How do you personally study Japanese?
- Thread starter トレバー
- Start date
- 27 Dec 2003
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- 2,103
Black Sun,
Learning the pitch accent pattern of Japanese is fairly easy. (You may be confusing Japanese with Chinese. The pitch accent pattern of Chinese is hopelessly difficult.) Japanese doesn't have tones, whereas Chinese does.
Start looking for a 'study buddy' in your area. Once you find one, lots of people on this forum have ideas on how to practice speaking Japanese with your partner.
Learning the pitch accent pattern of Japanese is fairly easy. (You may be confusing Japanese with Chinese. The pitch accent pattern of Chinese is hopelessly difficult.) Japanese doesn't have tones, whereas Chinese does.
Start looking for a 'study buddy' in your area. Once you find one, lots of people on this forum have ideas on how to practice speaking Japanese with your partner.
- 6 Mar 2003
- 9,318
- 9,446
"Learning" pitch accent is not important. If you converse regularly you should naturally pick it up. And if you don't who cares as long as you're understood.
- 5 May 2013
- 962
- 509
These days I study by reading what I feel like reading, watching what I feel like watching, playing what games I feel like playing, and looking things up when I need to. Also I've been a bit obsessed with writing out 四字熟語 with a brush pen lately to practice kanji. In the past I used Anki, Remembering the Kanji, Tae Kim's Guide, and several textbooks.
There is probably not going to be any 'making a career' out of Japanese. It may supplement a career if that career involves business in Japan, but AI translation will take over the vast majority of translation work, or rather, already is doing so. If you want to be involved in what is left, you will need to be capable of very specific technical writing, e.g. patent law, medical research studies, etc., where the demand for accuracy prohibits trusting an algorithm anytime soon.
Some standard advice below.
---
"What textbook should I use?"
"Genki" and "Minna no Nihongo" are the most popular book series because they are
pretty good. Because they are so popular, you can get the answer to just about
any line you have a question about by googling and it will already have been answered.
Genki is heavily preferred by native English speakers.
Minna no Nihongo has its "Translation and Grammatical Notes" volume translated
into a number of other languages, and is preferred by students who want
to learn in their native language or learn Japanese in Japanese as much as possible.
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar is a good companion to any textbook, or even the whole Basic/Intermediate/Advanced set.
"How can I learn Japanese for free?"
Tae Kim and Imabi are effectively textbook replacements, at least as far as providing grammar lessons. They lack the extent of dialogues and exercises in typical textbooks, so you will need to find additional practice elsewhere.
Erin's Challenge and NHK lessons teach lessons with audio. They are not IMO enough to learn from by themselves, but you should have some exposure to the spoken language.
Anki and Memrise both replace flashcards, and are general purpose. Koohii is a special-purpose flashcard site learning Kanji the RTK way.
Dictionaries
"What can I use for reading practice?"
- WEB版「エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。」サイト閉鎖と新サイトのご案内 | WEB版 エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。 (online audio-visual course, but has 'manga' version)
- https://tadoku.org/japanese/en/free-books-en/ (Graded Readers)
- https://www.japonin.com/free-learning-tools/teachers-blog.html (Essay style blogs from Japanese teachers)
- https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/80636366 (Crystal Hunters Manga "自然な日本語版")
- https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/ (Easier versions of the news, with links to the full version if you are up to the challenge)
- http://hukumusume.com/douwa/ (福娘童話集 - collected folk & fairy tales)
- https://www.aozora.gr.jp/ (青空文庫 - public domain works)
- https://syosetu.com/ (小説家になろう！ - Web Novel site for aspiring authors)
"What can I use for listening practice?"
- Easy Japanese 2015 - free lessons with audio drama | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPAN (NHK lessons - online audio-visual course)
- WEB版「エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。」サイト閉鎖と新サイトのご案内 | WEB版 エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。 (online audio-visual course, many skits)
- https://www.japonin.com/free-learning-tools/teachers-blog.html (Essay style blogs from Japanese teachers)
- https://jlptstories.com/ (JLPT Stories podcast)
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0ujXryUUwILURRKt9Eh7Nw (三本塾 : Lessons and conversations about Japanese, in Japanese)
- https://www.youtube.com/@nihongonomori2013 (日本語の森 : Japanese lessons in Japanese JLPT focused)
- http://nihongoconteppei.com/ (Easier Podcast from a Japanese teacher)
- http://teppeisensei.com/ (Harder Podcast from a Japanse teacher)
- http://hukumusume.com/douwa/ (福娘童話集 - collected folk & fairy tales, many have audio)
There is probably not going to be any 'making a career' out of Japanese. It may supplement a career if that career involves business in Japan, but AI translation will take over the vast majority of translation work, or rather, already is doing so. If you want to be involved in what is left, you will need to be capable of very specific technical writing, e.g. patent law, medical research studies, etc., where the demand for accuracy prohibits trusting an algorithm anytime soon.
Some standard advice below.
---
"What textbook should I use?"
"Genki" and "Minna no Nihongo" are the most popular book series because they are
pretty good. Because they are so popular, you can get the answer to just about
any line you have a question about by googling and it will already have been answered.
Genki is heavily preferred by native English speakers.
Minna no Nihongo has its "Translation and Grammatical Notes" volume translated
into a number of other languages, and is preferred by students who want
to learn in their native language or learn Japanese in Japanese as much as possible.
A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar is a good companion to any textbook, or even the whole Basic/Intermediate/Advanced set.
"How can I learn Japanese for free?"
Tae Kim and Imabi are effectively textbook replacements, at least as far as providing grammar lessons. They lack the extent of dialogues and exercises in typical textbooks, so you will need to find additional practice elsewhere.
- Learn Japanese – Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese (Tae Kim's grammar)
- IMABI 今日 ("Guided Japanese Mastery")
Erin's Challenge and NHK lessons teach lessons with audio. They are not IMO enough to learn from by themselves, but you should have some exposure to the spoken language.
- WEB版「エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。」サイト閉鎖と新サイトのご案内 | WEB版 エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。 (Erin's challenge - online audio-visual course, many skits)
- Easy Japanese 2015 - free lessons with audio drama | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPAN (NHK lessons - online audio-visual course)
Anki and Memrise both replace flashcards, and are general purpose. Koohii is a special-purpose flashcard site learning Kanji the RTK way.
- Anki - powerful, intelligent flashcards (SRS 'flashcard' program; look for 'core 10k' as the most popular Japanese vocab deck).
- https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/japanese
- Learn a language. Memrise is authentic, useful & personalised. (another SRS 'flashcard' app).
- Learn Japanese Language with Memrise
- Kanji Koohii (RTK style kanji only srs 'flashcard' web app)
Dictionaries
- Jisho.org: Japanese Dictionary (Online Japanese-English Dictionary; romaji input)
- 国語・英語・四字熟語のオンライン辞書 - goo辞書 (Online Japanese/J-E/E-J Dictionary )
- 辞典・百科事典の検索サービス - Weblio辞書 (Online Japanese/J-E/E-J Dictionary ; many example sentences )
- Takoboto | Japanese dictionary and Nihongo learning tool (Online Japanese-English dictionary with clear pitch-accent markings, also has an app version).
"What can I use for reading practice?"
- WEB版「エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。」サイト閉鎖と新サイトのご案内 | WEB版 エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。 (online audio-visual course, but has 'manga' version)
- https://tadoku.org/japanese/en/free-books-en/ (Graded Readers)
- https://www.japonin.com/free-learning-tools/teachers-blog.html (Essay style blogs from Japanese teachers)
- https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/80636366 (Crystal Hunters Manga "自然な日本語版")
- https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/ (Easier versions of the news, with links to the full version if you are up to the challenge)
- http://hukumusume.com/douwa/ (福娘童話集 - collected folk & fairy tales)
- https://www.aozora.gr.jp/ (青空文庫 - public domain works)
- https://syosetu.com/ (小説家になろう！ - Web Novel site for aspiring authors)
"What can I use for listening practice?"
- Easy Japanese 2015 - free lessons with audio drama | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPAN (NHK lessons - online audio-visual course)
- WEB版「エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。」サイト閉鎖と新サイトのご案内 | WEB版 エリンが挑戦！にほんごできます。 (online audio-visual course, many skits)
- https://www.japonin.com/free-learning-tools/teachers-blog.html (Essay style blogs from Japanese teachers)
- https://jlptstories.com/ (JLPT Stories podcast)
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0ujXryUUwILURRKt9Eh7Nw (三本塾 : Lessons and conversations about Japanese, in Japanese)
- https://www.youtube.com/@nihongonomori2013 (日本語の森 : Japanese lessons in Japanese JLPT focused)
- http://nihongoconteppei.com/ (Easier Podcast from a Japanese teacher)
- http://teppeisensei.com/ (Harder Podcast from a Japanse teacher)
- http://hukumusume.com/douwa/ (福娘童話集 - collected folk & fairy tales, many have audio)
- 8 Aug 2005
- 7,316
- 3,727
I'd say it depends on how you feel you learn best. Exposure and engagement (continued interest and motivation) are the key ingredients to success in language acquisition, in my opinion. Some people are good at keeping their momentum up and can self-study just with duolingo, flash card decks/anki, or going through textbooks on their own, but there's a certain point that the way to improve is to simply increase your exposure and spend as much time listening, thinking, and speaking in your target language. Absorption, cognition, and expression.
Personally, I built my foundation with college classes. We used Japan Times materials starting with the Genki series and later supplementing with some other material. I made friends with Japanese exchange students and other language learners, spent a lot of time with them, and also had Japan-related hobbies and interests which kept me engaged and motivated. I did start dating a Japanese woman who later became part of this friend group, and she was helpful but was also learning English so I think we both benefitted.
I had a few great tutors who were very encouraging and got me translating song lyrics which was surprisingly good study material (I started with the Ulfuls' "Banzai"). At some point I started reading novels in Japanese like ホームレス中学生、がばいおばあちゃん、五体不満足、and books by authors I liked like Isaka Kotaro like 死神の精度. I've got some harder books in my library but it's important to read something you're interested in that won't be a mental slog. Some people like to read books they've already read in their native tongue like Harry Potter, but I find that even with a good translation those books have too much of their own made-up terms and though you may be practicing your reading comprehension, you aren't learning anything really useful in the real world, so I prefer ones originally written in Japanese about Japanese characters. My friends were more into Japanese pop culture and anime, and introduced me to a few series I found enjoyable so I could have more listening practice... I still enjoy live action films more though (for the same reason, anime tends to have a lot of content and vocabulary specific to a made-up world). The key is to find the things you're interested in so you'll stay motivated in your studies.
I was considering applying for a study abroad program so I traveled to Japan with a friend and spent two months there, meeting our girlfriends' families, visiting my prospective school's campus, and traveling around. The trip was exciting, humbling, and educational. I realized I had come a long way but I had a LONG way to go, and there was so much more to learn not only about the language, but how it is used as part of a living culture. I got back home, applied for the program, and redoubled my efforts, especially. Right when I started to feel that I had built a decent basic grasp of the language, and finally started feeling comfortable holding a conversation (nearly three years into my efforts), I spent a year studying abroad in Japan and lived with a host family, which was an order of magnitude more beneficial than anything else, because my daily life was conducted almost exclusively in Japanese. My host sister spoke a little English but pretty much refused to use it with me for my own benefit, and my parents spoke only Japanese, which was a blessing. There's a lot I could say about the program itself, which was also excellent and gave me some awesome teachers, but as with all things, your mileage may vary. We had about 25 students in our specific program from various colleges around California (our school had many such exchange programs, so we met people from all around the world), and some people had better experiences than others. I felt like my study abroad experience was pretty much the gold standard, and the things I could complain about were my fault anyways.
Since I've gotten back (many, many years ago) I have found reason to return Japan for short stints on a fairly frequent basis, and I find new things to discover and explore every time I go. Unfortunately, I don't have much use for Japanese in my daily life unless I seek out opportunities to use it, and my own studies have slackened somewhat. Every time I go back, I am re-humbled and reinvigorated. So, find something you love, and do it in Japanese. Go there and see how things are, and try to use it as a source of motivation and not feel bad when you realize that you barely know anything about anything. I still feel that way.
If you have the resources and want to improve quickly (and it's a good fit for you), I would look into an intensive Japanese program with a good language school, either physically or online (with live classes, as self-study materials can be very hit or miss in my experience). Look into the Naganuma School for an established name that has started offering online courses, I did a little consulting for them the past year and I'm considering taking one of their classes myself.
Personally, I built my foundation with college classes. We used Japan Times materials starting with the Genki series and later supplementing with some other material. I made friends with Japanese exchange students and other language learners, spent a lot of time with them, and also had Japan-related hobbies and interests which kept me engaged and motivated. I did start dating a Japanese woman who later became part of this friend group, and she was helpful but was also learning English so I think we both benefitted.
I had a few great tutors who were very encouraging and got me translating song lyrics which was surprisingly good study material (I started with the Ulfuls' "Banzai"). At some point I started reading novels in Japanese like ホームレス中学生、がばいおばあちゃん、五体不満足、and books by authors I liked like Isaka Kotaro like 死神の精度. I've got some harder books in my library but it's important to read something you're interested in that won't be a mental slog. Some people like to read books they've already read in their native tongue like Harry Potter, but I find that even with a good translation those books have too much of their own made-up terms and though you may be practicing your reading comprehension, you aren't learning anything really useful in the real world, so I prefer ones originally written in Japanese about Japanese characters. My friends were more into Japanese pop culture and anime, and introduced me to a few series I found enjoyable so I could have more listening practice... I still enjoy live action films more though (for the same reason, anime tends to have a lot of content and vocabulary specific to a made-up world). The key is to find the things you're interested in so you'll stay motivated in your studies.
I was considering applying for a study abroad program so I traveled to Japan with a friend and spent two months there, meeting our girlfriends' families, visiting my prospective school's campus, and traveling around. The trip was exciting, humbling, and educational. I realized I had come a long way but I had a LONG way to go, and there was so much more to learn not only about the language, but how it is used as part of a living culture. I got back home, applied for the program, and redoubled my efforts, especially. Right when I started to feel that I had built a decent basic grasp of the language, and finally started feeling comfortable holding a conversation (nearly three years into my efforts), I spent a year studying abroad in Japan and lived with a host family, which was an order of magnitude more beneficial than anything else, because my daily life was conducted almost exclusively in Japanese. My host sister spoke a little English but pretty much refused to use it with me for my own benefit, and my parents spoke only Japanese, which was a blessing. There's a lot I could say about the program itself, which was also excellent and gave me some awesome teachers, but as with all things, your mileage may vary. We had about 25 students in our specific program from various colleges around California (our school had many such exchange programs, so we met people from all around the world), and some people had better experiences than others. I felt like my study abroad experience was pretty much the gold standard, and the things I could complain about were my fault anyways.
Since I've gotten back (many, many years ago) I have found reason to return Japan for short stints on a fairly frequent basis, and I find new things to discover and explore every time I go. Unfortunately, I don't have much use for Japanese in my daily life unless I seek out opportunities to use it, and my own studies have slackened somewhat. Every time I go back, I am re-humbled and reinvigorated. So, find something you love, and do it in Japanese. Go there and see how things are, and try to use it as a source of motivation and not feel bad when you realize that you barely know anything about anything. I still feel that way.
If you have the resources and want to improve quickly (and it's a good fit for you), I would look into an intensive Japanese program with a good language school, either physically or online (with live classes, as self-study materials can be very hit or miss in my experience). Look into the Naganuma School for an established name that has started offering online courses, I did a little consulting for them the past year and I'm considering taking one of their classes myself.
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Cantonese, yes. But while mandarin/putonghua still has four tones, the grammatical similarities to english (along with its simplicity) make it relatively easy.
- 12 Oct 2013
- 4,071
- 5,023
I second the idea that you shouldn't be obsessing over pitch accents at this stage in your studies. You know they exist, which is sufficient for now. And you have ears, so you can pick up on these things as you go along.
Right now you should be building vocabulary, exercising your knowledge of verbs and verb endings, and getting somewhat comfortable with Japanese particles. Pitch accent isn't a burden you need to be carrying now, just as understanding the nuances of keigo/kensongo isn't a burden you need to be picking up now either. It's enough to know such things exist, and that there will come a point where your Japanese skill is strong enough that you can shoulder these burdens without too much trouble.
Kudos to @SomeCallMeChris for providing such a massive amount of information.
