Evidence of God's existence

[Hezam]

the ones that killed in name of christianity were not true christians. The first command the bible gives, is to love its next. We are even asked to love our enemies. The ones that persecuted and killed others in the name of christ, did not follow what christ asked them to do.... in Islam its a little different.
Sura [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

I have to say Thanks for remind me this aya.
Why did you cut it ? you should rather post it completed ! like this :

A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances. (1) Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him. (2)And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage - that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith. (3) (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous. (4) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (5) If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. (6)

a couple people converted to Islam and after they Betrayed Muslims by joining the enemy,so they should be punished,but prophet Mohammed gave them 4months to hide/run/or to go anywhere...after the 4 months passed then they punishmnt started.

And if you read the Aya number 4 you will realise how Muslims keep the promises.
Also,you said

"the ones that killed in name of christianity were not true christians. The first command the bible gives, is to love its next. We are even asked to love our enemies."

Then you mean European people were not true Christians !!
If they were a bunch of people it will be okay but almost All european attacked Muslims back then !!

 

[Haruspex]

The thread is titled 'Evidence of God's existence'.
Scripture is not persuasive.
You are throwing around scripture.
Not hard to guess the rest: you are engaged in pointless shite.
Besides, aren't you meant to be trying to prove God's existence?

 

[Hezam]

LOL you have the point...okay Eljah702 if you have questions about Christianity-Islam..ect please find another thread.
Derfel-san,May God guide you << wahahaha

 

[Eljah702]

I have to say Thanks for remind me this aya.
Why did you cut it ? you should rather post it completed ! like this :
A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances. (1) Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him. (2)And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage - that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith. (3) (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous. (4) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (5) If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. (6)
a couple people converted to Islam and after they Betrayed Muslims by joining the enemy,so they should be punished,but prophet Mohammed gave them 4months to hide/run/or to go anywhere...after the 4 months passed then they punishmnt started.
And if you read the Aya number 4 you will realise how Muslims keep the promises.


Also,you said Then you mean European people were not true Christians !!
If they were a bunch of people it will be okay but almost All european attacked Muslims back then !!

so how does in your opinion the citation of the whole text change the meaning of the cited passage ?

yes, these european people where not true christians.

 

[Haruspex]

so how does in your opinion the citation of the whole text change the meaning of the cited passage ?

yes, these european people where not true christians.

Bloody hell! Mycernius already pointed it out to you that that is a fallacy. Do you not read?

Now listen, yeah. We (people who are not Christian, whether atheists or adherents of other faiths), could, genuinely, not give a toss about who is and who is not a true follower of Christ. The reasons are:

-We don't believe in true followers. We don't recognise your religion as possessive of authority which would allow such distinction to be made.
-We don't care if atrocities are committed by true or non-true Christians. Fact remains fact, they have been committed, and in many cases it generally holds true that but for the existence of Christianity, they would not have been committed or not to the same degree.

If you want to participate in a dicussion on a secular forum, rid yourself of any assumptions, because there are heaps and heaps of unsupported premises you simply accept and insist on their truth, despite not having offered any truth. If you want to keep your premises and debate nevertheless, leave for some dodgy Christian boards where no foudation needs to be established for an argument. Let me reword what I have just said: you are talking ****.

 

[Regens Kuechl]

the difference is, that the bible doesn't tell anyone to threat people who leave the biblical faith. In Islam its a little different.

WRONG, Angelo! You either are a Liar or you do not know your bible at all!
READ THIS :

Deuteronome chapter 17 verse 2 to 7:
If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
anti-religion.net/leave_judaism.htm
AND THIS :
13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; (13:12-17) "If thou shalt hear ... men ... saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known ... Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."
If you hear of a city where another god is worshiped, then destroy everyone in the city (even the cattle) and burn it down. (Watch out Salt Lake!)
Martin Luther used these verses to justify burning the synagogues and homes of the Jews.
On the Jews and Their Lies (Part 11)
Religious Intolerance
13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers
skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/13.html

these were instructions given to israel in the old testament specifically. You won't find similar kind in the new testament.

WRONG AGAIN, Angelo! You really seem not to know the Holy Scripture at all!
HERE :
<< Luke 19:27 >>
(Jesus Christ commands this to his boot-licking apostles
"But as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king-bring them here and slaughter them in my presence!'"
bible.cc/luke/19-27.htm

 

[shinta]

""In life there is nothing to fear, just to understand""

Davide

 

[Haruspex]

""In life there is nothing to fear, just to understand""

Davide

No, this is not the 'Say nothing and sound smart' thread.

 

[Eljah702]

WRONG AGAIN, Angelo! You really seem not to know the Holy Scripture at all!
HERE :
<< Luke 19:27 >>
(Jesus Christ commands this to his boot-licking apostles
"But as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king-bring them here and slaughter them in my presence!'"
bible.cc/luke/19-27.htm

this is a parable, you don't know this, Regens ?

 

[Haruspex]

this is a parable, you don't know this, Regens ?

Way to ignore what I said. Spineless.

 

[Hezam]

No, this is not the 'Say nothing and sound smart' thread.

O hahaha good hunt.

 

[Regens Kuechl]

this is a parable, you don't know this, Regens ?

A catholic Regens knows his bible exellently, or else he would not be Regens in St. Poelten!

As a parable it is written down, true, but its purpose is to teach religious intolerance toward all non-followers of Christ.

Your Lord here discloses sinister plans for the Future which worked out to maim and torture humanity for decades.

And the new testament further reeks of very hateful and sinister text-passages.

 

[Mycernius]

this is a parable, you don't know this, Regens ?

Cognitive dissonance anyone?

 

[Danny om]

Football + Religion = Gooner

Well since this thread has turned into a free for all....

Football is very similar to religion. I have an irrational and all consuming passion for Arsenal FC. This began as a kid living in the local area, indoctrination was inevitable. I was taught the ways of the Arsenal and will always be Arsenal. As written in the Gooner scriptures; Berkamp 4:4:2: "I shalt smite thee who support any other team. And, woe those poor lost turnips who support another London team, you shall be damned and sodomised for ALL ETERNITY!! (especially Tottenham scum) ` cos yer crap and we`re the best team in the world, so there!".

The human condition to belong and to be part of the tribe is hard-wired into us. It`s (was) our best chance of survival. Couple that with our ability for abstract thought, we as a species were able to move into the realm of social evolution. Religion, I believe, is our need to be part of `something` that is greater than the sum. It does not necessarily have to be truth, but it offers the comfort having others around that have similar attributes. Just like my irrational `love` for the Arsenal.

Now, don`t think I`m letting you religo-folk off! Resiting some bollocks out of some book does`nt mean anything but a reiteration of dogma (closed thought process loop). For example, it is coming to light that empathy is a hard-wired attribute of social animals Empathy Partly Based On Genes, Mouse Study Shows . Is this the work of `god`? Written down so we don`t forget? Hardly! It is more profitable as a group to look out for each other and work together for the greater good.

Love, peace, an` chicken grease.

 

[Hezam]

Eljah702,can you read Quran and Sunna and compared them to Bible ?
it's not so hard to do that if you are confused witch one is right or at least better than the other one.
we dont need any of those blah blah in this forum,it's really idiocy to start another religious battle everywhere ! what's the point ? proof my/your belives ? to who ? maybe some people wants to tell the Japanese people that they are right or they have the truth..ect etc !! Japanese ppl have alot to care about and they became better because they threw away the "Religion" from their dictionary. or daily list.

Love,Peace & one capsule of Panadol

 

[RavenRockstar]

Oh, wow. This is still going? I figured it'd be beaten to death when I got back ^^'

 

[Kinsao]

But surely holy scriptures have nothing to do with proof of God's existence? as they are words... obviously you can claim they are words of God or inspired by God or whatever, but for that to be true you have to first prove that God exists....

 

[Eljah702]

But surely holy scriptures have nothing to do with proof of God's existence? as they are words... obviously you can claim they are words of God or inspired by God or whatever, but for that to be true you have to first prove that God exists....

Why should i have to prove it. Can you prove God does not exist ? The asking of proves makes no sense. The quest is what is the best explanation for our existence. And in my opinion, God is the best explanation. If you disagree, please present a better alternative, with better evidence, a better explanation.

 

[Half-n-Half]

Why should i have to prove it. Can you prove God does not exist ? The asking of proves makes no sense. The quest is what is the best explanation for our existence. And in my opinion, God is the best explanation. If you disagree, please present a better alternative, with better evidence, a better explanation.

There is no evidence that we can bring to which you cannot just simply say, "God did it." The universe, solar system, Earth, and life all formed through naturalistic means. "God did it." Can you show that God is the best explanation, or the reason behind all of these naturalistic events?

 

[Haruspex]

why should i have to prove it. Can you prove god does not exist ? The asking of proves makes no sense. The quest is what is the best explanation for our existence. And in my opinion, god is the best explanation. If you disagree, please present a better alternative, with better evidence, a better explanation.

The burden of ******* proof! Whenever you assert that something is a positive fact, your opponents have the upper hand, because otherwise we would have to accept all sorts of rubbish as fact simply because some lunatic dreamt it up.

 

[Eljah702]

The burden of ******* proof! Whenever you assert that something is a positive fact, your opponents have the upper hand, because otherwise we would have to accept all sorts of rubbish as fact simply because some lunatic dreamt it up.

i do just present EVIDENCE of the existence of God. Therefor, i do not have to prove anything.
I do not claim conclusively, God exists, but that evidence is overwhelming, that he exists. Therefore, all talking about proves is a waste of time.

 

[Mycernius]

i do just present EVIDENCE of the existence of God. Therefor, i do not have to prove anything.
I do not claim conclusively, God exists, but that evidence is overwhelming, that he exists. Therefore, all talking about proves is a waste of time.

The onus of gods existance is on you. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence, of which you have posted none. The arguments in the OP are not evidence of gods existance, they are just philosophical arguments which have been shot down. So far you have bought no evidence for gods existance whatsoever, just scripture and assertions. None of your assertions are overwelming for the existance of a god let alone your particular sky fairy. So we are still waiting for your overwelming evidence.

I could just as easily claim that the world was created by a giant space dolphin called Derek. How do I know? Well Derek told me in a dream. I'll soon write a book dicated to me by Derek thorugh an as-of-yet to be determined medium. I suspect when I have taken some holy grape juice (Merlot sounds good. Derek Likes merlot. White grape juice is the drink of the ungodly and was created by the anti-dolphin, a sealion, called Quentin).

Now disprove Derek.

 

[RavenRockstar]

Why should i have to prove it.

Because the title of this thread is Evidence of God's existance, that's why.

 

[Eljah702]

The onus of gods existance is on you. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence, of which you have posted none. The arguments in the OP are not evidence of gods existance, they are just philosophical arguments which have been shot down. So far you have bought no evidence for gods existance whatsoever, just scripture and assertions. None of your assertions are overwelming for the existance of a god let alone your particular sky fairy. So we are still waiting for your overwelming evidence.
I could just as easily claim that the world was created by a giant space dolphin called Derek. How do I know? Well Derek told me in a dream. I'll soon write a book dicated to me by Derek thorugh an as-of-yet to be determined medium. I suspect when I have taken some holy grape juice (Merlot sounds good. Derek Likes merlot. White grape juice is the drink of the ungodly and was created by the anti-dolphin, a sealion, called Quentin).
Now disprove Derek.

The claim, no god exists, is a much more extraordinary, than that God exists. If you deny God's existence, you need to show evidence that backs up your claim as well. Please show me, that our existence, and the existence of the universe, is better explained through anything else than God.

i have united overwhelmig evidence of God's existence at my forum :

//elshamah.heavenforum.com/does-god-exist-origin-of-god-metaphysical-reality-f10/arguments-for-the-existence-of-god-t5.htm

Because the title of this thread is Evidence of God's existance, that's why.

may you don't understand the subtile difference between evidence, and proof ?

 

[Haruspex]

The claim, no god exists, is a much more extraordinary, than that God exists. If you deny God's existence, you need to show evidence that backs up your claim as well. Please show me, that our existence, and the existence of the universe, is better explained through anything else than God.

i have united overwhelmig evidence of God's existence at my forum :

//elshamah.heavenforum.com/does-god-exist-origin-of-god-metaphysical-reality-f10/arguments-for-the-existence-of-god-t5.htm

Do you not have the mental capacity to understand that there is a pretty huge difference between asserting that something is a positive fact and denying that? When you assert that something is a positive fact, you must offer some form of evidence or proof. It must be ADEQUATE. Your arguments have all been discharged. It is not the nature of an argument to stand when challenged by a stronger counter-argument. I'm seriously driven to tear my skin off. You are bereft of reason. You're trying to 'enlighten' us, when you don't even understand basic concepts behind logical reasoning. Fail.

may you don't understand the subtile difference between evidence, and proof ?

Well, you have neither evidence nor proof of God's existence. Your antediluvian arguments failed and you cannot point to any scientifically proven instance of contact with God.