Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

[Mandylion]

了解

 

[kirei_na_me]

I know a few international couples who've had babies in Japan and they COULDN'T register any middle name at all. They, however, could do it at the embassy of the other parent, but it would only be recognised in that country.

Yeah, exactly. My children are only recognised by their family name and first name in Japan, when they were given middle names here in the U.S.

To be honest, I wish I would've made the choice early on to use their middle names instead, given that they would be living here instead of in Japan. But who knows? Their middle names are somewhat unique for this country, too, so it may have been just as difficult for them to go by the middle names.

 

[SuAsDu]

Originally posted by Maciamo
Most people in the States have mixed origins from all over the world (especially Europe). Myself, as a European, can claim ancestors in at least 6 countries, but it's not because my great-grand-mother was German that I would feel the need to have a German name.

Ok.. Maciamo.. So you are basically WHITE. I didn't want to take this to a racial or ethnic thread, and is still not my intention. So I don't know why you are being so critical of my wife being 4th generation. As for my wife being Japanese. She is of true japanese blood. Her lineage has been all japanese. So at this point, we can bascially say she is more Japanese than you.

This thread started simple enough. I wanted to know what the meaning of two names we were considering after looking into the meaning, which are "Kenzo" and "Hikaru". And IF there was any famous people who have those name. That was not from the perspective or a feeble attempt of trying to COPY someone's famous name, but to avoid accidnetally giving our son the name of someone that was INFAMOUS or had a very bad image. Wouldn't it be bad if we lived in Germany and named our kid Adolf?

Also.. isn't it popular in Japan to name their childern after the Japanese royal family? Are you saying that these people are feeble minded in the attempt to name their children after the royal family, like Akihito?

Also we were looking to the channel for insights on Japanese Names, and NOT to name our child for us. Naming our child is something we take very seriously. Hmm.. and you say a child's name should be original? Isn't giving our son a Japanese and Thai name being original, since he will be raised in the States?

As for the importance of a name, we do know that it is very important. That is WHY we are NOT goingto give our child a typical Anglo / US name like Steve or Jack.

So I don't know what high-and-mighty perch you are on, to start bashing my very simple thread and to say we are feeble minded. And to assume so many things.. its just very lame of you. This thread was intended to be fun and joyful. It is great to hear some stories of how other international couples name their children.

You have basically turned this thread into a "I'm a Japanese, and You Are Not. So you shouldn't Give your Kid a Japanese Name". Then to bring things like Japanese Law and Citizenship, and how pure our lineage is? Did I put anywhere that we wanted to move to Japan?

Maciamo.. you should really look at yourself, before criticizing other people. Its fine to have an opinion, because we all are entitled to them. But to Assume soo much.. its just Ignorance.

Before I close this reply, I just want to thank everyone that has actively participated in this thread in a positive manner. Maybe I shoudl start another thread, and call it "What does your japanese Name mean".

But if anyone has anything else to add to this thread, please go ahead.

 

[Gaki]

Ok.. Maciamo.. So you are basically WHITE. I didn't want to take this to a racial or ethnic thread, and is still not my intention. So I don't know why you are being so critical of my wife being 4th generation. As for my wife being Japanese. She is of true japanese blood. Her lineage has been all japanese. So at this point, we can bascially say she is more Japanese than you.

There is no such thing as a pure blood line, if u trace Japanese history back about 5000 yrs or so you would probably find that all Japanese are directly descended from China.
Therefore meaning that it is more likely the bloodline would not be all Japanese..if you wanna trace it even further back you would probably find all blood is descended from another race. If i remember correctly scientists believe the first human being was African.

 

[Maciamo]

Originally posted by SuAsDu
She is of true japanese blood. Her lineage has been all japanese. So at this point, we can bascially say she is more Japanese than you.

I never called myself Japanese. As Gaki said, pure blood doesn't mean anything. What I meant is that a nationality is more based on the language, culture and education than on blood. I am justly against assumption that someone should pretend to be Japanese or German or whatever on simple basis of blood. Your wife's family has been living for 4 generation in the States (about 100 years, isn't it ?), but you still insist on her pure lineage, name, etc. That's why I said, if you are so proud of your or her lineage why do you live in the States ? I've lived in 7 countries and every time tried to adapt myself to each culture, adapting the pronuncition or spelling of my name to each language so as to sound more native. That's why I don't see the point in showing different origin in choosing a Japanese or Thai name.

And IF there was any famous people who have those name. That was not from the perspective or a feeble attempt of trying to COPY someone's famous name, but to avoid accidnetally giving our son the name of someone that was INFAMOUS or had a very bad image. Wouldn't it be bad if we lived in Germany and named our kid Adolf?

That's still a famous person. Of course there will always be someone sharing the same first name, but just choosing a name because of a popular star at the moment is a bit short-sighted. Did you ever wonder how many children of the same generation might be named from this or that star (I am not talking about your choices here, because at least in the States few people will know Utada Hikaru).

Also.. isn't it popular in Japan to name their childern after the Japanese royal family? Are you saying that these people are feeble minded in the attempt to name their children after the royal family, like Akihito?

Yes, That's very common in Northern Europe and it's contemptible. I know many people like that.

Also we were looking to the channel for insights on Japanese Names, and NOT to name our child for us.
...Hmm.. and you say a child's name should be original? Isn't giving our son a Japanese and Thai name being original, since he will be raised in the States?

Of course, so why do you care so much about my opinon. It's only my opinion and I never said you should follow it. I was talking about naming a child in general or how I would think personally. I think you took it for yourself. I am not saying that you are feeble minded because you chose these names. It's just how I feel about people who name their children after royals, etc. But you havn't done it and choosing both a Thai AND Japanese name is much better than only a Japanese name. I was a bit angry than in International couples with a Japanese the children almost always got a Japanese name because it' easier to pronounce. I feel like Japanese are winning culturally on this and I don't like it. It's also related to the article I have posted about Japanese spouse adbucting children from their foreign spouse and Japan protecting this attitude.

As for the importance of a name, we do know that it is very important. That is WHY we are NOT goingto give our child a typical Anglo / US name like Steve or Jack.

Good point. I support you on this. There are tens of thousands of names used in English alone, so why should people always choose the same.

So I don't know what high-and-mighty perch you are on, to start bashing my very simple thread and to say we are feeble minded. And to assume so many things..

I think you didn't understand that I was not accusing you of anything. I just gave my opinion on how naming people (not only children, but also adults changing name).

You have basically turned this thread into a "I'm a Japanese, and You Are Not.

I am not Japanese and I don't care if you or somebody else is. I just wanted to say that Japanese people themselves don't consider 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Japanese as Japanese anymore. The example of citizenship was just to show how far this went in Japanese mind. To be Japanese, people should have not only blood, but also a full Japanese education in Japan. But only being born and raised in Japan isn't enough either (not like in the States), blood is also essential. That's why it's so hard to be accepted as a Japanese, even for 2nd gen. Japanese-American. Just explaining about this fact, not assuming you want to move to Japan. Until recently 2nd or 3rd gen. Italians and Germans born and raised abroad (e.g. Brazil) were still considered Italian or German by their country. That is just not the case of Japan.

 

[Kaleikuiha]

Originally posted by Gaki
If i remember correctly scientists believe the first human being was African.

Well I think personaly that the first "human/bipeddle being" was an Antartican

Anywho... You can have your child name anything you want and in any form of written language you want too. It's harder for my parents (mainly my father) to have to figure out how to write my name in the first place. Because Hawai'ian really is a spoken language and not a written one till the missionarys came. (my father asked my grandma Lani how to spell and say it ufufufu) But here in AMERICA your child WILL get picked on with a kewl name thats not of the norm of your nebourhood, school district, ect...

I could just bump this thread as a

I'm Hawai'ian and you're not!or I'm Geijin and you're not! ect ect...

but I won't do such a childish thing.

Hmmmm go get a Kanji dictionary and pick-out the kanji that's just right for your child. side note: eat more pizza

 

[SuAsDu]

Originally posted by Gaki
If i remember correctly scientists believe the first human being was African.

OMG!?!? Hope this thread isn't turning into a Nature vs. Nuture, or Evolution vs. Creation?

Actually that would be interesting to see how far off this thread can go.

So what is the Japanese Professional Baseball championship called? In the US its called the World Series, which I think is lame and very narrow sited, because no other country compete in it, other than a team or two in Canada.

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by SuAsDu
Hi,

I'm new to this forum, so please excuse me if I make a mistake.

My wife and I will be having our first born baby soon, and wanted to give our son a japanese name (I'm Thai, and She is Japanese).

We have come across two names, but have no idea what it means. Maybe someone can help.

Here is the first name: Kenzo - What does "zo" mean
Here is the second name: Hikaru - What does "ru" mean

Not having slogged my way through all the earlier posts, I'm still unclear as to whether you're intending to use kanji as part of his official American name (most likely cannot) -- in which case the meaning essentially becomes irrelevant. If you are planning one for kinship or familial purposes, though, I'd advise becoming intimately familiar with the various inscriptions and orthography yourself before trying an explanation out on the kid . "ﾅｽO" as in Takada Kenzo, for instance, seems to be one of the more popular "zou" kanji which I wasn't aware until recently could even take this reading. And doesn't Utada Hikaru use the katakana spelling for her first name?

 

[Elizabeth]

Re: Re: Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

Not having slogged my way through all the earlier posts, I'm still unclear as to whether you're intending to use kanji as part of his official American name (most likely cannot) -- in which case the meaning essentially becomes irrelevant. If you are planning one for kinship or familial purposes, though, I'd advise becoming intimately familiar with the various inscriptions and orthography yourself before trying an explanation out on the kid . "ﾅｽO" as in Takada Kenzo, for instance, seems to be one of the more popular "zou" kanji which I wasn't aware until recently could even take this reading. And doesn't Utada Hikaru take a katakana spelling for her first name?

 

[Kaleikuiha]

Originally posted by SuAsDu
OMG!?!? Actually that would be interesting to see how far off this thread can go.

I don't know howfar this can go on but if you want, I can make it go on till it's closed or it's deleated or something.

Well I tink that it would be neat to see a American baseball team Vs. a Japanese team... hummm maybe the Tokyo Dragons Vs. the LA Dogers I would go to see that. Oh don't tell me about the one Jery Lewis Movie where he goes to Japan and watches the Dogers Vs. the what-ever team. The Yankies Vs The Giantsa Japanese team.

Anywho... what is the Kanji that you'll be useing for the child's name(s)?

 

[SuAsDu]

Originally posted by Kaleikuiha

Well I tink that it would be neat to see a American baseball team Vs. a Japanese team... hummm maybe the Tokyo Dragons Vs. the LA Dogers I would go to see that. Oh don't tell me about the one Jery Lewis Movie where he goes to Japan and watches the Dogers Vs. the what-ever team. The Yankies Vs The Giantsa Japanese team.

Anywho... what is the Kanji that you'll be useing for the child's name(s)?

Kaleikuiha,

I agree.. it would be great to see a true world series w/ US vs Japan. I would defeintly pay to see it. The only time I see a US vs Japanese team is in the Little League World Series. I love watching those Japanese boys play baseball. They play so fundamentally sound.

I would have written the Kanji down for Kenzo, but I don't know what the keystrokes would be.

I do know waht Ken means.. but don't know what the "Zo" part means. I have seen one "zo" in Kanji that stands for 3rd son, but wanted ot know if there is any other meanings.

My wife and I have also came across a few more Japanes boy names from a baby book we got from J-Town (in LA) (but Kenzo is still not in it). I would list them, but don't want to get any slack from Maciamo.

 

[SuAsDu]

Re: Re: Re: Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Not having slogged my way through all the earlier posts, I'm still unclear as to whether you're intending to use kanji as part of his official American name (most likely cannot) -- in which case the meaning essentially becomes irrelevant. If you are planning one for kinship or familial purposes, though, I'd advise becoming intimately familiar with the various inscriptions and orthography yourself before trying an explanation out on the kid . "ﾅｽO" as in Takada Kenzo, for instance, seems to be one of the more popular "zou" kanji which I wasn't aware until recently could even take this reading. And doesn't Utada Hikaru take a katakana spelling for her first name?

Elizabeth,

Thank you so much in responding to my original post, and in a very constructive manner. This is pleasant to read.

As for Hikaru, We are leaning away from that name. Since it seems to be more of a female name.

Please forgive me if I get this incorrect. I am assuming "Kanji" referes to the Japanese characterature for the japanese name. In this case, you are correct. We will have to spell the japanese name in English for any document or official papers. But we would like to equate his name to Kanji, so that he will know the origin of his name. That is why we are looking for the "meaning". Beasue if our son ever ask us, "what does my name mean". I want to say, "Your Name Means this _____". Rather than, "I have no clue what your name means, just thought it sound good. It was either a Japanese Name, or call you Frankenstein". I'm just kidding on the Frankenstein part.

And on a side note.. Just looked at the number of replies.. this is the 3rd most popular thread in the group, next to the two sticky notes

 

[Elizabeth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

Originally posted by SuAsDu
But we would like to equate his name to Kanji, so that he will know the origin of his name. That is why we are looking for the "meaning". Beasue if our son ever ask us, "what does my name mean". I want to say, "Your Name Means this _____". Rather than, "I have no clue what your name means, just thought it sound good. It was either a Japanese Name, or call you Frankenstein". I'm just kidding on the Frankenstein part.

SuAsDu,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by equate, but the meaning, if any, of a Japanese name is pretty much tied up in the combination of characters chosen. And actually the meaning of "zo(u)" is probably easier to determine than ken, as I'd guess there are at least 10 "ken" kanjis used in personal first names and maybe 2 or 3 most common "zo"s. Which one did you already have in mind for ken?

 

[SuAsDu]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

Originally posted by Elizabeth
SuAsDu,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by equate, but the meaning, if any, of a Japanese name is pretty much tied up in the combination of characters chosen. And actually the meaning of "zo(u)" is probably easier to determine than ken, as I'd guess there are at least 10 "ken" kanjis used in personal first names and maybe 2 or 3 most common "zo"s. Which one did you already have in mind for ken?

Elizabeth,

Please Please.. tell me what the 2 or 3 commons meaning for "zo(u)" you have. As for "ken", I'll write some of the meaing we been looking at when I get home. If I recall, I only have possibley 4-5 meaning for "ken". If you have time, I would greatly appreciate to know if you would complete the missing "ken"

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Elizabeth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

Originally posted by SuAsDu
Elizabeth,

Please Please.. tell me what the 2 or 3 commons meaning for "zo(u)" you have. As for "ken", I'll write some of the meaing we been looking at when I get home. If I recall, I only have possibley 4-5 meaning for "ken". If you have time, I would greatly appreciate to know if you would complete the missing "ken"

Thanks again for all your help.

Unfortunately I can't claim any insider or specialized knowledge on this. All I have is what I've observed offhand and found searching baby name databases such as the one below. Namely that the three most standard "zo" kanji (likely the ones approved for Japanese registry, which shouldn't effect you) :

蔵 (storehouse, warehouse, repository)、三 (must be reserved for the third son?), 造 (make, produce, build)


phoenix-c.or.jp/~fujisaki/m_name/dic.cgi/dic.cgi?word2=ka4

 

[Maciamo]

SuAsDu, I was just wondering, as I took it for granted : did you know that Japanese names are usually written in Chinese character (kanji), and that each sound has a multitude of kanji, which each has a completely different meaning. Japanese have to analyse all kanji one by one even after they've decided for a name. Or they could do the opposite and choose a meaning first and find the right kanji (sometimes the same kanji has more than one reading, which doesn7t make it easier for other people to read).

I believe that you misunderstood my previous posts because you didn't know about kanji. That's why I said it was pointless having a name written in Roman characters (= "romaji", that is "the alphabet used in English"), because it would loose all the significance of the kanji and they cannot be used in the States. Noe feel free to choose any name you want, but why should you even bother about choosing a kanji. Japanese already find it difficult eventhough they've learnt them for more than 12 years at school, so if you persist in wanting to use kanji and want to make a good choice, you should ask a specialist or at least someone who knows kanji very well.

 

[SuAsDu]

Originally posted by Maciamo
SuAsDu, I was just wondering, as I took it for granted : did you know that Japanese names are usually written in Chinese character (kanji), and that each sound has a multitude of kanji, which each has a completely different meaning.

Maciamo... I did mentioned I was Thai, didn't I?

Originally posted by Maciamo
Japanese already find it difficult eventhough they've learnt them for more than 12 years at school, so if you persist in wanting to use kanji and want to make a good choice, you should ask a specialist or at least someone who knows kanji very well.

Since I am not familar w/ the Japanese language, that is why I posted my question in this forum. For Help in the Japanese Language. Am I wrong for doing that?

I have and still appreciate all the posters that have contributed positively to my questions, and have enlightened me on the intricacy fo the language.

 

[SuAsDu]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help w/ Translation of Name for upcoming Baby

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Unfortunately I can't claim any insider or specialized knowledge on this. All I have is what I've observed offhand and found searching baby name databases such as the one below. Namely that the three most standard "zo" kanji (likely the ones approved for Japanese registry, which shouldn't effect you) :

蔵 (storehouse, warehouse, repository)、三 (must be reserved for the third son?), 造 (make, produce, build)

Elizabeth,

You are definitely a great contributor to this thread. I really appreciate all your help. You have answered my original question precisely

You must be a Japanese instructor, to be so resourceful.

 

[Maciamo]

Originally posted by SuAsDu
Maciamo... I did mentioned I was Thai, didn't I?

Not sure now. Are you Thai, American or both ? Anyway, what's the point ? I am not Japanese either. Your wife is of Japanese descent and you felt attracted enough to Japan to give your child a Japanese name. So I expected you'd know Japanese use Chinese characters called kanji. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. :sorry:

Since I am not familar w/ the Japanese language, that is why I posted my question in this forum. For Help in the Japanese Language. Am I wrong for doing that?

Right, so just say so ! That's only now I realise that you want to know which kanji to choose for your child's name. By the way, before I post suggestions, does your computer read Japanese fonts ?

 

[SuAsDu]

Originally posted by Maciamo
Not sure now. Are you Thai, American or both ? Anyway, what's the point ? I am not Japanese either. Your wife is of Japanese descent and you felt attracted enough to Japan to give your child a Japanese name. So I expected you'd know Japanese use Chinese characters called kanji. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. :sorry:



Right, so just say so ! That's only now I realise that you want to know which kanji to choose for your child's name. By the way, before I post suggestions, does your computer read Japanese fonts ?

I apologize that I wasn't able to better articulate what I was trying to accomplish on my thread. It is just my lack of understanding the Japanese language. Well.. if I articulated my questino better, it wouldn't have made this thread so interesting and popular.

As for Japanese fonts, I do have them installed on my PC. I tend to frequent Japanese website to look at upcoming games, gizmo, and good stuff. And I can't stand seeing wingdings.

So go ahead w/ your suggestions.

 

[Maciamo]

My dictionnary list 146 kanji for "ken", 40 for "zou" and 49 for "zo". In Japan, people cannot use any kanji for names. There is an official list, but I don't have it (and as it's not for official use in Japan, I guess you can just choose any kanji you want).

You should find a kanji dictionary with translation and explanation of each kanji, but it will take time !

This free online dictionary enables you to find kanji by reading or by English meaning : WWWJDIC: Word Search

Hope it helps...

 

[neko_girl22]

nice to see you've finally made peace Maciamo.... hehe

 

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by Maciamo
My dictionnary list 146 kanji for "ken", 40 for "zou" and 49 for "zo". In Japan, people cannot use any kanji for names. There is an official list, but I don't have it (and as it's not for official use in Japan, I guess you can just choose any kanji you want).

It seems likely that the official jinmei list would correspond to IME output as well as online baby name lists (which also largely agree). Ending up at something like 250 added entries to the official jouyou set. It may seem like an overwhelming number of options, although without a Japanese last name at least you won't have the headache of falling in love with an unlucky stroke count.

 

[Maciamo]

And watch out not to choose the kanji that means "dog" and is also read "ken". Other common meaning of "ken" are : sword, building, experience, constitution, right, roll, prefecture, shoulder, trunk, cocoon, iron, heritage or research, from those I know which are easy to translate.

 

[SuAsDu]

Originally posted by Maciamo

This free online dictionary enables you to find kanji by reading or by English meaning : http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1Cy

Hope it helps...

Maciamo,

Wow.. this site is awesome!! Exactly what we wanted. It also provides w/ the proper way to write it also. Thanks again