End of Twitter?

[Majestic]

The US is currently working itself into a frenzy over Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, and the repercussions of the buyout. Some of the repercussions are: charging $8/month for a "verified" blue check mark, possible implementation of subscription service, but most heavily discussed is Elon's own erratic behavior inside the company and inside the app itself. People are talking about ditching Twitter in favor or another, similar service. Most-often mentioned is Mastadon.

I've signed up for Mastadon, but its definitely a heavy compromise, and lacks Twitter's nearly seamless onboarding and discovery of topics of interest.

Anybody else here use Mastadon? Any accounts worth following?

 

[Grandpa Frank]

It amazes me how on Facebook , when something big happens , the memes get pumped out like crazy.

 

[mdchachi]

The US is currently working itself into a frenzy over Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, and the repercussions of the buyout. Some of the repercussions are: charging $8/month for a "verified" blue check mark, possible implementation of subscription service, but most heavily discussed is Elon's own erratic behavior inside the company and inside the app itself. People are talking about ditching Twitter in favor or another, similar service. Most-often mentioned is Mastadon.

I've signed up for Mastadon, but its definitely a heavy compromise, and lacks Twitter's nearly seamless onboarding and discovery of topics of interest.

Anybody else here use Mastadon? Any accounts worth following?

Although I use Twitter, life without it would not be a big hardship to me so I haven't seeked out alternatives yet. In the meantime, I lose respect for Elon Musk a little more every day as his juvenile, irresponsible tweets show up.

How is Mastadon monetized? Do ads show up? Maybe thomas could set a server up and ride the wave of this next big thing.

 

[thomas]

I have never used Twitter actively, but I enjoy reading up on events and news. As much as I respect Musk for what he did with SpaceX, it is unfortunate that a capricious clown like him acquired the platform.

Like the meme Frank posted, couldn't he have bought Facebook instead?

Isn't Mastodon just software to run your own social network? I'm not sure what's involved, but I'll have a look.

 

[thomas]

Here's a piece by Nikkei on Musk's acquisition of Twitter and the role Japanese banks played in it.

As Elon Musk makes dramatic changes to Twitter following his $44 billion acquisition, Japanese banks that cofinanced the deal find themselves with little choice but to go along for the ride. Seven banks backed the outspoken billionaire's leveraged buyout, which closed on Oct. 27, with $12.7 billion in lending. Morgan Stanley led the group at $3.4 billion, followed by Bank of America, Barclays and MUFG Bank -- Japan's top lender -- at $2.6 billion each. Smaller Japanese lender Mizuho Bank contributed $400 million. [...] The problem of assessing Musk's sometimes difficult relationship with compliance was discussed in April as Japanese banks pushed the lending proposal through internal decision-making processes at an unprecedented pace. At that time, there were some who argued they could be going even bigger, despite the risk.

Paywall alert:

As Elon Musk transforms Twitter, risk hits home for Japanese banks

'At the mercy of Musk's theatrics': MUFG and Mizuho face unclear exit path

asia.nikkei.com

 

[mdchachi]

Isn't Mastodon just software to run your own social network? I'm not sure what's involved, but I'll have a look.

Based on this article, it reminds me of USENET a bit. (As compared to a stand-alone BBS.) But each server can also decide who they communicate with. So you can decide not to associate with servers putting out NSFW content. So yes, I think it's your own social network but it's connected to others as well.

Here's a piece by Nikkei on Musk's acquisition of Twitter and the role Japanese banks played in it.

They must be desperate for a hit. With Elon Musk behind it, what could go wrong?

 

[Majestic]

Might be worth posting on it (and/or Twitter) occasionally just to drive traffic to JREF.

 

[nice gaijin]

I never thought twitter was worth exploring, I never liked the text message text limits, which lends itself to comedy and inane shower thoughts, but people started using it for everything. I am content to get a trickle of screenshot tweets on other platforms, and not wade into that swamp myself. But I recognize how important twitter has been to the zeitgeist... the absurdity of its influence aside.

The current state of social media is that in its growing pains it decided to capitalize on the market for user attention, and profit motive has ruined yet another technology with otherwise great potential.

Mastodon sounds like a great idea to create a decentralized network of networks, but I don't know much about it, nor do I feel like I have the energy to explore it much at this point. I miss some of the old days of IRC and the like, but I still feel like the best way to organize discussion on the internet is topically through forums like JREF. Catch-all sites always go rotten.

Elon made the same mistake that web 1.0 entrepreneurs made during the .com boom. He got so hung up on his own addiction to twitter he thought that he could do a better job at running it. A junkie that bought out the cartel. Except the real value of Twitter lies in its user base, which is not an intrinsic component of what he paid for. You have to keep your users happy or they'll leave. He overestimated how essential Twitter is because he conflated the platform itself with the function it serves in our society.

 

[johnnyG]

Hey, there's always truth social...

 

[Lothor]

Majestic - I'm on a forum for proofreaders and editors, and a lot of them are setting up accounts on Mastadon. Such people tend to be liberal and find nuance important (basic requirements of the job!) and a free-for-all and possibly highly confrontational service run by Elon Musk is something they really don't want to be part of.

 

[thomas]

Majestic - I'm on a forum for proofreaders and editors, and a lot of them are setting up accounts on Mastadon. Such people tend to be liberal and find nuance important (basic requirements of the job!) and a free-for-all and possibly highly confrontational service run by Elon Musk is something they really don't want to be part of.

I still remember IRC, which consisted of public and private chatrooms hosted on different servers. That was in the mid-90s. I still don't understand Mastodon: do you have to set it up on your server? Are these communities public? Can the discussions be indexed by search engines, or are these hermetically sealed groups?

(And isn't it Mastodon, based on the mammoth subspecies? )


Edit: never mind, I guess I'll start here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastodon_(software)

 

[Majestic]

Ah, Mastodon, that's right.

The whole server selection process is unusual. I mean, I have a vague understanding of this kind of federated network, but the user interface sucks. People say it really doesn't matter which server you sign into, yet the user will resist joining a server that is called something like Trepanning Enthusiasts of East Anglia. So I tried to find a slightly relevant server close to me, and all I could find was a server that apparently had zero active users. Not a big deal, it seems. Maybe it was just a display anomaly. Anyway, I sign up and wait for the confirmation email. And wait. And wait. I figure there must be some issue, because in 2022 one normally doesn't have to wait hours for a confirmation email. No wonder there are zero users on this server... its dead. So I try to register again. And once again wait for the confirmation email. Finally, in a completely predictable turn of events, I get a cascade of confirmation emails about 2 hours later from both of the servers I tried to register on. Minor hiccup. So I complete the login process, and then set up my profile. I then try to figure out how to discover accounts that might be of interest. I find a couple of accounts that I follow on Twitter, but here on Mastodon they haven't posted anything for months. So they feel defunct. Or, are they lookalike accounts that have been maliciously registered on Mastodon? Hard to say. Then, there's no "like" button - instead there is the "favorites" button, which, to me, feels like each time I click this button its going to send that post to a list of favorites, or otherwise archive it somewhere. Actually, it appears its almost the same as Twitter's "like" button, only less intrusive.

Still early days. But I hear they've signed up over 500k users in the past few days.

 

[thomas]

The concept is interesting and relatively easy to set up.

@Lothor, is there any advantage Mastodon has over regular forum software such as the one we use? I have explored several servers and "threads", but I'm still clueless. If it's about privacy, this is available in our software, too (Private Conversations, private fora).

 

[Lothor]

Thomas - I have no idea at all - I'm not even on Twitter! I'm just reporting that there is a strong movement of people who like a bit of nuance and prefer confrontation toward Mastodon.

 

[mdchachi]

The concept is interesting and relatively easy to set up.

@Lothor, is there any advantage Mastodon has over regular forum software such as the one we use? I have explored several servers and "threads", but I'm still clueless. If it's about privacy, this is available in our software, too (Private Conversations, private fora).

If I understand it correctly it's much less functional than a forum since it's twitter-like. So I guess the main difference is that while each server is local/private it allows you to follow/interact with users on other servers.

Speaking of Truth Social, it seems the reason they were able to get up and running relatively quickly is because they used Mastodon to get started.

 

[Majestic]

Me: (logging into Mastodon)
Mastodon: That's not your password.
Me: No problem, my password is saved in my password manager software, I'll just use that.
Mastodon: LOL, no that's not it either.
Me: Hmmm, maybe I have my email address wrong. I'll try another one.
Mastodon: Dude, are you high? Don't you even know your own login and password??
Me: Ahh, I know what's wrong, I have to use my "Mastodon" email to log on. My bad.
Mastodon: LMFAO! Look at this noob - can't even get his login/password right. Try again numbnutz.
Me: Jesus Christ why is this so difficult? OK, I'll give up and just click the "forgot password link".
Mastodon: OK my ignorant dude, we'll get back to you in three hours. Maybe. If not... well, sucks to be you.

 

[Majestic]

Still waiting on that password reset email, by the way. Must have sent the request around 8 hours ago.

 

[mdchachi]

How did you decide what server to register on?

 

[thomas]

How did you decide what server to register on?

That's something I'd like to know, too.

The delay in delivering transactional emails depends on which service provider they use and their "mail reputation". Setting up mail delivery can be pretty challenging.

 

[Majestic]

I chose the one closest to my hometown. I thought it would be a hub of people with like-minded interests, or at least people who have a shared background. I haven't used it enough to figure it all out yet. I just started posting yesterday, and today I can't figure out how to log in. Still waiting for the password reset email. If I don't get it today, I'll have to ditch that profile and set up a new one. I don't recall the very early days of Twitter, but people are commenting on how awkward it was to use Twitter at first. So I think Mastodon will get better. But the onboarding experience so far hasn't been great.

 

[johnnyG]

As a business move, like trump?

Elon Musk reportedly said Twitter could file for bankruptcy next year

Elon Musk reportedly told Twitter employees that the company could face bankruptcy next year.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Grandpa Frank]

 

[Petaris]

I miss some of the old days of IRC and the like, but I still feel like the best way to organize discussion on the internet is topically through forums like JREF. Catch-all sites always go rotten.

JREF IRC Channel inbound! LOL!

Edit: Actually there are a number of projects moving from IRC to Matrix which is also a de-centralized platform. Matrix.org

 

[Majestic]

After nearly 24 hours my "password reset" link never arrived. So again I went to the logon page and tried all possible permutations of all known email addresses and passwords, and still nothing. So again I pressed the "password reset" button, which I notice says will trigger a password reset link sent to my email in "a few minutes". Then I wait. And wait. And wait. And after about 10 minutes I realize no reset mail is ever going to come.

So now I am truly screwed. I cannot log in, and I have no recourse to access my account to delete it. Out of desperation I go back to the very first registration confirmation email I received a few days ago, and I click on the "confirm registration" button again. It immediately takes me to my Mastodon profile page. Wow. Success?

But now I'm petrified of doing anything with this profile because I know I can't log on again. Well, maybe I can continue to log on using the back-door of the "confirm account" button, but anyway there's no way I'm going to invest anymore time in a profile that won't let me log on through the login page. So I completely delete that account (I only had one "toot" anyway), and start afresh by creating a new account. Confusingly, when I delete my account, it asks for confirmation of my login credentials. So here I am in a catch-22. Mastodon won't accept my login credentials when I try to login to the account, but I can't delete my account unless I input the login credentials. Lacking any other option, I input the credentials that are stored in the password manager. And now, miraculously, they work. But I don't trust anything about this account, so I delete it completely.

Now I start the whole process over to create new account.

This time I'm super careful about login credentials, and everything is auto-stored in my password manager (well two different password managers, actually). This time I immediately get a confirmation email from Mastodon (feels like a win!).

I click on the profile setup link embedded in the email, and it takes me straight to my new profile setup screen. All good so far.

After setting up a new profile, I am still slightly nervous because of the last episode, so just to test it out I close the screen and then go back to Mastodon. I'm using Chrome, by the way. My login credentials weren't saved in the cache, so it displays the normal login screen, with no credential pre-filled. All good. Starting the login completely from scratch, but everything is fresh in my memory and my credentials are safely stored in my password managers.

I log in using my new credentials, and AGAIN IT TELLS ME MY LOGIN/PASSWORD ARE INCORRECT! So I press the "forgot password" link again, which again produces nothing.

So I go back to the "confirm account" email that I just used 10 minutes earlier, and click on the link in that email, and for some reason this works. I arrive back at my profile page. But none of this behavior is the expected outcome. The lack of validation of the password, and the non-functioning password reset buttons, and the "confirm account" button that seems to act like a secret free pass to my profile.

I can't figure out what I'm missing. I'm reluctant to continue using this, but I don't want to give up just yet. I'm going to try a different server (maybe I've got some zombie server that hasn't had any software updates, and therefore doesn't function quite as it should). But Jesus what a pain in the arse.

 

[Majestic]

This is the kind of clunky, user unfriendly interface that is typical of Mastodon.

Signing up on Mastodon. OK, the whole concept of a "server selection" is slightly funky unless you are used to playing games. Be that as it may, the natural inclination is to sign up "On This Server" which everyone assumes will be the "Mastodon" official server, and since that is where we aready are (presumably). Its like entering a restaurant and having the hostess say, "would you like to eat here at this restaurant, or would you prefer to go to a different restaurant?". But the question is already moot because we are shut out of the Mastodon server. "Creating an account on mastodon.social is not possible". OK - odd language, and if its not possible, why present it as a "once-upon-a-time it was possible" option at all? Why not just delete that whole section, and instead say "choose from one of the following servers".

If you couldn't already tell, I'm not impressed.
Still trying to keep an open mind (and awaiting my confirmation from the new server I'm hoping to join).