Idols, Dreams, the Abstract

[Nuala]

Idols:
Humanity as a culture has a tendency to idolize those in a position above us. Music idols, religious figures, those with more money than us, and so on. We do it because they have more power than we do. Who can't say that God is humanity's greatest and most debated fictional character to ever be created? Who can say that Brittany Spears wasn't idolized, and that Lady Gaga is not enjoying the same treatment now? Or how about the debates between which "prophet" is the right one? And who doesn't sometimes wish they had the money that Donald Trump has? Or the political power carried by the Kennedy brothers? Those our are idols.

Dreams:
Our dreams are considered a method in which our subconsciousness speaks to us. They are what we hope for when we sleep. Forgetting them before we wake constantly happens. It's a matter of concern to us what's rolling around in our heads while we sleep, isn't it? Do we see ourselves for what we should be? Do we dread over what we are? Are you afraid of what you dream of? What does flying while we sleep mean? What does drowning in our sleep mean? Is it simply just a way for our subconscious to tell us what we're already feeling? Are your worries simply drowning you? Isn't the REM state of sleeping one of the most profound and interesting discoveries of recent history?

the Abstract:
From paranormal entities to superhuman abilities, what out there is unexplained? Do rushes of adrenaline give us the energy needed to do feats beyond human ability? Is there a vast human unconsciousness, connecting us all? That which we in terms of animals call instincts, but more developed? Wouldn't that make sense? We are a bit more evolved than a wolf, and they certainly have instincts, as do human beings, so would it make sense that it were possible? Can we bend spoons, move objects, or predict the future using latent abilities in our minds?

So, between idols, dreams, and the abstract, tell everyone on the community what you think on these subjects.

 

[Half-n-Half]

I don't have much to say about idols. They are what they are, and kids/teens will look up to whomever. As long as it doesn't get to the point of massive brainwashing and controlling I don't see a problem, although I'm sure someone will correct me on this.

As for dreams, as far as I understand it they are a result of our brains processing what happened throughout the day and are also a result of what is worrying us. That's probably why some people think they are premonitions when they come true. Since what most people worry about are very real things that can very likely happen, it's no miracle if one of those events might actually occur from your dream.

From paranormal entities to superhuman abilities, what out there is unexplained?

Everything that is not explained? Lol, I find this question a bit rhetorical.

Do rushes of adrenaline give us the energy needed to do feats beyond human ability?

Yes, although I'm no doctor.

Is there a vast human unconsciousness, connecting us all? That which we in terms of animals call instincts, but more developed?

Not that I know of.

Wouldn't that make sense? We are a bit more evolved than a wolf, and they certainly have instincts, as do human beings, so would it make sense that it were possible?

Sure it makes sense it were possible, it makes sense anything is possible, but whether it is true or not is a different story. Why would more "evolved" (which in this sense I think you mean more intelligent) = a collective mind?

Can we bend spoons, move objects, or predict the future using latent abilities in our minds?

It's never been proven or demonstrated under controlled conditions, but if we can we are pretty shi**y at it.

 

[Nuala]

You have no imagination!

 

[Mike Cash]

You have no imagination!

An Apology
I've spent several minutes quickly going over several of my posts from around the time I joined this forum. The posts I made are now embarrassing to me, and I'm sure many of the long time members of this forum have put their palms over their faces and shook their heads many times due to me.

So, to all the long time members of this forum, I say thank you for putting up with me for as long as you have.

The more things change the more they remain the same.

 

[Half-n-Half]

You have no imagination!

Lol, sorry. You have too much imagination!

 

[Nuala]

The more things change the more they remain the same.

Nice one, but I think it's a tad inflammatory and off-topic. It also makes me very sad.

I don't have much to say about idols. They are what they are, and kids/teens will look up to whomever. As long as it doesn't get to the point of massive brainwashing and controlling I don't see a problem, although I'm sure someone will correct me on this.

On the subject of brainwashing, how do you feel about groups like Scientology? Scientology has wonderful training sessions! The first training routine involved two people sitting silently whilst facing each other, with their eyes closed. In the second, they stare at each other, sometimes for hours on end. The second training routine is called, Bullbait, the student has to sit motionless, while the "coach" does everything possible to disturb the student. The student progresses to reading aloud disconnected phrases from a novel, and then acknowledge statements read out at random from the same book.

The third training routine is where the student asks the coach either "Do fish swim?" or "Do Birds fly?". In the last training routine, the student again asks one of these questions repeatedly, learning not to be distracted by anything the coach says or does. I think these training routines would make someone vulnerable to persuasion, it's certainly going to mess with their heads after awhile, so whose to say it wouldn't make them more susceptible to direction from Scientology? I think this is a clear case of brainwashing. What do you think, Half-n-Half?

Lol, sorry. You have too much imagination!

That's true enough, and I also haven't slept since 8 PM CST last night. Anyways, my intention was for this thread to be a bit less intense than some of the more frequented threads in this section, but still serious discussion. I guess talking about anything that's discussed or falls within the reach of Coast 2 Coast AM would fit properly in this thread.

 

[Half-n-Half]

On the subject of brainwashing, how do you feel about groups like Scientology? Scientology has wonderful training sessions! The first training routine involved two people sitting silently whilst facing each other, with their eyes closed. In the second, they stare at each other, sometimes for hours on end. The second training routine is called, Bullbait, the student has to sit motionless, while the "coach" does everything possible to disturb the student. The student progresses to reading aloud disconnected phrases from a novel, and then acknowledge statements read out at random from the same book.

I don't like Scientology, not particularly because their beliefs sound bat-**** crazy to me and were written by a sci-fi author, but because of how they operate. They lie intentionally, they're manipulative, use their members for money, target celebrities to popularize themselves and are a brainwashed cult that would probably kill if asked to. In fact, their "Fair Game Policy" states that anyone who is deemed an enemy of scientology "May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." The fact that they are beginning to be recognized as a religion and therefore being given tax exempt status is just mind boggling.

The third training routine is where the student asks the coach either "Do fish swim?" or "Do Birds fly?". In the last training routine, the student again asks one of these questions repeatedly, learning not to be distracted by anything the coach says or does. I think these training routines would make someone vulnerable to persuasion, it's certainly going to mess with their heads after awhile, so whose to say it wouldn't make them more susceptible to direction from Scientology? I think this is a clear case of brainwashing. What do you think, Half-n-Half?

I think it's a way to train them so that when confronted by an "enemy of Scientology" they can continually spout "What are your crimes?" without being distracted or having to make a solid argument. As for whether it is brainwashing or not, of course it is.

 

[Hezam]

An Apology
I've spent several minutes quickly going over several of my posts from around the time I joined this forum. The posts I made are now embarrassing to me, and I'm sure many of the long time members of this forum have put their palms over their faces and shook their heads many times due to me.
So, to all the long time members of this forum, I say thank you for putting up with me for as long as you have.

Sometimes when i think of the posts i made after i joined JREF i wished i didn't post them,i feel very embarrased,Especially that one about ASHIKAGA & Uncle Frank ...damn it damn it damn it

 

[Nuala]

I don't like Scientology, not particularly because their beliefs sound bat-**** crazy to me and were written by a sci-fi author, but because of how they operate. They lie intentionally, they're manipulative, use their members for money, target celebrities to popularize themselves and are a brainwashed cult that would probably kill if asked to. In fact, their "Fair Game Policy" states that anyone who is deemed an enemy of scientology "May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." The fact that they are beginning to be recognized as a religion and therefore being given tax exempt status is just mind boggling.
I think it's a way to train them so that when confronted by an "enemy of Scientology" they can continually spout "What are your crimes?" without being distracted or having to make a solid argument. As for whether it is brainwashing or not, of course it is.

A Scientologist followed the group I was with while we were protesting Scientology in '08. He said nothing to us, would not respond to us, and it was rather scary. It's definitely what they do, Half-n-Half. Scientology scares the crap out of me due to the fact it's not shut down yet.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Funny you should start a thread partly about dreams as I was thinking about doing so last night in bed. Anyway...

Idols

I worry about the part idols play in Western society. It seems to me that the "cult of the celebrity" might be responsible for many of our problems. People see pop stars and footballers getting paid vast amounts of money for doing something they love, often behaving in an anti-social, if not criminal, manner, and many of them want to emulate that lifestyle. People seem to value the appearance of wealth and the acquisition of property much too highly, probably because they see those in the public eye flaunting it so much. It's vulgar.

There are people in the public eye whom I admire. I might even get a bit silly if I met some of them. But I certainly don't admire or covet their wealth or bad behaviour.

Dreams

I think dreams might have meanings that aren't immediately obvious, although not to the extent of the rubbish they print in dream books.

I regularly have toilet dreams. I am trying to go in a public toilet and something is always preventing me; the door doesn't lock, there's no paper, the toilet is blocked or people can see me. Guess what? I always wake up needing the loo! I think the situation in the dream is my brain's way of preventing me from wetting myself

The abstract

I personally wouldn't use this term to describe the things you listed, as it's rather an ambiguous word with several different meanings. I guess you're using it in the sense of "things that are hard to explain". I think "paranormal" is a better term. We already have a thread about this subject: Paranormal Phenomena

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that humans are more evolved than wolves. Are we better adapted to our environment than wolves are to theirs?

 

[Nuala]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that humans are more evolved than wolves. Are we better adapted to our environment than wolves are to theirs?

We don't know half of what we're capable of, Tsuyoiko. Despite the leaps and bounds that science has taken in the last century, much is still unknown. Would I say we're better at adapting to environments better than a wolf? Yes, I would say that. However, wolves are very much so adapted to their environment. However, I think it would likely die if taken out of it. Much akin to a deer coming out of a wooded area and being hit by a car. I believe the same would apply to a wolf.

I suppose for right now it would be best to say we're more advanced.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I suppose for right now it would be best to say we're more advanced.

I'm suspicious of the term "more evolved", because I don't think our ability to adapt to different environments is purely the result of evolution. However, I'm still not really happy with the term "more advanced". It seems to imply a forward march from some starting point towards some desired goal.

Have you read The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould?

 

[Nuala]

No, I haven't read, "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen Jay Gould. However, after reading the Wikipedia article on it, it seems as though I am very interested in reading it. So, "The social and economic differences between human groups; primarily races, classes, and genders arise from inherited, inborn distinctions and that society, in this sense, is an accurate reflection of biology".

I would be inclined to say that if I read the book, I might agree with some of the points raised. Our "propensity for odering complex variation as a gradual ascending scale" rings true to me. Especially the fact that IQ tests are used to rank people in a single series of worthiness. It rings true to me, and now I am going to buy this book.

Thanks. ._.

 

[witnessingpresence]

Kill your idols