Have had this item since the 1970's and was from a WW2 veteran of the Pacific War . I've always thought it something to do with Buddhism/Shintoism or maybe even Zen ??? or maybe a police billy club !!! would definitely smart if hit on the head or anywhere for that matter. I suppose it could be Chinese but the vet was in occupied Japan?? The kanji is beyond me to comprehend. thanks for allowing me to ask !
ID this WW2 item
- Thread starter Laoto
- Start date
- 12 Oct 2013
- 4,071
- 5,023
It is a ceremonial scepter, called a "ryuyi" in Chinese. In Japanese its called a nyoi-bō.
The inscription is somewhat difficult.
以明鏡如止水
The characters in black are a 4-character idiom 明鏡止水 meaning clear and calm, free from distraction or evil influence. It's a phrase that evokes the calm and clear spirit of the Buddha. The other characters (in red) kind of break up the idiom, so I don't have high confidence that I've accurately got them right. You might post on Reddit under the "translation" sub-reddit to see if any of the people there can help.
I think yours may have been wrapped so that it can be carried like a weapon, but that wouldn't be the original purpose. (Although I agree it makes a formidable weapon!).
I found a similar one on Yahoo with a different inscription.
(I like the inscription on yours better).
Edit: I think yours is Japanese.
The inscription is somewhat difficult.
以明鏡如止水
The characters in black are a 4-character idiom 明鏡止水 meaning clear and calm, free from distraction or evil influence. It's a phrase that evokes the calm and clear spirit of the Buddha. The other characters (in red) kind of break up the idiom, so I don't have high confidence that I've accurately got them right. You might post on Reddit under the "translation" sub-reddit to see if any of the people there can help.
I think yours may have been wrapped so that it can be carried like a weapon, but that wouldn't be the original purpose. (Although I agree it makes a formidable weapon!).
I found a similar one on Yahoo with a different inscription.
E300 希少 古い鉄地如意棒/在銘あり/仏教美術/仏... - Yahoo!オークション
xvpbvx 商品詳細 ■商品■如意棒 ■状態■経年の汚れ、傷、擦れあります。 ■サイズ■長さ約29㎝ ※現在代引きサービスはしておりません。 ※落札金額に消費税10％+全国一律送料700円が加算されます。ご確認ください。 ※離島の方は送料の変更がある場合がございます。 支払
page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp
Edit: I think yours is Japanese.
- Thread starter
- #3
that was quick Majestic - thanks. Sure thought the 1st and maybe the 2nd moji was 川 and the moji 止 for stop I get but would not do for me to be a translator ! Lot easier seeing the "block" style kanji and makes sense. The meaning of scepter is one held by a ruler or sovereign but surely this would have not come from someone of that status ? wish this scepter could talk ! also have no clue as to age but would think 1900's or earlier ? I see you answer quite a few posts. May I ask your background ? I was stationed at Misawa 61-63 and Saitozaki (near Fukuoka) 66-68 and did study some Japanese but not nearly enough to be fluent- just everyday conversation. Have traveled as far North as Sapporo(1962 yukimatsuri-it was cold but we had charcoal stoves to warm us) and as far South as Kagoshima (1967 ) and always had a wonderful time ! If one can read some kanji and speak a little it is so easy to travel in Japan. Last time back was 2018 and at 80 am doubting I will ever return but tis a lovely country and I have many many memories ! Again, Majestic , thank you for the quick response and info concerning this scepter.It is a ceremonial scepter, called a "ryuyi" in Chinese. In Japanese its called a nyoi-bō.
The inscription is somewhat difficult.
以明鏡如止水
The characters in black are a 4-character idiom 明鏡止水 meaning clear and calm, free from distraction or evil influence. It's a phrase that evokes the calm and clear spirit of the Buddha. The other characters (in red) kind of break up the idiom, so I don't have high confidence that I've accurately got them right. You might post on Reddit under the "translation" sub-reddit to see if any of the people there can help.
I think yours may have been wrapped so that it can be carried like a weapon, but that wouldn't be the original purpose. (Although I agree it makes a formidable weapon!).
I found a similar one on Yahoo with a different inscription.
(I like the inscription on yours better).E300 希少 古い鉄地如意棒/在銘あり/仏教美術/仏... - Yahoo!オークション
xvpbvx 商品詳細 ■商品■如意棒 ■状態■経年の汚れ、傷、擦れあります。 ■サイズ■長さ約29㎝ ※現在代引きサービスはしておりません。 ※落札金額に消費税10％+全国一律送料700円が加算されます。ご確認ください。 ※離島の方は送料の変更がある場合がございます。 支払page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp
Edit: I think yours is Japanese.
- 21 May 2003
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Been there but if I tell you about it I'd have to kill you , LOL.
- 12 Oct 2013
- 4,071
- 5,023
Hello Laoto - I first came to Japan in the late 1980's as an English teacher. After that I joined various companies in sales and marketing. Now I've got one foot in the corporate world and one foot in translation of various exotic documents, mostly related to Japanese swords and sword-related items. Would love to earn a living from translation of Japanese esoterica, but there is not much money in it, and the number of people who can do it better than I can do it is...sobering.
Regarding your item, I say "ceremonial" because it is not part of any royal regalia or collection. Most likely it was part of a statue or some other display in a Buddhist temple. 20th century is probably right. The characters in red I have not much confidence in, so they could potentially change the nature of the inscription, but I'm pretty confident its related to Buddhism. The characters aren't a name or a date or anything like that.
Regarding your item, I say "ceremonial" because it is not part of any royal regalia or collection. Most likely it was part of a statue or some other display in a Buddhist temple. 20th century is probably right. The characters in red I have not much confidence in, so they could potentially change the nature of the inscription, but I'm pretty confident its related to Buddhism. The characters aren't a name or a date or anything like that.
- Thread starter
- #6
Dang, at first seeing the Hakata and Security pics I thought maybe you were a ditty-bopper or interpreter. May I ask what area you live in ? Yes, I know the kanji as you have written. Did go to C Dictionary MDGB and gave 明镜 (mingjing) as a metaphor for (sth beautiful, bright and flat – such as a lake – or sth that provides clarity and insight). Maybe: calmness brings clarity to one's thoughts ? Well, by my little bit of learning the language and some kanji I was able to amass a great collection of Samurai swords. Bought my 1st 2 at a local auction in 73' and had around 400 at my peak. My biggest mistake was selling a Kiyomaro (the very one listed in Fujishiro but with his other name of Masayuki). Found it in 1984 and sold 9 months later to Saito, Daisuke , a dealer out of Tokyo. But, never had to sell another sword . It probably went Tokubetsu Juyou. Did you attend the 1998 50nen kinen Tokenkai at Shinjuku at Keio Plaza Hotel ? I actually was sick of seeing swords as it was just too much. Then we "gaijins" were invited to Kurokawa's shop Sokendo to view 100 swords but I walked out after 1st 25 ! Too much of a good thing is just too much. Have sold my juyo's and few other papered blades and some not papered. Still have some fine blades that should be papered. Just too many and the mail these days makes me paranoid. Probably die with a bunch and just couple sisters who wouldn't know a juyo from a kazu-uchimono. Maybe my best sword now is Sa Yukihide and dated. Submitted to Juyo Shinsa but same shinsa were 2 of 80+cm and mine is 68 give or take so it failed. Was told to resubmit but I figure if it's juyo it should go regardless but I don't run the show. Really enjoy the NBTHK museum display the times I returned. Been to the DaiToken Ichi few times but just to look. You must be a collector too as surely if you appreciate the sword/koshirae workmanship you could not help from owning a few. If I ever would get back to the islands I'd buy ya a Asahi or whatever you imbibe in. Thanks for replying Majestic, O ki wo tsukete ne ! PS; had a few Shunga books and wish to heck I could have been able to read the storyline but NO way.
- 12 Oct 2013
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Ah, the Hakata and the Security pics are from Uncle Frank, our erstwhile moderator and fellow Japanophile. He was in Japan much earlier than I was. You might be contemporaries.
If you had to part with a Masayuki blade, I can imagine your sense of frustration. I didn't attend anything at the Keio Plaza, but I've attended probably 5 or 6 of the Daitoken Ichi. I have been to Kurokawa's shop many times, and he has a big exhibition in New Year's and in the Spring, and I used to visit those. I bought two of my swords from Sōkendō, but they are not great swords. One is OK, and the other is mediocre. I have another sword that is bargain basement level stuff. All in koshirae. I don't think anyone in my family is interested, so after I'm gone they will probably go to some dealer.
I'm not in Tōkyō anymore, sad to say. I'm in the US now, but may be back in Japan sometime in the near future.
If you had to part with a Masayuki blade, I can imagine your sense of frustration. I didn't attend anything at the Keio Plaza, but I've attended probably 5 or 6 of the Daitoken Ichi. I have been to Kurokawa's shop many times, and he has a big exhibition in New Year's and in the Spring, and I used to visit those. I bought two of my swords from Sōkendō, but they are not great swords. One is OK, and the other is mediocre. I have another sword that is bargain basement level stuff. All in koshirae. I don't think anyone in my family is interested, so after I'm gone they will probably go to some dealer.
I'm not in Tōkyō anymore, sad to say. I'm in the US now, but may be back in Japan sometime in the near future.
- 21 May 2003
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I worked HFDF down the road from the main base. I live in Portland , Maine and asked to be stationed at Winter Habor so naturally the Navy sent me to Japan. With only one year left in the Navy and my time at Hakata coming to an end , I put in my request to marry my Japanese girlfriend. A few days later I was on my way to Adak , LOL. Back then when the spent around 10 grand for your security clearance , they didn't want you marrying a foreign national . After almost 73 years on this earth , I still look at my 2 years in Japan as the best.
- Thread starter
- #9
ok, I was hesitant to send msg as I thought you were in Japan and maybe sleeping when I sent it. Figured you were a 24hr guy or insomniac ! Yes, Kurokawa is said to be the most prolific dealer in Japan - probably had /has more juyo blades and koshirae then anyone on earth. 1999 he came to Chicago Tokenkai and asked about buying the Sa Yukihide but I didn't want to sell and it had no shinsa paper at the time. Hope ya get back to Japan. I'd sure like to return but the world and my mental attitude just don't seem to jive at least for now.
Tom in Illinois
- Thread starter
- #10
So Uncle Frank , did you not marry your Japanese gal ? If memory serves me right I think the only gals one could marry and not lose the clearance was English and/or Scottish girls. When at Misawa a guy married a "mizushobai" gal from the local town and lost his clearance. He spent the days being a go-fer until he was assigned stateside. A fellow about 40 miles from me married a gal from Kashii who he met at the Airman's club. I never went but ever so often a bus load of J girls would come over to socialize with the guys. They now live in Fl. And look at the current situation ! TopSecret Docs here and there - No big deal right !? We would have been court-marshalled for sure if caught with any of this - not sure why we bother to classify anything or have laws as - no sense talking about it as it just makes me more depressed.
I put 8 yrs in the AF as a ditty-bop but after 15 months in Turkey I decided I'd had enough. Was at Saito from July 66 to Jan 69 and yes, Japan was the best times of my life too. And to think there were guys who seldom ever left the base - stayed in the barracks and played cards and drank. I was gone gone gone - nickname was 'zip". Had a girlfriend who lived in Hakozaki not far from the big Tori you see from Rt 3. But spent many a day/night in Mojiko. Can't talk about it here but I was spoiled rotten. Have visited Mojiko but all is changed. Can't bring back the past. Fuk is also so changed. I used to know Fuk like the back of my hand but now ! We had USAF 6918th reunions every couple years up till 2019. I didn't make the last which was in Jacksonville , Fl but 4 or 5 Japanese from Saito came over to visit as they wanted to learn more of what we were doing or our times at Hakata Base as their only hope of a economy is tourism. Itazuke was the main base but no where near Saito. All I remember about Itazuke was the flyboys from Nam would come up for R&R . Never really was on the base except when I was seeing someone off and when I departed. I had tears when leaving. Still have friends in Fuk and haved stayed with one who lives in a suburb (Westhills) (ウェストヒルズ)overlooking the city. Use to tell the bargirls my name was Rumpelstiltskin and they would give up trying to pronounce it !!! Pic is a standbar in Mojiko(2018) and Mamasan is gal in black , guy on the right w/white hair is a architect from Fuk and even though I had a railpass gave me a ride back to Fuk where we continued to imbibe. - once upon a time the mamasan was older than I but now they're 20 or more yrs younger !!! Even though I can afford it , it's a lot cheaper drinking in Mojiko than Fuk (Nakasu) !
- 21 May 2003
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I had only been there a few weeks when I ran into an Air Force guy dressed as a Japanese person. He told me if I wanted to enjoy my stay , first thing to do was learn as much Japanese as possible. I went to the bars outside of the base gates and bought drinks for the girls to teach me Japanese. After about 2 months there , the base became too overcrowded and they would pay you an extra $80 a month to live off base. I was hanging out at a popular bar in Fuk called the "Pit Inn" and met a young college drop out that wanted to learn better English and would help me with my Japanese. Turned out his folks were kicking him out for dropping out and he needed a place to live. I had no clue on how to rent a place , so he found us a nice place with 2 big rooms . kitchen and bathroom for about $60 a month. After that I only went to the base for work and kind of went native. The bar where he worked hired me as a bouncer and I had free drinks and food there after that. At that time mini skirts, the pill , and American music were all the rage and Japanese girls all seem to want a gaijin boyfriend. I noticed a lot of Japanese girls were hanging around the bar all night and many of them sleeping there. Turned out the were from small towns and came to the big city looking for a job and place to stay. Being the nice guy that I was , I let the beautiful ones sleep at my place to they found a job or returned home. Many of them were "very grateful" and took good care of me and housekeeping. After about 9 months there , my dream girl walked into the bar and there was just something about her that grabbed me. She was from a tiny town about 3 hours away by train. It took me over a month to get her to pay attention to me and she finally decided I did really care for her. As it turned out , her dad was some rich CEo and had died of cancer and left here about 1 million dollars US in his will. When I had time off (a lot of it being from being over staffed) , we traveled all over Kyushu together. Eventually she rented a big house for us to live. After I was shipped off to Adak we kept in touch and after 6 months I went back for a week to set up our marriage. The final plan was , I would return to Maine and get a job and place to live and send for her. In the end , it turned out she was too smart to live in Maine and the relationship faded away. In 2003 , I joined JREF with the hope of finding her or old friends (never did) , but found JREF so great I have stayed. I ended up helping my father run his automotive company and got way too busy to return to Japan. Now as 73 years approaches , returning to Japan seems out of the question. Our Navy CT's have reunions , but I always felt that the Navy and my fellow CT's had little in common with me and being sent to Adak still was a bitter memory. I hated Adak at the time I was sent there , but ended up as the yeoman to the new base Chaplain who was a great boss. When my 4 years was up , I refused to join the Navy reserves , got out and never looked back.
- Thread starter
- #12
Well, Unc , sorry u never got the gal. But nice of ya to accomodate all those homeless gals as they seeked out their fortunes. Buddy out in N.Carolina wanted me to try and find his old GF so I emailed Yasuko in Fuk and she actually put a ad in the Nishi Nihon Shimbun but we never rec'd a response. And maybe better u never go back as what I have told couple buddies who spent some time traveling with me. Things have changed so much but mainly ourselves as we think back to the "good ol days" . I have been going back since 1970's and have had a few nights on the town but nothing like the GI days but the "change" was gradual ! thru 1968 the $ at 360 Y and those 660ml beers 150-200Y was golden but my salary was around 85-125$/month 61-63 and 340$ when I got out in Jan 69 as E5 but always managed to put some $ aside. Don't know of the Pit Inn but couple of us always managed to have a good time at the Lindbergh Bar named after Charles Lindberg. Interior was kinda like a plane interior - kinda ! 1960's small standbar with Mamasan and her daughter Kazuko and couple other girls. Went there last time 2018 - still in Nakasu different bldg and Kazuko is now the mamasan (80 same as me) and her Mom was still alive at 90 something BUT 2 small beers and tsumami 8000Y or roughly 80$. didn't ***** and went back to have 1 beer and tsumami nite before I was heading back to Tokyo 6500Y or roughly 65$. Will never order a beer there unless someone else is buying !! I have been retired from the local FireDpt since 1995 and have the time to travel but this covid crap sure messed things up. I know J is easing on it's entry and just need the passport and proof of vac which I have. Don't know, just so much idiotic goings on but definitely want to go back before I croak. I keep in touch with a 60 yr old gal living near Tachikawa. She struggles at 60 with menial jobs at 1000Y /hr. Lives with her son in a public housing unit (公営団地)- not so good. Met her on a web site about 8 yrs ago "World Friends" but think it goes by a different name now. Actually met around 10 females mostly from Tokyo area but couple from Fuk and 1 from Oita City. Couple of them were a little weightier than was shown in their profile but met'em all and got along well and kinda interesting to meet but all were divorced and having not so great a lifestyle. Divorced woman in Japan is usually not a good thing but it's happening more often. What's difficult is summer time when those young ones are in those mini skirts and me at 70's now 80 admiring those long legs. Most woman wore long dresses or kimono up North early 60's and mother's were still nursing their infants in train stations and restaurants or wherever. 61-63 Misawa was a 1 horse town - dirt roads except for the paved main road. Nothing but about 6 GI bars and couple tailor shops, few little markets and J restaurants. Misawa was a hicktown. Went to Hirosaki for the cherry blossom festival April 62 and that's what got me to studying Japanese. Had a book "Japanese in 30 minutes" and I started memorizing sentences and would go downtown and walk in a shoe store or market and ask Kore wa nan desu ka . etc etc and u know the answer : nihongo ga jouzu desu ne ! NO please speak slowly ! but eventually I learned some and then at Saito I took 4 U of Maryland courses in J conversation and with the help of my gal picked up enough to fool'em. But even today I always start with Nihongo ga chuuto hanpa desu. figure that let's me off the hook if I make a mistake .
ok, fella, enough of my boring memories. Guess all we can do is live 1 day at a time and keep on keeping on.
tom w
ok, fella, enough of my boring memories. Guess all we can do is live 1 day at a time and keep on keeping on.
tom w
- 21 May 2003
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When I got out , my love for firearms sent me into the local police department. I took law enforcement tech for 2 years on the GI bill and 2 more of business mgt. I planed on being a Maine State Police officer when I finished college. The local PD was too quiet for me. Just a college was getting over , my dad's business started taking off and he needed someone to start a wholesale division. I said I'd do it just till he found someone else to run it and didn't escape for over 20 years after , LOL. When he sold out and retired I was too old for police work , so I went back to school for a bit and became a home care nurse. Did that till I blew out my back lifting and transferring patients and retired at 62. As it ended up , I married a girl from England and lived happily ever after , LOL. While in Japan , I took a college course that had 2 big text books and a couple reel to reel tapes. I never bothered with much Kanji because I rarely needed it. I learned later in life my spoken Japanese was considered gutter quality on a trip to Tokyo. People in Tokyo asked if a retarded fisherman taught me , LOL. After about 10 years back in Maine , I took a class in Japanese and my female instructor informed me half the words I used were impolite Japanese to say the least. Covid turned me into a home body right after it started. A high school buddy in better shape than me caught it and died in just a few weeks and that panicked me into staying home. I spend my time on the computer almost all day on Facebook and here on JREF to keep me busy. For some reason all the people I used to hang out with kicked the bucket before me , so no social life to speak of now days. I think the fact I quit smoking & drinking in 73 while working for the Chaplain expanded my lifespan , LOL. Glad you had the opportunity to go back to Japan. The cost and flight time from Maine was a major factor in me not trying to go back. When I was in Japan , I felt like a rich guy with Yen at 360 per US dollar. My E-4 pay was around $380 a month and on top of that the $80 they paid me to live off base made me feel rich. I often wonder if not teaching my Japanese girlfriend to speak any English was a major reason for her not coming to the US. Dumb on my part , but I didn't want her talking to any other gaijins , LOL. I must say , when you mentioned duty in Hakata , I thought you were Navy. I forgot we had Navy , Marines , Air Force , Army and even Canadians all working there. The HFDF building had a small room for each branch with closed doors so we didn't know what the other group were up to. The big main building on base had a posit that worked with about 12 ditty boppers acting as a relay out to the DF building and also to the the section that used equipment that would tell the ditty bopper that it was his man he was listening too. I worked that job a lot at the beginning of my time there and the last 6 months I was in charge of the Df section on the mid-watch. You had to be an E-6 to do it , but they were so short handed by then , I got to do it. Not long after I left , the whole base closed down. Later on the whole area became an amusement park. The old DF station was turned into some type of unmanned aircraft control unit for the big airport nearby .
- Thread starter
- #14
I hear ya fella, I've been to a lot of funerals too. Lots of firefighter buddies are gone and don't really have many close friends now. Kind of ironic that u mentioned not having much in common with your navy buddies for reunions. The reunions we had were put on by a few guys who were the ones who mostly stayed on base. And originally was only our shift D as in Dog and Snoopy was our emblem. But Danny from N.C. and Dezi from LA were the only guys I cared to see. Damn Dezi was of Mexican descent and when we went anywhere I spoke the language and the J person would look at him and answer back. He looked a lot more like a J than this ol guy. Had a guy who had been to Wakkanai, Misawa and Saito. One day he asked me to take him on a trip to Kumamoto - he was afraid of traveling by himself ! I never went with him anywhere and could not believe he never involved himself with the Japanese. He was the type to sit in a bar in Saito and pass his life away. I just wanted to learn the language so I was always going where no English was spoken. Kinda sad that so many guys had the chance to see the country and learn the culture or something but they just weren't motivated or whatever. My J girlfriend Setsuko died about 15 yrs ago but she raised her nephew. Her sister remarried and the new husband didn't want the boy around so he lived with Setsuko. He did visit his mother occasionally but he graduated from Sangyou Daigaku there in Fuk and went to Tokyo but I did find the old home and he had moved back when Setsuko passed. But he had a stroke and does not work but it was great seeing him after 20 some years. The area had changed so much and the house had been remodeled as I had gone to the area couple times before but figured all was lost. Tell ya another story; Setsuko had a sister who married a GI from Hartford , Ct. I met her around 67-68 and seemed like a great gal. She had never gotten pregnant and bought some snake oil while there in Fuk "inochi no haha" ? I think ! but it never worked for her. in the 70's I had rec'd a few letters from her and she seemed paranoid and very upset. I dismissed it as she had a good job with Hartford Ins. and let it go. Maybe around 77-78 I and a friend drove to Eldred's Auction on Cape Cod but along the way I wanted to look up Hiroko. We arrived at her house but the place was vacated. Asked the next door neighbor where Hiroko and husband were and she told me Hiroko had hung herself in the back yard ! He had treated her rather badly - didn't want her speaking J nor being involved with any J groups and his family was Catholic and never liked her from the getgo ! Even Setsuko had not thought that much of the situation but Hiroko was definitely miserable for much of her married life. I always thought "if" I did marry a J I would live in Japan as I thought her coming here might be difficult , especially in central Illinois as there are no Japanese and I kinda thought she would be lonely for some J friends. Chinese all over the place !!!
ok , u're maybe sleeping by now. I don't sleep much 3-4 hrs about it. Monday/Tuesdays play some pingpong. Unreal how the pros play. Started when I was 65 but should have started at 3 or so ! Am hoping Harimoto Tomokazu will get to #1 but the Chinese are so damn good. Tomokazu parents are Chinese but they moved to Sendai and believe they are now J citizens and have a boy and girl and both play well. Tomokazu is 4th now but at one time #3 in world rankings - his sister Miwa is #41 in women's ranking. Still young and might make it to #1 but has his/her work cut out for them.
o yasumi nasai .
- 21 May 2003
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I think part of being old is weird sleep hours. I sleep only 3 or 4 hours at the most and then catch a nap during the day. My bladder seems to be on an hourly schedule , LOL. Facebook is where all my friends and family reside now. I follow several sites there to do with Japan and have a couple friends there that live in Japan. I spend many hours a day on Facebook enjoying the posts there and harassing the anti-gun people for something to do. When I follow what's happening here in the US today , I guess I'm a right wing gun totting homophobic racist conservative according to the left wing group , LOL. I hope our posts here don't put people to sleep. I'm sure our life histories are probably not something they will make a movie of some day. I might be off line later , in the middle of a major nor'easter today with ice , snow and very high winds.
