How Far Are You Western-ized ?

MadamePapillon said:

And isn't it ironic that while the rest of the world is eating up that crap there are so many people here that choose instead to listen to lesser known indie bands, watch quality foreign movies and shun the name brands in favor of their own styles because the awareness that hollywood is feeding us crap is growing.

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IMHO, hollywood is only what you yourself make it out to be. A movie is just that , a "movie" nothing more nothing less.

Unless you start talking about Micheal Moore. This is one guy that loves reporting a one sided opinion. Eg, when someone is being interviewed...

Micheal moore: Sir what do you think of person A in reagrds to topic B?
Sir: Well , I think he is an absolute failure , but in regards to topic I will admit he did a great job.

What Micheal moore actually reports,

Micheal moore: Sir what do you think of person A in reagrds to topic B?
Sir: Well , I think he is an absolute failure ...

cut off tape here and there you have it, a total misconstrued display of the facts.

Anyway ,I liked what pachipro said too.

^Those roles are generally similar for the likes of CNN etc. Remember Bill O'Riliy telling the family member of 9/11 to shut up multipul times and pulling the plug on the interview when said individual questioned the USA's relationship with Osama. Lucky that was live or else wouldn't have made it onto TV.

Jiyuu said:

One thing I hear from some people visiting Japan, is that Western-ization. One transformation under effects of another always corrupts, I'd not like friends from Western countries take this offensive.
A solid and rich culture is maintained by a traditionalist society to a degree. I have always seen the Japanese people being hard-working, attached to their culture hence traditions very closely, highly regarding virtues like respect, effort and peace.
Since my homeland is being torn apart by imported Western way of life, brands and the irrelevant loyalty created to them, totally corrupting TV programs and shows, the process of cultural genocide by being exposed to things we never had before due to our cultural bakground; I'm concerned about the same for Japan.
How do you, especially native Japanese friends see about the situation? Is it how you were or is there a change in progress that is disturbing ?

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I found the OP's original post to be extremely insightful and wanted to reply to it directly; forgive me if my answer is repetitive or doesn't concretely touch upon anything anyone else has said thus far.

In my opinion, Japan's traditions and way of life are both threatened and enhanced by Western culture. If you're a purist or a nationalist, then yes just about every foreign product, Western or Chinese or otherwise, that touches Japanese soil is a threat. People are eating burgers instead of Soba, drinking Coke instead of Itoen Apple Tea, and so on. However the Japanese have a gift for doing things their own way as well. It's hard to put your finger on it and define it clearly but maybe I can use an example.

The increase in convenience foods for example and the prevalence of obesity and health related issues is counteracted by an explosion in domestically produced health remedies, digestive aids, supplements, and health clubs. All of these are uniquely Japanese; the health clubs have many of the same rules and regulations as traditional Japanese onsens for example. Japan's treatment of the automobile is no secret either; they continue to domestically produce many innovative vehicles and products for use in Japan to assist the Japanese by providing increasingly efficient and lower-emission formats of transportation. They are world leaders in hybrid technology and Toyota recently surpassed GM as the most profitable car company in the world. The infusion of Western culture does not in my opinion threaten Japanese society as a whole in the marketplace. Foreign products do not directly enhance the lives of the Japanese, aside from raw material and food they already have everything the West could possibly offer them and then some.

Furthermore it is still one of the most homogenous societies of any industrialized nation, certainly within the G8, and therefore has a fairly stable foundation void of civil conflict, religious extremism, and so on. Coupled with a nationalist movement that appears to be slowly gathering momentum (whether we see that as good or bad is at this point irrelevant) I don't see Japanese culture becoming fractured simply due to increased trade and product diversity.

Politically, I think it's difficult to compare the two countries. One dynamic you have to consider is that in Turkey there are different groups competing for political power. Some groups are supported domestically, others by, lets say, 'external' influences, and even left to their own devices it's not entirely clear whether the two could agree. Religion plays a huge role in this. At the root of it all is a game of chess that extends across the middle east and its vast oil resources. Therefore internal dynamics risk becoming the thumbscrews which are turned abroad in order to influence the flow of business and money. Japan's political system is not as fractured across religious lines and is less easily influenced. Its economic power and influence command a less collusive treatment by other nations.

the whole " westernization" phrase doesn't make sense.

Dictionary term:
-verb
to influence with ideas, customs, practices, etc., characteristic of the Occident or of the western U.S.
Also, especially British, west·ern·ise.

So, if they are talking about the western us..... Where are the cowboy hats in Japan? Where are the ranches and y'all saying y'all.

Los Angeles and San Francisco doesn't make up California. Have you ever been there? 3/4 of the state is farm land. Outside of LA to Sacramento on I-99; is nothing but FARMS. So, i see nothing wrong with influencing other countries to farm. Arizona has 2 major cities. The other 3/4 of the state? nothing but nature. Nevada.... well, Nevada lol. New Mexico. Another example. 3/4 of that state is controlled by Navajos. Whats on that 3/4? nothing.

My point is this "westernized" term needs to start referring to Hollywood and not the western us. Start calling it something that makes sense. Consumerism. Whatever. A lot of America is still VERY moderate, it's just the news would make you think else wise.

Oi Jiyuu, do you honestly think that my grand grand parents killed themselves just to set up a lie? If thats the case go find some therapist for your paranoia, its foolish to beat your chest and say half of the world is wrong and you are right, its fun how you admit that Turkey's political system is pretty much screwed, yet you say that the history that is enforced by that very government is white, pure and authentic. You know having a turkish flag as your avatar, and a quote from that Ataturk murderer means that your words can't be objective on this topic. And i'll tell you why, someone who denies the armenian genocide can only be subjective, and i'll go even further, blind.

Jiyuu said:

One thing I hear from some people visiting Japan, is that Western-ization. One transformation under effects of another always corrupts, I'd not like friends from Western countries take this offensive.
A solid and rich culture is maintained by a traditionalist society to a degree. I have always seen the Japanese people being hard-working, attached to their culture hence traditions very closely, highly regarding virtues like respect, effort and peace.
Since my homeland is being torn apart by imported Western way of life, brands and the irrelevant loyalty created to them, totally corrupting TV programs and shows, the process of cultural genocide by being exposed to things we never had before due to our cultural bakground; I'm concerned about the same for Japan.
How do you, especially native Japanese friends see about the situation? Is it how you were or is there a change in progress that is disturbing ?

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I think this subject interests me very much.... I think one of key characteristics of Japan must be .... its consistency. In other words, Japan remains unchanged.

The West and Japan 1

I am glad that this post is here for me to recap what I know about Japan's history. I'm sorry if this will take two reply entries.

First: I'd like to mention that "western" means a way of life that comes from Europe and North America.

Second: Let's recap what we know about Japan's history...

In the far past, Japan was agricultural, producing rice. The people depended on nature for their liveliness and their mobility, since the land is so mountainous.

In the 6th century, the Chan sect from China came to the island known as Japan today, but was originally a part of the great country including Korea, China, Indonesia, etc. The Chan sect took Nara.... war and such...

In the 12th century, Zen schools came out of Buddhism -- so assimilation of Buddhism with Shintoism.

1603-1868 - Edo Period - The dutch, England, Portugal, Spain... (so named THE WEST) wanted natural resources, cheap labour and places to sell their goods - the industrial revolution. Textiles, spices, rice and dyes were traded from Japan to the West, for modern technologies and goods, such as basic assembly lines for reproducing textiles and books, clothing, toys and foods.

During this period, the Tokugawa Family closed Japan to the West for approximately 250 years. Matthew Perry of the USA forceably insisted that Japan open contact and trade in the late 1800s.

1868-1912 - Meiji Period - The restoration of Japan after the fall of Tekugawa, a great military leader. So came the fall of the class structure of Military, farmer, artisan, merchant in order of falling rank. In this time, Parliament and the military took advice from the various Western leaders, and therefor caught up to the West.

The West and Japan 2

So with the Meiji period... came the true westernization of Japan. What was the dream? Peace, prosperity and wealth.

Have we all forgotten 1945? March 10 - Tokyo, April 1 - Hiroshima and Okinawa, August 6 - Hiroshima, August 9 - Nagasaki.... August 15 - Surrender, August 30 - Occupation of the USofA under General McArther for 7 years (originally only supposed to be 2 years)

What changed?

The Japanese constitution was rewritten with Witney and McArther
Women's rights were established
Labor Unions were created
The secret police was abolished
War and military force was renounced - Article 9

1952 - Peace treaty signed, USA left and the occupation ended.

That was only 56 years ago!!!

How can anyone say that Japan is not Westernized? (Disneyland anyone?)

Colonialism is at the roots of Western infiltration into other countries for the purpose of taking resources, technologies and changing a nation to suit their own purposes.

When national sovereignty is finally achieved, each state moves from colonial to autonomous, postcolonial status. Japan is no less a victim of colonialism by the West. It is a postcolonial country.

Please correct me if I am wrong and forgive me if I offend.

Thanks for your recap!

The Japanese constitution was rewritten with Witney and McArther - True, but as far as it's convenient to Japanese, no need to change so far.

Women's rights were established- True in terms of voting right, but Japanese housewives already had controling power over household finance. Women's voting rights were established in many European countries (incld. France) after WWII. So it was not simply Westernized.

Labor Unions were created- was re-established.

The secret police was abolished- Still exist as a new security police with less power.

War and military force was renounced - Article 9 - Convenient article for Japan, in fact we can avoid to get involved with WARs leb by US and Eurpoe anymore, while we can build up "defense power". Plus we can keep US military force as insurance. Either way it is not Westernized but only Japanese preference.

In the meanwhile,

1) West tried to introduce Christianity into Japan, but all failed, only seeable at department stores - X'mas tree and decoration.
2) There are tons of "English" schools in Japan e.g. NOVA?, but no improvement, I think.
3) Western capitalism tried to force Japan to change Japanese capitalism, but what changed?
4) Emperor Hirohito lived longer than F Roosevelt, Churchill, Starlin, Mao and Hitler.
US-made consititution says Emperor is "symbol" of Japan, but it was a symbol in the past without any actual political power. The system remain unchanged, I think.