Evidence of God's existence

[Hezam]

If YOU believe then that's all you need, right? Why try to pull down other people's beliefs? Just let it alone.

Perfect answer.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
Al-Baqarah [2:256]

 

[Mycernius]

because the bible convinced me, that it is the revelation of God. There is plenty of reasons to come to that conclusion. And because of personal experience with the God of the bible.

Ever thought it might have more to do with the country you were born in and the general tendency for Brazil to be a majority catholic country (approx: 86% and the largest catholic country in the world)? That might be the same reason Hezam is a muslim (Yemen: approx 98/99%). It strikes me that the society you where bought up in had more to do with your choice of religion rather than serious research into them. Both countries are not known for their number of atheist/non-religious populations.

Edit: Stats from Adherents.com

 

[Hezam]

well,you might be right Mycernius,but can you explain why many people convert to Islam even some known Pastors,famous people like the Millionaire Mark Scheffer and the actor Will Smith and Chris Tucker & Michael Jackson....................etc many people like them ?
Why do they need to be Muslims ??
also,most of the french soccer team converted to Islam !! okashii desu ne !!
Indonesia,Malaysia,Philippines,Borma,poeple in Africa (by the way they call Africa the Muslim continent.........................?
i mean why does islam spread more than the other religions ?

 

[Half-n-Half]

well,you might be right Mycernius,but can you explain why many people convert to Islam even some known Pastors,famous people like the Millionaire Mark Scheffer and the actor Will Smith and Chris Tucker & Michael Jackson....................etc many people like them ?
Why do they need to be Muslims ??
also,most of the french soccer team converted to Islam !! okashii desu ne !!
Indonesia,Malaysia,Philippines,Borma,poeple in Africa (by the way they call Africa the Muslim continent.........................?
i mean why does islam spread more than the other religions ?

Same reason why people convert to any other religion or even atheism. I don't think you can necessarily say Islam spreads more than other religions, but if that were the case that doesn't mean it's right, just more appealing.

 

[Danny om]

God exists in the minds of the people who wish it. Its quite a simple mind control mechanism really. Destroy and limit free thought, then reprogram using a mixture of praising good behaviour ie; by saying something like `God/Jesus is great` or `Allah be praised` and swift (brutal is preferred) punishment for non-compliance . repeat process over a few centuries. Ferment with some form of hatred and bigotry and...hey presto! One religo-nut.
Obviously, the religo-nuts are going to say something like `How dare you mock my *insert deity here*!! You are lost, damned, cursed....blah, blah, blah..... YAWN.
These people and their superstitions are the reason we on the fast track to destruction. We will never be free if we don`t think free. Step out of the zone just for a second. Maybe do some objective research on the origins of religion, Maybe pick up some science books (we`ve gone through this before I`m sure).
But then, who really cares? Most people on this planet are thinking about where their next meal is coming from and other fundamental needs and the people with the power/money don`t give damn about any of them or us. Just try to be the best human being you can be and you wont need any of that mumbo-jumbo.
Peace, love an` chicken grease.:box:

 

[Eljah702]

well,you might be right Mycernius,but can you explain why many people convert to Islam even some known Pastors,famous people like the Millionaire Mark Scheffer and the actor Will Smith and Chris Tucker & Michael Jackson....................etc many people like them ?
Why do they need to be Muslims ??
also,most of the french soccer team converted to Islam !! okashii desu ne !!
Indonesia,Malaysia,Philippines,Borma,poeple in Africa (by the way they call Africa the Muslim continent.........................?
i mean why does islam spread more than the other religions ?

so you mean quantity is a sign for truth ? the more believe in something, the more it must be true ? the same way, " Christians " ( i don't think a true, born again Christian will ever leave his faith ) convert to Islam, people that believe in Islam do convert in Christianism. So that is not argument at all to determine who tells the truth. But you didn't answer my question. Why do you think God could not incarnate and become human ?

 

[Haruspex]

It is probably inappropriate of me to say this, but people without a firm grasp on the language of choice should not engage in proselytising, let alone join forums with the sole purpose of trying to win people over.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

I can't believe people are still using the ontological argument. It's been disputed for just about as long as it's been around, and has been totally discredited for well over 600 years. The Wikipedia article on it is made up mostly of the criticisms and objections:

Ontological argument - Wikipedia

I don't think you can necessarily say Islam spreads more than other religions, but if that were the case that doesn't mean it's right, just more appealing.

I also question the claim that Islam spreads more than other religions. It's probably true that it's the fastest growing, but that's more likely to be because of higher birth rates in predominantly Muslim countries, rather than because of conversions.

I did a search on "fastest growing" on Religious Tolerance, and there's definitely no consensus. It seems that Wicca has a fair claim to being the fastest growing religion in the US.

but can you explain why many people convert to Islam even some known Pastors,famous people like the Millionaire Mark Scheffer and the actor Will Smith and Chris Tucker & Michael Jackson....................etc many people like them ?
Why do they need to be Muslims ??

For the same reason so many celebrities convert to Scientology or Buddhism. I suspect it has a lot more to do with publicity seeking or personal insecurity than any revelation of truth.

 

[Hezam]

Why do you think God could not incarnate and become human ?

your question is,Why could not human become God?
the answer is "it's impossible"....
God who created human,why would he become human !!

please no offence,let's make it like if we are talking about something in the college...math for example lol..

I also question the claim that Islam spreads more than other religions. It's probably true that it's the fastest growing, but that's more likely to be because of higher birth rates in predominantly Muslim countries, rather than because of conversions.

maybe you are right ! but i mean people who convert to Islam is more than who convert to the other religions,this is what Islam haters said not something i heard from Shiekh ^^

 

[Mycernius]

maybe you are right ! but i mean people who convert to Islam is more than who convert to the other religions,this is what Islam haters said not something i heard from Shiekh ^^

Source?
As I have pointed out in the past leaving islam is not healthy to the person leaving, after apostasy is frowned upon with the threat of physical harm or even death over them. On RD.net we have a few ex-muslims who have left islam and live in the middle east. A majority of them hide it from thei families and friends and those who are more vocal do so in fear of their lives.
Consider the following sites:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
The Punishment for Apostasy from Islam
The case of Abdul Rahman, an Afghan Christian

This is not to say that only islam has such a method for apostasy. Christianity and other faiths have done it in the past, and in highly religious christian countries those that leave the faith have also had death threats made against them. It is an area of religion that those who are relgious don't mention, trying to give the impression that their faith is just one big happy family and no-one leaves it.

 

[Eljah702]

your question is,Why could not human become God?
the answer is "it's impossible"....

no, i asked the oposit. Why could God not become human ? He might not reveal all of himself, but a part of it.

God who created human,why would he become human !!

to save all humanity from eternal hell :

John 3:16 For this is the way36 God loved the world: He gave his one and only37 Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish38 but have eternal life.39 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,40 but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned.41 The one who does not believe has been condemned42 already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only43 Son of God.

 

[Eljah702]

This is not to say that only islam has such a method for apostasy. Christianity and other faiths have done it in the past, and in highly religious christian countries those that leave the faith have also had death threats made against them. It is an area of religion that those who are relgious don't mention, trying to give the impression that their faith is just one big happy family and no-one leaves it.

the difference is, that the bible doesn't tell anyone to threat people who leave the biblical faith. In Islam its a little different.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

the difference is, that the bible doesn't tell anyone to threat people who leave the biblical faith. In Islam its a little different.

The god of the Bible doesn't need man to do his dirty work, he makes his treats directly:

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

(Hebrews 10:26-27)

Yup, that's the all-forgiving, beneficent, merciful god of Christianity

 

[Hezam]

the difference is, that the bible doesn't tell anyone to threat people who leave the biblical faith. In Islam its a little different.

then what do you call the "Crusades" from 1096 - 1400 ? and the new Crusades witch started by Bush who leaded the 9th Crusade ?
Do you know why the european people fight against the Church ?
Do you know why Muslims fighting for Islam sake ?
those who call them selves athiests were victims of the church.
Do you know what happend for Muslims in Andalus ( Spain + Portugal ) ?

please see what Christians did for people in the name of ...?

 

[Tsuyoiko]

those who call them selves athiests were victims of the church.

I've come across atheists whose main motivation seems to bitterness against their upbringing in the church, so I guess you have a point in some cases, but certainly not in my case; my Christian upbringing was broadly positive, and many of the values I retain as an atheist were learnt at church.

I haven't turned away from Christianity to the extent that I feel victimised or bitter towards it. Becoming an atheist was a painful experience for me because I had to abandon beliefs that had given me comfort; it was much harder than anything I had experienced as a Christian. Intellectual honesty compelled me to find a way to come to terms with the fact that there's no need to believe in god. Once I accepted this I could look at Christianity and theism in general from a much more objective standpoint, which led me to the conviction that all the supernatural aspects and much of the morality are nonsensical to the point of being offensive.

I don't feel like a victim. I feel like someone arriving home at the end of an arduous journey.

atheism is not a conscious act of turning away from all gods. It is simply the final destination for those who think.

 

[Hezam]

It's true,i meant athiesim started or in other word appeared after the French Revolution against the Church.
I understand what you mean,it's really understandable.
^^

 

[Mycernius]

no, i asked the oposit. Why could God not become human ? He might not reveal all of himself, but a part of it.
to save all humanity from eternal hell :
John 3:16 For this is the way36 God loved the world: He gave his one and only37 Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish38 but have eternal life.39 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,40 but that the world should be saved through him. 3:18 The one who believes in him is not condemned.41 The one who does not believe has been condemned42 already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only43 Son of God.

the difference is, that the bible doesn't tell anyone to threat people who leave the biblical faith. In Islam its a little different.

Firstly, no preaching. Scripture is not evidence.
Secondly, way to go and contradict yourself in two consecutive posts.
Thirdly, I can play the quote game too. How about this little gem from
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 which calls for the burning of unbelievers and apostates.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."

It's true,i meant athiesim started or in other word appeared after the French Revolution against the Church.
I understand what you mean,it's really understandable.
^^

The word atheism is greek in origin and was originally directed to anyone not of the greek religion. So you would be an atheist to a christian and a christian would be an atheist to you. It was used by the ancient greeks.
Here is a better definition of its etemology:
atheist | Etymology, origin and meaning of atheist by etymonline

 

[Hezam]

Deuteronomy 13:13-19 which calls for the burning of unbelievers and apostates.

That's crazy ! so that was one reason behind the Crusades !

The word atheism is greek in origin and was originally directed to anyone not of the greek religion. So you would be an atheist to a christian and a christian would be an atheist to you. It was used by the ancient greeks.
Here is a better definition of its etemology:
atheist | Etymology, origin and meaning of atheist by etymonline

In Arabic language we have a word "Mulhid" means a person who doesnt belive in God existence.i think it's the same meaning !

 

[Eljah702]

then what do you call the "Crusades" from 1096 - 1400 ? and the new Crusades witch started by Bush who leaded the 9th Crusade ?
Do you know why the european people fight against the Church ?
Do you know why Muslims fighting for Islam sake ?
those who call them selves athiests were victims of the church.
Do you know what happend for Muslims in Andalus ( Spain + Portugal ) ?
please see what Christians did for people in the name of ...?

the ones that killed in name of christianity were not true christians. The first command the bible gives, is to love its next. We are even asked to love our enemies. The ones that persecuted and killed others in the name of christ, did not follow what christ asked them to do.... in Islam its a little different.

Sura [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

 

[Half-n-Half]

the ones that killed in name of christianity were not true christians. The first command the bible gives, is to love its next. We are even asked to love our enemies. The ones that persecuted and killed others in the name of christ, did not follow what christ asked them to do.... in Islam its a little different.
Sura [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

I believe the Bible has many passages about murder, also.

 

[Eljah702]

I believe the Bible has many passages about murder, also.

these were instructions given to israel in the old testament specifically. You won't find similar kind in the new testament.

 

[Tsuyoiko]

these were instructions given to israel in the old testament specifically. You won't find similar kind in the new testament.

If the Old Testament was superceded by the New, how come the Christian Bible is still sold as the double package?

 

[Eljah702]

If the Old Testament was superceded by the New, how come the Christian Bible is still sold as the double package?

.bible-knowledge.com/Old-testament-vs-New-testament.html

Some Christians mistakenly think we no longer have to obey any of the laws and commandments set out by God the Father in the Old Testament since we are now operating under a new covenant with Jesus. But this view is wrong. Jesus Himself says that He did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. Here is the verse. This is Jesus talking:
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17-18)

 

[Tsuyoiko]

these were instructions given to israel in the old testament specifically. You won't find similar kind in the new testament.

.bible-knowledge.com/Old-testament-vs-New-testament.html
Some Christians mistakenly think we no longer have to obey any of the laws and commandments set out by God the Father in the Old Testament since we are now operating under a new covenant with Jesus. But this view is wrong.

These two statements of yours are contradictory. Your first statement implies that Christians don't have to follow those instructions because they are in the OT. The second statement says that you still have to obey the laws and commandments of the OT. Surely you can see the contradiction here.

 

[Mycernius]

the ones that killed in name of christianity were not true christians. The first command the bible gives, is to love its next. We are even asked to love our enemies. The ones that persecuted and killed others in the name of christ, did not follow what christ asked them to do....

No true Scotsman fallacy. You're doing well with your collection of logical fallacies in this thread

in Islam its a little different.
Sura [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Such a damn shame you can't see the bad bits in the bible. Cherry picking by any chance?

these were instructions given to israel in the old testament specifically. You won't find similar kind in the new testament.

Someone hasn't read his bible very well then.
Death to infidels and homosexuals in Romans I:24-32
Jesus approves of slavery in Luke 12:47-48
Slavery in the NT Ephesians 6:5; 1 Timothy 6:1-2; 1 Peter 2:18