Ghost
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- 13 Dec 2003
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A topic for those who have no idea whats going on.....or if you want a good read.
Because of the importance of this issue to discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical to have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. What's the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by "God"?
Debates and disagreements between atheists and theists tend to center over a single issue: gods, or at least whether or not any gods can or do exist. The is the one thing which differentiates atheists from theists - it isn't necessarily much of an issue, but it can be magnified by a variety of other philosophical, social, and religious matters.
Because of the fundamental importance of this one issue to all general discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical that those who participate in such discussions have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. After all, what's the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by "God"?
When a theist claims that a god exists, one of the first questions atheists should ask is "what do you mean by 'god'?" Without understanding what the theist means, the atheist simply cannot evaluate the claim. By the same token, unless the theist is very clear about what he means, he cannot adequately explain and defend his beliefs.
Who Cares? Why Defining God is Important
It might seem to some that discussing the nature, attributes, and character of a supposed god doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless there is some reason to think that this god or even any gods exist in the first place. After all, isn't discussing whether or not a god is omnipotent or omniscient just a waste of time if we have no good reason to suppose it even exists?
God is Perfect & Worthy of Worship
Although there are a number of divine attributes which tend to receive a lot of attention, there is none quite so important for traditional believers as the general principle of absolute perfection and the more narrow implication that, therefore, God is worthy of our worship. These are, in many respects, the very reason why the existence of God is the subject of so much debate - if it weren't for them, there wouldn't be any religions centered around God and perhaps people wouldn't be divided.
God is a Person: Personal Relationships with God
For many people in Western religious traditions, the idea that God is a "person" is a necessary and fundamental part of their beliefs. Indeed, the very idea that God might not be a person is almost inconceivable for that would render them unable to adequately explain their religious history and their own religious experiences.
God & Gender: Is God Really Male?
In many religions throughout history, gods have been portrayed variously as male and female, often embodying important masculine and feminine attributes. The tradition of philosophical theism, however, has had some difficulty with the issue of gender because of the conflicts between religious beliefs and Greek philosophy.
God is Creator & Sustainer of Existence
A very common attribute of gods in religious traditions around the world is that of creation - our universe, our world, and indeed our very selves often owe their existence to creative acts of the gods. In the Western traditions of philosophical theism, the existence of everything is owed to a single creative act by a single perfect God.
God is Omnipotent
What does it mean to be all-powerful? At its most fundamental level, the concept of "omnipotence," also sometimes known as all-powerful, refers to God's ability to do absolutely anything God wants. This characteristic is usually treated as implied from God's characteristic as absolute creator. If God is capable of creating all of existence (whether ex nihilo or ex deo), it is felt that it would be nonsensical to then proceed to assert that there are things beyond God's abilities. Any being capable of creating existence itself must therefore be capable of anything at all - right?
God is Omnibenevolent
What does it mean to be all-loving? The concept of "omnibenevolent" stems from two basic ideas of God: that God is perfect and that God is morally good. Therefore, God must possess perfect goodness. Being perfectly good must entail being good in all ways at all times and towards all other beings. This, then, is what it means for God to be omnibenevolent - but there remain questions. First, what is the content of that goodness and second what is the relationship between that goodness and God?
God is Omniscient
What does it mean to be all-knowing? At its most fundamental level, the concept of "omniscience," also sometimes known as all-knowing, refers to God's ability to know absolutely everything. This characteristic is usually treated as a consequence of one of two ways in which God exists: either because God exists outside of time, or because God exists as part of time.
God is Provident & Sovereign
Although not usually given much attention in most debates, one critical attribute of God for many believers is the idea that God is "provident," which means that God acts in some fashion that requires God to become involved with humanity and causes the course of human history to be aligned with God's ultimate desires and purposes.
God is Free: Constraint vs. Freedom
One attribute which does not receive a lot of individual attention, but which is commonly assumed when discussing other attributes, is the idea that God is absolutely and perfectly free. What this means is that there is a total absence of any constraints or force or limitations on God whenever God acts - for God, freedom is absolute.
God is Immutable: Why can't God change?
Philosophical theism commonly ascribes to God the attribute of "immutable" - the idea that God cannot and does not change. Whatever God is like now is the way that God was for all of the past and the way God will be for all of the future. It doesn't matter what happens anywhere else, God always and inevitably remains the same.
God is Eternal: Timeless vs. Everlasting
God is commonly portrayed as being eternal; however, there is more than one way to understand the concept of "eternal." On the one hand, God may be thought of as "everlasting," which means that God has existed through all of time. On the other hand, God may be thought of as "timeless," which means that God exists outside of time, unconstrained by the process of cause and effect.
God is Transcendent & Immanent
What is God's relationship to Creation? On the face of it, the characteristics of transcendence and immanence appear to be in conflict. A transcendent God is one who is beyond perception, independent of the universe, and wholly "other" when compared to us. An immanent God, however, is one which exists within - within us, within the universe, etc. - and, hence, very much a part of our existence. But how can these qualities exist simultaneously?
God is Incorporeal: Mind without Body?
It is commonly taken for granted that, when talking about God, we are discussing a being who has no body and is not in any way constructed from matter or energy - both of which are features of the "created universe" rather than the "uncreated God." This attribute of incorporeality should not be taken for granted, however, because it has important implications for other divine characteristics.
God Exists: Necessary & Self-Existent
It might seem odd to list "existence" as an attribute of God, but that's not actually the point here. Of course believers think that their god exists - what is at issue is how God exists. According to philosophical theism, God exists in a very special and unique way: God's existence is necessary rather than contingent.
Well thats my report, would love to hear other peoples opinions on this......so post away.
Because of the importance of this issue to discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical to have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. What's the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by "God"?
Debates and disagreements between atheists and theists tend to center over a single issue: gods, or at least whether or not any gods can or do exist. The is the one thing which differentiates atheists from theists - it isn't necessarily much of an issue, but it can be magnified by a variety of other philosophical, social, and religious matters.
Because of the fundamental importance of this one issue to all general discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical that those who participate in such discussions have a better understanding of just what it is they are talking about and why. After all, what's the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean by "God"?
When a theist claims that a god exists, one of the first questions atheists should ask is "what do you mean by 'god'?" Without understanding what the theist means, the atheist simply cannot evaluate the claim. By the same token, unless the theist is very clear about what he means, he cannot adequately explain and defend his beliefs.
Who Cares? Why Defining God is Important
It might seem to some that discussing the nature, attributes, and character of a supposed god doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless there is some reason to think that this god or even any gods exist in the first place. After all, isn't discussing whether or not a god is omnipotent or omniscient just a waste of time if we have no good reason to suppose it even exists?
God is Perfect & Worthy of Worship
Although there are a number of divine attributes which tend to receive a lot of attention, there is none quite so important for traditional believers as the general principle of absolute perfection and the more narrow implication that, therefore, God is worthy of our worship. These are, in many respects, the very reason why the existence of God is the subject of so much debate - if it weren't for them, there wouldn't be any religions centered around God and perhaps people wouldn't be divided.
God is a Person: Personal Relationships with God
For many people in Western religious traditions, the idea that God is a "person" is a necessary and fundamental part of their beliefs. Indeed, the very idea that God might not be a person is almost inconceivable for that would render them unable to adequately explain their religious history and their own religious experiences.
God & Gender: Is God Really Male?
In many religions throughout history, gods have been portrayed variously as male and female, often embodying important masculine and feminine attributes. The tradition of philosophical theism, however, has had some difficulty with the issue of gender because of the conflicts between religious beliefs and Greek philosophy.
God is Creator & Sustainer of Existence
A very common attribute of gods in religious traditions around the world is that of creation - our universe, our world, and indeed our very selves often owe their existence to creative acts of the gods. In the Western traditions of philosophical theism, the existence of everything is owed to a single creative act by a single perfect God.
God is Omnipotent
What does it mean to be all-powerful? At its most fundamental level, the concept of "omnipotence," also sometimes known as all-powerful, refers to God's ability to do absolutely anything God wants. This characteristic is usually treated as implied from God's characteristic as absolute creator. If God is capable of creating all of existence (whether ex nihilo or ex deo), it is felt that it would be nonsensical to then proceed to assert that there are things beyond God's abilities. Any being capable of creating existence itself must therefore be capable of anything at all - right?
God is Omnibenevolent
What does it mean to be all-loving? The concept of "omnibenevolent" stems from two basic ideas of God: that God is perfect and that God is morally good. Therefore, God must possess perfect goodness. Being perfectly good must entail being good in all ways at all times and towards all other beings. This, then, is what it means for God to be omnibenevolent - but there remain questions. First, what is the content of that goodness and second what is the relationship between that goodness and God?
God is Omniscient
What does it mean to be all-knowing? At its most fundamental level, the concept of "omniscience," also sometimes known as all-knowing, refers to God's ability to know absolutely everything. This characteristic is usually treated as a consequence of one of two ways in which God exists: either because God exists outside of time, or because God exists as part of time.
God is Provident & Sovereign
Although not usually given much attention in most debates, one critical attribute of God for many believers is the idea that God is "provident," which means that God acts in some fashion that requires God to become involved with humanity and causes the course of human history to be aligned with God's ultimate desires and purposes.
God is Free: Constraint vs. Freedom
One attribute which does not receive a lot of individual attention, but which is commonly assumed when discussing other attributes, is the idea that God is absolutely and perfectly free. What this means is that there is a total absence of any constraints or force or limitations on God whenever God acts - for God, freedom is absolute.
God is Immutable: Why can't God change?
Philosophical theism commonly ascribes to God the attribute of "immutable" - the idea that God cannot and does not change. Whatever God is like now is the way that God was for all of the past and the way God will be for all of the future. It doesn't matter what happens anywhere else, God always and inevitably remains the same.
God is Eternal: Timeless vs. Everlasting
God is commonly portrayed as being eternal; however, there is more than one way to understand the concept of "eternal." On the one hand, God may be thought of as "everlasting," which means that God has existed through all of time. On the other hand, God may be thought of as "timeless," which means that God exists outside of time, unconstrained by the process of cause and effect.
God is Transcendent & Immanent
What is God's relationship to Creation? On the face of it, the characteristics of transcendence and immanence appear to be in conflict. A transcendent God is one who is beyond perception, independent of the universe, and wholly "other" when compared to us. An immanent God, however, is one which exists within - within us, within the universe, etc. - and, hence, very much a part of our existence. But how can these qualities exist simultaneously?
God is Incorporeal: Mind without Body?
It is commonly taken for granted that, when talking about God, we are discussing a being who has no body and is not in any way constructed from matter or energy - both of which are features of the "created universe" rather than the "uncreated God." This attribute of incorporeality should not be taken for granted, however, because it has important implications for other divine characteristics.
God Exists: Necessary & Self-Existent
It might seem odd to list "existence" as an attribute of God, but that's not actually the point here. Of course believers think that their god exists - what is at issue is how God exists. According to philosophical theism, God exists in a very special and unique way: God's existence is necessary rather than contingent.
Well thats my report, would love to hear other peoples opinions on this......so post away.
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