't do this in other developed countries. Yes in Thailand, you will probably always be the farang, but Japan is not Thailand.

 

[firefly]

I always find it funny when someone refers to me as Gaijin-san in Japan. Mr Foreigner....! I always make a point to call them nihonjin-san in return. They always look at me funny, but I hope that sometimes they go home and have a good think about how foreigners might feel about being called such a general handle.

On the greater subject, I think that gaijin is pretty offensive, but I also don't blame the Japanese for using it. As many posters have rightly pointed out, they just don't know any better, and they don't have the experience with foreigners to understand that some people might be offended.

In many ways, the word "gaijin" is similar to a slur starting with "N". Both of these terms have very negative origins, are designed to make the recipient feel alienated, and yet people in these groups use the same word to refer to themselves jokingly and even affectionately.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I always find it funny when someone refers to me as
On the greater subject, I think that gaijin is pretty offensive, but I also don't blame the Japanese for using it. As many posters have rightly pointed out, they just don't know any better, and they don't have the experience with foreigners to understand that some people might be offended.

"they just don't know any better" is pretty condescending, don't you think?

Perhaps they don't even care if they offend an occassional foreigner. Lord knows they don't mind offending each other!

 

[Gentleman10]

Lol, I've seen this argument so many times. I think people are going to take offense to the word just as any English word. People use 'idiot' all the time, sometimes for joking around, and other times to insult people. "You *!@#! idiot" vs "lol your such an idiot" have two different meanings as we all know, so wouldn't you think 'Gaijin' does too? In most cases, I'd imagine it being a matter of oversensitivity, but really people, if it were a flat out slur, then I don't think we'd even be debating the subject.

 

[gaijinalways]

Quote:Originally Posted by firefly
I always find it funny when someone refers to me as
On the greater subject, I think that gaijin is pretty offensive, but I also don't blame the Japanese for using it. As many posters have rightly pointed out, they just don't know any better, and they don't have the experience with foreigners to understand that some people might be offended.

"they just don't know any better" is pretty condescending, don't you think?

Perhaps they don't even care if they offend an occassional foreigner. Lord knows they don't mind offending each other!

I've never gotten that impression. Many Japanese in other ways would go out of their way to avoid even the appearance of offending someone, but for some reason using 'gaijin' when other choices are available does 'seem' to show an unawareness of how offensive its usage is seen by some of the people it is directed at.

As to whether it's life threatening, well no, it's not. But it doesn't leave me with a warm feeling while living here .

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I've never gotten that impression. Many Japanese in other ways would go out of their way to avoid even the appearance of offending someone, but for some reason using 'gaijin' when other choices are available does 'seem' to show an unawareness of how offensive its usage is seen by some of the people it is directed at.
As to whether it's life threatening, well no, it's not. But it doesn't leave me with a warm feeling while living here .

I've seen Japanese people be rude to each other so many times it's not even funny. Almost never someone to a customer, but just people on the street, or customers to whoever they're doing business with.

It's nothing special, really. It's more just to point out that Japanese people are just like anyone else, and yes, they can be rude when they want to.

I'm mostly talking about blue collar workers and their family members, although I'Ve seen white collar workers and of course yakuza be rude plenty of times, too.

 

[Goldiegirl]

my fiance was talking to his friend in Japanese and I heard the word gaijin...hmmm...yep they were talking about me. I don't speak any japanese, but I know a few words...so when I heard gaijin it got my attention instantly.

 

[Glenn]

I would recommend not jumping to conclusions if you only know a few words. Were they pointing at you or looking at you when they said it? If I hardly knew Japanese and took every instance of gaijin to mean that someone was talking badly about me, then I would have been mistaken about the comments that people were making in the shop when I was getting my hair cut and they were saying that there are so many different kinds of foreigners and it really makes the world and interesting place, and that it's amazing that foreigners can learn to speak Japanese so well but Japanese people try all they can and can hardly remember a few words of English.

 

[gaijinalways]

Mikawa posted

........Almost never someone to a customer, but just people on the street, or customers to whoever they're doing business with.......

I hear you Mikawa. I am very aware of some people being rude in public space areas in Japan, but often this rudeness is more of the nonverbal type where people sometimes don't seem to use common sense, i.e. blocking doorways, talking loudly on a mobile in the train, etc

I have seen a few instances of train or 'public' rage, but it is still pretty rare and minimal compared to most places in Europe or the US. Unfortunately, cities do bring out the worst in people sometimes.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Sorry Glenn, I didn't mean to make what I overheard sound like I was upset or mad...that wasn't the case at all. I was just suprised to actually hear a word I knew. And yes, they were talking about me, because I asked. Basically they were discussing our upcoming trip to Japan and were concerned about me being comfortable and they were planning on taking me to dinner where there would be other foreigners. So really I don't think the word was used negatively.

 

[Glenn]

Alright. Haha, just glad to hear a word you knew, eh? I know that feeling.

 

[Ltsteffie]

I've only recently come across the term "gaijin", and from what I hear of its usage, it tends to carry a negative connotation, but then again, wouldn't that be determined by the tone of the speaker? The same way that "baka" can be spoken and taken to even mean "silly", by a light tone of voice?

 

[firefly]

No, I don't think it's condescending. I think that since Japan is such a homogeneous society, naturally people don't have as much experience with non-Japanese as say, the Americans, Australians, English, etc.
People from multicultural countries will naturally have a better understanding and sensitivity to other cultures when compared to a homogeneous country. It's not condescending, it's simply fact.

"they just don't know any better" is pretty condescending, don't you think?
Perhaps they don't even care if they offend an occassional foreigner. Lord knows they don't mind offending each other!

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Well, I don't feel like arguing this point, so I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

[firefly]

It wasn't my intention to get into an argument, but I don't see where our disagreement is. All I'm saying is that people from a multicultural country will be more culturally sensitive and aware than a homogeneous country like Japan. Do you disagree?

Well, I don't feel like arguing this point, so I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Perhaps it is more a choice of words than anything. I think that saying "they don't know any better" implies a value judgement, or at the very least, that the speaker assumes that he or she has superior knowledge or morals or whatever the case may be. I often hear this phrase spoken when describing children.

This point:

All I'm saying is that people from a multicultural country will be more culturally sensitive and aware than a homogeneous country like Japan.

is much more to my liking.

Which is better, though? That is a topic for another day and another thread.

 

[firefly]

Ok, then I guess we're just quabbling over words. There wasn't an intended value judgment in there, just an observed fact. I've observed Japanese people being insensitive simply from a lack of knowledge and experience rather than any real desire to hurt or offend.

"They don't know any better" is just much faster to say than "people from a multicultural country will be more culturally sensitive and aware than a homogeneous country like Japan."

Glad we cleared that up.

 

[gaijinalways]

Interesting point, but you have wonder, how long does it take to know or be educated about it. As pointed out in another thread, Foreigners were relating this kind of issue on Japanese TV in the 80s and we still have this problem now?! Is that a slow learning curve or what?

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I think the thing to keep in mind is that Japan and Japanese people play by their own rules on their own turf, and while they actually do give some attention to the attitudes and needs of the foreign community (at least within the governmental level), as a society, I think it's safe to say that the don't care about our opinions on things such as the use of the word "gaijin". So it' not really matter of a learning curve.

And to be honest, I couldn't really care much either. I use the word "gaijin" probably exactly the same way that Japanese do in the same contexts. I come from America, a country founded on immigration and the influx of foreigners. Does that mean that I have "regressed" somehow or have a steep "learning curve" ahead of me? I don't think so.

 

[firefly]

True.. but do you know many Japanese people who wouldn't be responsive to a comment to the effect of "hey, if you call someone a gaijin-san, they could actually be offended by that since it's a very generic alienating term" ?

I think most Japanese people would be taken back, then have a think about it, then come to understand the point being made.

I don't think Japanese are so callous as to feel like they're "playing their own rules on their own turf, so we don't care about foreigner opinions".

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Hi again!

True.. but do you know many Japanese people who wouldn't be responsive to a comment to the effect of "hey, if you call someone a gaijin-san, they could actually be offended by that since it's a very generic alienating term" ?

Well, to be honest, I don't know. Seeing as I have never been offended by the use of the term, it honestly hasn't come up in conversation much. Oh, I'll admit that there was a time when I tried to avoid it's use and say more specific terms in its place, but then I realized that I wasn't helping the situation at all. It just made me sound more like a gaijin, and I ended up having to explain too much.

Now when I take the subject of what other countries are like (which is different from the immediate topic at hand, but it's the closest thing with which I can use as a comparison,) I just say what I know, and be clear on the areas I don't know. It gets treated the same way as if a Japanese person said the same thing usually, so I take that to be a good thing.

The point is, getting upset over the use of the term "gaijin" (which I know you seem not to be, Firefly), solves nothing, and the best approach is rational conversation. Much like you suggest, in fact. But in addition I think it is imperative to remember that your efforts will cause little to no change in Japanese attitudes and behavior in general, so don't be surprised when you never see any change.

I don't think Japanese are so callous as to feel like they're "playing their own rules on their own turf, so we don't care about foreigner opinions".

I don't think it's a conscious thought. But I do think it's true, nonetheless. Don't get me wrong; I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing.