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Flag With A Small Symbol

Boongie

Kouhai
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Hello and Greetings. The third flag that was made available has a small symbol on it. Appears not well stamped. My apologies if I don't have the pictures rotated properly for the correct orientation to make any translations easier.
Thank you.
 

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Boongie

Kouhai
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Hello: I have been told that some of the writing on this flag is Chinese poetry (Kanshi?), written in Kanbun. And that it may be period authentic. I may have posted the earlier pictures of this flag in the wrong position. I am re-posting here, with the pictures rotated 180 degrees, in case any feedback can be provided on translations and authenticity. Thank you for any help. As a side note, is there a good web site that would help me learn about Kanji and how to read it?
 

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Majestic

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The four lines on the right side of the flag are a poem ("Shōkai") by a 19th century figure from the Satsuma province called Shinohara Kunimoto.
It is a reference to fighting for the emperor with passion and sincerity. The original poem is at the site below

有雨有烟又有雲
四百餘州亂紛粉
腰閒秋水今方試
掃了妖邪謁國君

It is written in kanbun style.
The flag itself is presented to Tsutake Kenzo (都竹憲三) (various other readings are possible)
 

Boongie

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Thank you Majestic for confirming the poem in Kanbun. Does the writing of a poem from the 1870's in Kanbun style make the authenticity of this flag questionable?
And if I may ask, do any of the writings call into question this flag's authenticity?
Regards,
Boongie
 

Majestic

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In my opinion, the poem does nothing to enhance or detract the possibility of the flag being authentic. On the surface it seems slightly unusual to have such a large space on the flag dominated by a poem that most people are unable to decipher. It is like signing someone's yearbook with a line from Beowolf written in the original Saxon. Next to the poem is the near ubiquitous good luck in battle phrase: 祈武運長久. Its written with a line break in the middle, which is also slightly unusual. Normally you find this phrase written prominently, without a line break. But here too, its just unusual, and not really a clue as to its authenticity or inauthenticity. The names are normal names. The recipient's name (Tsutake, Tsuzuku) is a somewhat rare last name. If you have too many of these "slight rarities" popping up, one starts to question the authenticity, but that's about all I can say.

What lends authenticity to these kinds of flags are specific names of factories or schools or clubs that present the flags, or place names that tie a flag to a real location in Japan. And of course if the flag has a date on it, and has the other hallmarks of authenticity, one's confidence increases. This particular flag has none of those hallmarks, but is it a fabrication? Hard to say.
 

Majestic

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There is another phrase under the poem,
勝って帰れよ Katte kaereyo

Win and return (i.e. "Fight, win, and come back safely"), possibly written by the person whose name is next to that phrase, Matsunoki Ei-ichi. Again, a phrase that sounds plausible, but hard to say if its authentic. The "good luck in battle" phrase is written by Matsunoki Jiemon, who would probably be related to the above Matsunoki Ei-ichi.
 

Boongie

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In my opinion, the poem does nothing to enhance or detract the possibility of the flag being authentic. On the surface it seems slightly unusual to have such a large space on the flag dominated by a poem that most people are unable to decipher. It is like signing someone's yearbook with a line from Beowolf written in the original Saxon. Next to the poem is the near ubiquitous good luck in battle phrase: 祈武運長久. Its written with a line break in the middle, which is also slightly unusual. Normally you find this phrase written prominently, without a line break. But here too, its just unusual, and not really a clue as to its authenticity or inauthenticity. The names are normal names. The recipient's name (Tsutake, Tsuzuku) is a somewhat rare last name. If you have too many of these "slight rarities" popping up, one starts to question the authenticity, but that's about all I can say.

What lends authenticity to these kinds of flags are specific names of factories or schools or clubs that present the flags, or place names that tie a flag to a real location in Japan. And of course if the flag has a date on it, and has the other hallmarks of authenticity, one's confidence increases. This particular flag has none of those hallmarks, but is it a fabrication? Hard to say.
Thank you for your insights.
 

Boongie

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There is another phrase under the poem,
勝って帰れよ Katte kaereyo

Win and return (i.e. "Fight, win, and come back safely"), possibly written by the person whose name is next to that phrase, Matsunoki Ei-ichi. Again, a phrase that sounds plausible, but hard to say if its authentic. The "good luck in battle" phrase is written by Matsunoki Jiemon, who would probably be related to the above Matsunoki Ei-ichi.
My continued thanks to you. Does the order of the characters make sense? I understand that in some fake Yosegaki Hinomaru the characters are just randomly placed.
 
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mdchachi

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My continued thanks to you. Does the order of the characters make sense? I understand that in some fake Yosegaki Hinomaru the characters are just randomly placed.
As majestic said (or at least implied), there's nothing obviously fake about it. Characters are correctly written and doesn't look like it was made on an fake flag assembly line.
 

Boongie

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As majestic said (or at least implied), there's nothing obviously fake about it. Characters are correctly written and doesn't look like it was made on an fake flag assembly line.
Thank you. I note that Majestic thought that the Kanbun poem was unusual to find and that one of the slogans was also unusual in having a line break. But not necessarily fake.
 
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