Goodbye JREF

I've been a poster here for three years and have enjoyed the debates I have had with many posters.

Yesterday I made a post on this thread:

Examples of Japanese ignorance of world history

There was nothing offensive about the post and it was on-topic. I spent a good deal of time and thought crafting the post and looked forward to discussing it. When I came back today, my post and a lot of others had been deleted, apparently because they were embarassing to the person who started the thread.

When I asked for an explanation and apology for this, the only response I got was an infraction.

This will be my last post here. I will delete my account and never visit this site again. To those whose posts I have enjoyed reading and discussing various things with I say goodbye.

To the people who run this site I suggest you reign in the moderator in question.

Edited to note that I cannot figure out how to delete my account, so I would appreciate it if the moderators could do that for me.

Don't leave. Trust me...the person in question has made me feel like leaving before also.

I only stay because there must be someone here to act as a voice of reason...and to help keep him in check...otherwise what would the forum become?

Ow my God don't leave this is awful

For every bad thing there is a 100 good things

Don't leave becouse of one argument

I hope whomever coused this disagremant is mighty sorry

Man o man o man..

Please, do NOT leave!!

I, personally, hate that thread. It is very much denigrating toward Japanese people, its history and its education system. One can have a certain opinion about any of those, but for some reason I can see that particular thread as Japan-bashing and total flame bait only.

By considering "Japanese ignorance" (with a heavily negative connotation) as a stand-alone feature of the Japanese people, disregarding its isolationistic period for hundreds of years in the past, it can not be the basis of a fruitful discussion. Especially when (allegedly) posts are being deleted at free will and with no consideration to people's opinions that may or may not be entirely tangent to the issue discussed.

Sorry for posting this in this thread Senseiman, but I rather not set foot in the other thread again. And.. Don't go!!

Yea by the sounds of it i should keep away too

Thanks for the kind words.

I'd like to stay, this is a great community. But if there is someone like the person in question going around deleting and giving infractions to people for perfectly reasonable posts, there isnt much point in staying. Actually all I was looking for was an apology for deleting my perfectly reasonable post. Instead, I was given an infraction, which was clearly intended to give me the message "piss off". So I figure I'll humour him and do just that. No point in sticking around somewhere if you obviously aren't wanted by the person in charge.

Incidentally, take a look at the post I was given an infraction for:

https://jref.com/showthread.php?p=399506#post399506

As you can see, I was quite specifically given an infraction for not including racist content in my post. This is truly bizarre....just too much for me to take.

Like I said i don't know how to disable my account, but moderators by all means go ahead and put me out of my misery. So long as I'm still able to post the temptation to vent how majorly pissed off I am is just irresistable....

Really, what kind of weakness and self-justified subjectivity could have possibly given rise to circumstances, the results of which can be found below?!! Really, now!!


I intend to promote action by the community against such lack of thoughtfulness for the very intent and purpose behind this site, Japan Reference--an on-line community !!! Mars Man

senseiman said:

I've been a poster here for three years and have enjoyed the debates.
Yesterday I made a post on this thread:
Examples of Japanese ignorance of world history
There was nothing offensive about the post and it was on-topic. I spent a good deal of time and though crafting the post and looked forward to discussing it. When I came back today, my post and a lot of others had been deleted, apparently because they were embarassing to the person who started the thread.
When I asked for an explanation and apology for this, the only response I got was an infraction.
This will be my last post here. I will delete my account and never visit this site again. To those whose posts I have enjoyed reading and discussing various things with I say goodbye.
To the people who run this site I suggest you reign in the moderator in question.
Edited to note that I cannot figure out how to delete my account, so I would appreciate it if the moderators could do that for me.

Click to expand...

Senseiman, please stay.

This is such a shame ;_;

This is suposed to be a cumunity even if we argue

Please don't leave none of this was your fault it all seems so unfair

Seems like the whole thread was deleted, or hidden. In any case, I get an access denied message when I try to look at it.

OK could be wrong but thats kinda like a silent apology senseiman ^_^

See you don't have to leave ^_^

Can someone copy the content of that page here?
When I click the link, the page opened is :

hkBattousai, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Log Out Home

Click to expand...

I got an infraction from Maciamo today, too. He said that I insulted a team member or something like that.

I made an aside comment, but since I got an infraction, it made me wish that I had actually made an insult.

I think the actual post I made was "I wish I had the power to delete posts I don't like indiscrimately."

That thread, where (and I admit that I'm paraphrasing) you must give an example of how Japanese people are ignorant or your thread will be considered to be off-topic and deleted is the worst kind of thread that I can imagine. If you do not insult Japanese people you will be punished for posting. You can not debate whether Japanese people are ignorant. You can not point out the overwhelming bias in that OP. You can not do anything but insult the people that comprise the country that this entire forum is based on.

If a non team member had made that thread it would have been deleted promptly.

If that is the current state of Jref, when I eventually do get banned, I will leave Jref with no regrets.

There are a lot of nice people here, but lately Jref is no place to have an opinion.

I'll be frank: Maciamo must be reigned in. This is getting ridiculous. Thomas, please!

ow this all sounds very serious and worrying

Mikawa Ossan said:

I think the actual post I made was "I wish I had the power to delete posts I don't like indiscrimately."

Click to expand...

As I recall,you worded it " with impunity ".

if you leave the other person will win in a round about way....stay.

JimmySeal said:

Seems like the whole thread was deleted, or hidden. In any case, I get an access denied message when I try to look at it.

Click to expand...

Same here. So, I am not able to figure out WHAT EXACTLY happend there.
But anyway... Mikawa san and senseiman, please don't leave.

Yea don't leave pleeeeeeease *puppy dog eyes* come on stay

Goodness, have things become so bad here that the members who've been here for quite some time feel they have to leave?

Well you could get banned like I did... and then ressurected a mere shell of the old self...and now neutered, domesticated and on leash-- I behave like a good puppy. Only agreement and harmony is allowed. No dissenting opinions. Nothing that would raise a ripple in Belgium. Happy happy, joy. joy all is good and right.

Maciamo is the god-master. I grovel in awe at his feet. Rocklee is the demigod-dude! Senseiman and Mike Cash must learn their place in the world and not challenge the most excellent ones.

this is all very bad I don't wanna get banned but i also don't want there to be no freedom of speach

I'm sure theres a compamise right ^_^

You are free to conform!

Well, I made a copy of the thread because I figured it would get pulled down. For those who didn't see it, basically the OP started it by stating how ignorant Japanese people are because they don't know much about European history (errors in knowledge about Napoleon, Alexander the Great and the vikings were given as examples).

I can't say about what other people's deleted posts said, but my response was, in a perfectly reasonable manner, to point out that history in Japan is taught from an East asian perspective and therefore it was unfair to conclude that Japanese were ignorant just because they didn't know the basics of European history.

I then pointed out that European students don't learn much about topics like (for example) Confuscius, the Tang Dynasty and Hideyoshi Toyotomi. Knowledge about them would be considered a part of fundamental history to Japanese students, yet it would be highly unlikely that many European students would know anything about them. But from that fact you could not infer that Europeans were ignorant, as the OP attempted to do in regards the Japanese.

That post, which I put some thought into and even went to the trouble of looking up some facts in a Japanese history textbook to support, was summarily deleted by the OP for no apparent reason other than it didn't make Japanese people look stupid, which is apparently the only type of post that he considers appropriate.

The fact that my post wasn't treated with any respect made me upset. I don't mind being disagreed with or having people argue with me, but to have it just wiped off the face of the earth like that made my blood boil. And then when I (not unreasonably) demand an apology, they guy adds insult to injury by sending me an automated PM notifying me that I have been given an infraction.

I don't know how this forum manages to stay afloat with a person like that running things. Never mind the fact that he treats posters like garbage, this is supposed to be a forum for people interested in Japan, it shouldn't be run by someone who is obviously bigoted against the Japanese. And I don't use that term lightly, I've made many posts on here that have been highly critical of Japan. But the tone of that thread and the draconian rules enforced to stifle anything other than virulent anti-Japanese views cannot lead one to any conclusion but that the person running it is a bigot. To give an example of the type of thing he posted:

MACIAMO wrote: "On a side note : don't get me wrong, I am fairly tolerant toward their ignorance (amazed, speechless, but tolerant). I make fun of it, but they are forgiven because of their horrible education system."

C'mon Senseiman, you have to admit, that if you don't know European history from the European perspective, you are unforgivably and amazingly ignorant! If your worldview is not entirely Eurocentric, and you are an American, you are ignorant! And if you are religious, it is tantamount to admitting... that you are ignorant! When you accept European supperiority, you will find happiness and joy! Until then, your ignorance will merely be tolerated by the superior ones.

This is all so awful ;_;