Electric cars?

[Sarapva]

Are electric cars becoming more common in Japan? I've just seen the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" about how the auto industry and government stifled this technology in the U.S. It was really sad, but there do seem to be some electric cars around and people converting gas engines to electric.

 

[SushiShin]

Electric? cool! i hope to have more information? maybe in the future all cars will be magnetized and we all have a boardcomputer who is connected to one big network (Minority Report )

 

[EdZiomek]

Tell us more...

I would like to know all the Japanese and other Asians are doing about this subject.

Any resources, in English, that you can point me to?

thank you.

Ed Z

 

[epigene]

I think that use of the "conventional" electric vehicle is nowadays restricted to small vehicles such as golf carts and escort vehicles used in long-distance running, even in Japan.

However, the electric vehicle is not a lost cause but has actually evolved from the original concept that involved huge costs of electricity charging infrastructure.

Progress in electric motor drive technolgy has resulted in hybrid vehicles you already see on the road like Toyota Prius, based on the concept of combining the gasoline engine with electric motor, which is charged by the gas engine while it is running.

The next step in development is fuel cell technology. It is a concept of using "batteries" charged with hydrogen and oxygen to generate electric power. This is something that is being studied in Japan, the country is at the forefront of the technology. I understand that Toyota and Honda are the closest to commercialization of such vehicles.

A lot of such technology-related material is not available for public access, especially on the Web due to intellectual property rights concerns, so I can give only basic info here:
Fuel Cell Technology
Japan: Electric Cars
Toyota's Hybrid Vehicle Plan

If you're looking for more high-tech material, the best way would be to look for research papers on automotive technology at bookstores and libraries.

 

[Han Chan]

The Toyota Prius have become very popular. It is a hybrid car with both normal gas engine and electric. It seems to have become a status symbol for ecology concious drivers.

2022 Toyota Prius | Find Your Element

 

[Sarapva]

These are a couple of web sites about electric cars I've found:

EVWorld.com: Exploring the 'Future in Motion™' since 1998

Home - Electric Auto Association

My mother owns a Toyota Prius and gets an average of 52 miles a gallon (not sure what that is in km - maybe 70?). They've become very popular in the U.S. In the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" it was explained that General Motors, an American car company, made some electric cars that people really liked, but then the auto industry realized it wouldn't be making the money it makes with gas engines (with replacement oil filters, oil, air filters and other things in a gas engine) because the electric cars hardly needed any maintenance - even the brakes lasted longer than in gas cars. The oil industry had a lot to do with stopping the production of electric cars, too.

This is really frustrating, because electric cars have zero emissions and are clearly non-polluting. Japan has been in the lead for a long time in auto technology and now in hybrid technology, so maybe they'll also take the lead in electric cars!

 

[DoctorP]

This is really frustrating, because electric cars have zero emissions and are clearly non-polluting. Japan has been in the lead for a long time in auto technology and now in hybrid technology, so maybe they'll also take the lead in electric cars!

Are they really non polluting? What happens with the batteries when they are replaced? They would require recycling, and a lot of storage space...the current ideas for electric cars are not ready for mass production, still too many problems to address, but it will happen in due time.

 

[leonmarino]

In the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?" it was explained that General Motors, an American car company, made some electric cars that people really liked, but then the auto industry realized it wouldn't be making the money it makes with gas engines (with replacement oil filters, oil, air filters and other things in a gas engine) because the electric cars hardly needed any maintenance - even the brakes lasted longer than in gas cars. The oil industry had a lot to do with stopping the production of electric cars, too.

Sounds like a pretty interesting documentary. Thanks for the tip.

 

[made of stone]

This is really frustrating, because electric cars have zero emissions and are clearly non-polluting.

I'm not too sure about this. The cars themselves are clean, but aren't they plugged in and charged from the national grid? If so, they're only as green as the sources of that electricity. If much of the energy is still produced by traditional CO2-generating power stations, then electric cars simply shift the environmenntal footprint to the source.

Imho, electric cars won't be a green alternative until the source power for them is itself green (or at least greener!) - from windfarms etc.

 

[EdZiomek]

Amazing thread for me...

This is a wonderful discussion.

Please, some ingenious wonderful student, invent a roofing tile that is both water/wind/sunlight resistant, AND embedded with solar cell filters which can be integrated into the local power grid.

With every ounce of sincerity, I have read where this technology has already been individually invented, it is nothing new. The integration into a rooftop solar collection panel, having the profile of a roofing tile, has not been invented yet, that I know of.

Then plug your car in every night to your battery collection unit, or electrically compressed air system (which drives a generator on demand) to recharge your battery. Oh, one more thing, have an electric charge plug near the street with a credit card reader to sell to any person willing to swipe their credit card, to recharge their battery. -So every home with a fuel cell roof becomes a reseller of electrical energy.

Can I promise you something? The next great innovative inventors will be Asians, I think Americans like myself have become too lazy, and yes, I resemble these remarks.:car:

 

[Sarapva]

I think I know what you mean, EdZiomek - that even though solar panels can be put on the roof of a building, there haven't been any roofing materials made out of solar panels? The latest thing I've heard is that there are solar roofing "shingles" that can be stuck with adhesive to a roof, and cover the entire roof if you wanted. I saw that on the "Who Killed the Electric Car?" documentary, but I haven't found it yet on the internet. Solar Power - Off Grid Living - Free Shipping | Real Goods is a company in California that has a lot of information on solar and off the grid living. The Alternative Energy Store, Solar Panels, Solar Power Systems, Off-Grid & DIY Solar | altE also has information about alternative energy sources.

CC1 and made of stone - Yes, it's true that if the source of the energy is polluting, electric cars will also be indirect polluters. But from what I've read, this still isn't as polluting as the emissions from gas engines. I know that in the U.S. we're still using some coal and nuclear energy, but there is a trend toward more wind energy going into the national grid.

 

[DoctorP]

Sarpva: It is not polluting in the same sense. Conventional autos produce air pollution, which is easy to see and easy to complain about. The batteries when disposed of improperly...and sometimes even when done properly...produce pollution into the soil and water and could be injested by humans. Kind of a silent killer.

To me it is the same and more studies need to be done before we attempt to mass produce these items.

I do like Ed's ideas. There are solar panels that blend in completely with many roofing materials. But I agree that there should be much more development in that area too.

 

[Sarapva]

Do you mean lead-acid batteries, CC1? I don't know much about how polluting the newer gel or sealed batteries are, but I would guess not as much as the lead-acid. But yes, disposing properly of the batteries would be a problem, since they would have to be replaced every so often and there would be more of them to replace in an electric car.

 

[made of stone]

Sarapva, it's really encouraging to hear that more 'green' energy's being produced (btw, I inferred that you were writing about the US there, please correct me if i'm wrong).

We're moving in the same direction here in the UK, very slowly, but i'm (somewhat) proud that we 'seem' to be taking the right path, and the Government appears to be acting as a positive force for change in the international sphere.

Sceptism here, though, is not merely healthy, but essential imho. 'Green energy' has become a trendy tag here lately (the politicians reflecting the concerns of educated citizens, but is it little more than a veneer?) The Leader of the Opposition has been out displaying his 'recycled' trainers (sneakers) for the media photographers at every opportunity. It transpires today that those very same trainers were produced in a Chinese sweatshop, from UK rubbish (trash) that was taken half way round the world, before being flown back as the finished article. We need to be wary of such nonsense, and very discriminatory as consumers if we really care about carbon footprints.

On another note, I don't doubt that the US has the natural resources to go completely green in its energy production, but I don't think it's possible in our little UK. What then, the future?

Back to the cars, and i've been reading about bio-diesel vehicles, which seem like a win-win situation until (if ever?!) the national grid is as green as can be. These vehicles run on waste oils (e.g. from the fast food industry) or other fuels that you can produce yourself. (I read today that Daryl Hannah's hoping to run her car from home-produced sunflower oil). Are these not more clean (less-polluting) than electric cars that run from debatable national grid sources? I've even seen cars adapted to run off agricultural excess (sub-market mushrooms, bananas, etc) before.

Could these be the way forward?

:?

 

[Pachipro]

Back to the cars, and i've been reading about bio-diesel vehicles, which seem like a win-win situation until (if ever?!) the national grid is as green as can be. These vehicles run on waste oils (e.g. from the fast food industry) or other fuels that you can produce yourself. (I read today that Daryl Hannah's hoping to run her car from home-produced sunflower oil). Are these not more clean (less-polluting) than electric cars that run from debatable national grid sources? I've even seen cars adapted to run off agricultural excess (sub-market mushrooms, bananas, etc) before.

You are quite correct made of stone. If ones does a little research one will discover that Rudolf Christian Karl Diesel originally invented his engine to run on peanut oil. In fact, a diesel engine can run on almost anything including agricultural waste. But if that were to be allowed, the petroleum industry would't make any money and they wouldn't want that now would they?

Willie Nelson runs his tour busses on waste oil from restaurants and such and refills at them along the way to his concert tours.

A little research will also lead one to discover that the auto industry, at the behest of the petroleum industry, has also put the lid on many carburators and inventions that can give more than 50 mpg or can burn clean. They usually buy out such an inventor and place the invention on the back shelf, never to be used or seen again. And, as stated above, they did the same with the electric car.

The fact remains that even if bio fuels become the norm in the future, they will still be controlled by the same conglomerates as today and they will continue to charge whatever they desire or think they can get from the public. But, for right now there is tremendous money to be made from oil and they will keep on using it as long as they can get away with it and the heck with a clean environment for, if they really cared about a clean environment, it would be the norm today. Sad, but true.

 

[Sarapva]

Back to the cars, and i've been reading about bio-diesel vehicles, which seem like a win-win situation until (if ever?!) the national grid is as green as can be. These vehicles run on waste oils (e.g. from the fast food industry) or other fuels that you can produce yourself. (I read today that Daryl Hannah's hoping to run her car from home-produced sunflower oil). Are these not more clean (less-polluting) than electric cars that run from debatable national grid sources? I've even seen cars adapted to run off agricultural excess (sub-market mushrooms, bananas, etc) before.
Could these be the way forward?
:?

I've also read that bio-diesel might become widespread sometime in the future. I don't know about how polluting it would be compared with electric cars charged from a non-green system. I've even seen a bio-diesel maker advertized at Real Goods www.realgoods.com/ . Yesterday was "Earth Day", and I saw on the news that an Earth Day bus was driving around the U.S. fueling up at restaurants from their left over cooking oil. That does sound like a sustainable fuel! I didn't know that Willie Nelson also had a bus run on oil!

Sarapva, it's really encouraging to hear that more 'green' energy's being produced (btw, I inferred that you were writing about the US there, please correct me if i'm wrong).

I did mean in the U.S. Since our president has finally acknowledged that global warming could possibly be "real" , more things are being proposed in terms of reducing greenhouses gases. But even before the government acknowledged this, states like California have been experimenting with solar and wind power, and there are wind farms in other states around the country that feed into the national grid. I think the U.S. could possibly use green energy for the entire country. There is lots and lots of sunshine in the desert states, and lots of wind on the prairies and along the coastlines. Great Britain could probably put up windmills along the coasts - there must be a lot of wind especially in the north (Scotland)?

 

[Han Chan]

As sustainable energy is the key to making electric and hydrogen cars viable, I'll give you some figures about danish electricity production: Right now 20% of electricity in Denmark comes from windpower. By 2025 50% of the production will come from windpower!

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

A variety program of the television which solar battery Carr runs for along a Japanese shoreline.
Now the solar battery car runs for 14,627 kilos.
Not the thing that this solar battery car is special.
This car adds a solar battery and battery to a used light car and runs.
wƒ\[ƒ‰[ƒJ[x

 

[Sarapva]

As sustainable energy is the key to making electric and hydrogen cars viable, I'll give you some figures about danish electricity production: Right now 20% of electricity in Denmark comes from windpower. By 2025 50% of the production will come from windpower!

Very good!!

Hiroyuki Nagashima - That sounds interesting - the car must be powered by electricity generated by solar panels.

 

[JayJJ]

How interesting to read such reasoning after 15 years. I watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?", a good documentary. However, I am glad that there was a person who did not let electric cars die..