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Just curious as to why you think this Jimmy? Even though I have a similar point of veiw.I've come to believe that dictionaries are more of a crutch than a friend,
Well,
3. A person can read (and therefore learn/acquire new vocabulary) a lot faster if they're not stopping to check a dictionary every few seconds/minutes.
Patience is one of the most important virtues of a language learner, and patience to push forward when you're not quite sure how to express yourself is important. It is entirely possible to pick up the simplest of words and phrases just by talking and listening to people. I'll bet you anything that you've done it yourself.For the beginner trying to speak to natives (as was the way I learned), discourse cannot proceed if you don't know the meanings of very simple words. During this period of development, NOT being able to continue a conversation is far, far worse an outcome. An electronic dictionary is your very best friend in this case.
I can think of few words that would be easier to pick up from context than なお. Obviously a person won't figure it out on the first encounter, but they could very easily after hearing it three or four times.Believe me, you're not going to understand the meaning of 「なお」 in conversation by just hearing it.
People act like there's a desperate need to understand everything everybody says. Not only is this unreasonable, it's unnecessary. A creative partner will find ways to explain a word simply so that you can understand. Gestures and illustrations are very useful too. If that doesn't work out, as long as you are just having a friendly chat, and not conducting business or registering for a driver's license, the information is probably not that crucial anyway.Lately I had a problem when speaking to a Japanese friend when she came to me. Everything was damn right until she said something I didn't understand. She then tried to explain me the word in Japanese (like the kokugojiten would do it) and when I still didn't understand, we had to use dictionary.
E-E and J-J dictionaries are problematic to learners in their own ways, but my point is completely valid in regard to the use of E-J or J-E dictionaries (which you are saying people should use, correct?)Your 2nd point isn't valid either. I don't see any problem, really. You are talking about advanced learners and they have (english-english, japanese-japanese) their own dictionaries.
The context of the sentence hints at the meanings of the words you don't know. This will not usually enable you to guess a word's meaning on the first encounter, but you can guess at what the meaning might be, and narrow it down through subsequent encounters with the word.if I don't check the dictionary how can I be sure what's the meaning of the sentence?
If it's just one word in Polish for two things in English, then I'd better get used to thinking about the concept as just one word right away, and not remember it in terms of two English words. But if someone is holding something in front of you and saying "this OOO is broken," then you couldn't possibly need a dictionary to figure out what a OOO is. It's right in front of you! And not only is the information conveyed successfully, you also get to find out what a OOO is without ever touching a dictionary.for example, you say that this xx is broken. sure, great, you roughly know what does it mean (something is broken), but if you don't know Polish words good, you are not sure if the xx stands for a zipper or key lock (both have the same word in Polish).
@Kama - I am having a lot of trouble understanding your post. Ironically, this serves as proof that a dictionary will not enable you to express yourself clearly if you don't know how to use the words naturally. I will try my best to respond.
People act like there's a desperate need to understand everything everybody says. Not only is this unreasonable, it's unnecessary. A creative partner will find ways to explain a word simply so that you can understand. Gestures and illustrations are very useful too.
E-E and J-J dictionaries are problematic to learners in their own ways, but my point is completely valid in regard to the use of E-J or J-E dictionaries (which you are saying people should use, correct?)
The context of the sentence hints at the meanings of the words you don't know. This will not usually enable you to guess a word's meaning on the first encounter, but you can guess at what the meaning might be, and narrow it down through subsequent encounters with the word.
But that's too long! And you can't be always learning words like this. You can even forget the first encounter of the word. And what, guessing from the beginning?
If it's just one word in Polish for two things in English, then I'd better get used to thinking about the concept as just one word right away, and not remember it in terms of two English words. But if someone is holding something in front of you and saying "this OOO is broken," then you couldn't possibly need a dictionary to figure out what a OOO is. It's right in front of you! And not only is the information conveyed successfully, you also get to find out what a OOO is without ever touching a dictionary.
but they don't need to be in front of you nor talk about things around you. What about telephone conversation? ah, great, you know that ooo means zipper. and then you hear I saw really huge ooo. It looked so great. We can see it together next weekend. what, you think. Sorry, you didn't check the dictionary, you don't even know ooo means castle. That's damn ineffective.
You want to learn every meaning of the word by context?
These are valid points, but the justifications against using a dictionary are still great enough that I think it's worth remaining patient through these small (and temporary) communication gaps.Illustrations, especially when you are outdoor sightseeing the city, wow, great idea. And how you make with gesture "constitution"?
For example, you wanted to say somebody blushed. So you say his face turned red because of embarassment. Let's say I don't know the embarassment word. You can turn red from few different reasons. It may be embarassment or anger for example. Or something really different.
A beginner should be reading and watching movies/TV shows to learn language, so presumably the number of words they don't know will dwindle. If their only source of new knowledge is the people they talk to, they are a leech, and I won't speak to a person like that very long.You can't always say that you can always point or use gestures. Come on, it's really pointless, how long will you have to make gestures of every damn word to the beginner?
I can, and I do. That is my only means of learning new words in Japanese (and it's going swimmingly), and any language I learn in the future will be through this method.And you can't be always learning words like this. You can even forget the first encounter of the word. And what, guessing from the beginning?
I'd ask them what a OOO is, and in all likelihood they'd be able to explain satisfactorily. If not, well, whatever it is, it must be cool, so I'd say yes to the invitationand then you hear I saw really huge ooo. It looked so great. We can see it together next weekend. what, you think. Sorry, you didn't check the dictionary, you don't even know ooo means castle.
A beginner should be reading and watching movies/TV shows to learn language, so presumably the number of words they don't know will dwindle. If their only source of new knowledge is the people they talk to, they are a leech, and I won't speak to a person like that very long.
I can, and I do. That is my only means of learning new words in Japanese (and it's going swimmingly), and any language I learn in the future will be through this method.
I'd ask them what a OOO is, and in all likelihood they'd be able to explain satisfactorily. If not, well, whatever it is, it must be cool, so I'd say yes to the invitation
A beginner should be reading and watching movies/TV shows to learn language, so presumably the number of words they don't know will dwindle. If their only source of new knowledge is the people they talk to, they are a leech, and I won't speak to a person like that very long.
today was just looking around and was amazed with everything and I found some really cheap ones.
like this one here http://casio.jp/exword/products/XD-SW6500/ (i hope that is the one) but the price was not like this one on this site ☝ (but half of it)
anyway... if anyone understand me
my questions would be:
- is electrical dictionary good for student like me (eventually, I will continue my real studies here (architecture));
-even i think it could be quite hard to work with it now, I should be useful, right (eventually);
- what should i be careful about when I really decide to buy one?
still, some thing often confuse me - I do not know differences between dictionaries, but price. I see sometime, some have different English-English dictionary (Cambridge, oxford or Longman), but still, is that the only difference... and prices vary a lot, too...