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Divorcing Japanese national

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CraigW

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Hello everyone,

I wonder if anyone can help me with my problem. About 6 years ago I lived in Japan and married a Japanese women, we moved to China where we lived together. I found out while we were there that she had cheated on me with at least 3 different men, she constantly lied about it but eventually there was too much evidence to believe her.
We split up and she started going out with the last guy who she cheated on me with, now we have been separated for 2 years and I have met a wonderful Chinese girl who I would like to marry.
The problem is my Japanese wife is causing me problems, she is delaying the divorce process and making constant excuses, I have heard that if both parties are willing to divorce then the process is quite simple these days but she hasn't got round to posting the documents, I have been waiting for over 6 months for her to post the documents.

So it seems that I have to go the hard route and get a lawyer, I wondered if anyone has any advice for me? I have no idea how much it will cost or who would be suitable to contact for help.

I'm guessing if she doesn't cooperate then this could be very time consuming and costly.

I'm at my wits end, if anyone has any advice I'd be really grateful to hear it,

Thanks in advance,

Craig.
 
If you can prove adultery on her side then the process will be piss easy. Also, if you can prove that you haven't had sex with her for a significant amount of time, it should do the trick, too. If you can't do either, you are screwed. In any case, consult a Japanese lawyer that specializes in matrimonial law.
 
Hey Ryuurui,


Thanks for replying. I'm not sure exactly what would be considered proof, I could possibly get one of the people who witnessed the signing of the paper when we got married to back me up but I don't think an email from someone would really be enough would it? Anyone could make up an email address and pose as someone else, don't think my friend would be willing to fly to Japan to do this, the only evidence I have is a screenshot of her Facebook page which shows her in a relationship with someone else, it's not dated either so pretty useless.
The other point you made would be easier, she left China last summer and is now working in the United Arab Emirates so it's obvious to anyone that we aren't together.

Any advice on how to go about getting a good Japanese lawyer?

Thanks again.


Craig.
 
Pardon a stupid question, but do the divorce proceedings have to be done in the country where the marriage took place? Don't countries reciprocally recognize divorce decrees in much the same way they reciprocally recognize marriages?

Might be something worth looking into.
 
Hey Mike,
I have been living away from the UK for over 4 years now, I read somewhere that if I am away for a prolonged period of time from my home country I would have to go back for 6 months before the courts could help me.
This isn't 100% though, I will have to look into it a bit more, probably still easier than trying to sort it out in Japan.
We didn't even send over the translated version to England so I'm not sure if they would even have a record of it in the UK.
 
Facebook has dates, and people usually update new stuff on it. So the proof that the picture was not new would be on her side. Your friend would not need to fly, a written statement could do. Email address can be made up, true, but it is possible to check when a given email address was created. Now, who would create an email address a few years prior to this issue with such a great foresight. In any case, paying for a ticket for your friend to fly over, would be WAAAAY cheaper than getting yourself into a prolonged court proceedings in Japan. It will skin you dry, man. Lastly, I forgot to mention this, and it depends on your home country laws, but if you do not register your marriage outside Japan, i.e. you haven't register it in your embassy while in Japan, you could just skip it. Though it may bite you back some day, in this way or another.

Mike - divorce is something that both parties need to agree to, and if she doesnt, it means court. If you sue her, and she is living (her home address is) in Japan, then it would have to be done here (in the district court of her city). However, this should be confirmed with a lawyer. In fact before you do anything, you should get in touch with a lawyer. Also, Japanese are rule obiding citizens, sometimes blindly, and I reckon that if she gets a letter from a lawyer in Japan, she may freak out and let you go. I wish you sort this out man, I have lots of friends with a very similar issue.
 
Thanks guys,
That's a great help, looks like my options are ignoring it altogether (seeing as I didn't get the marriage document translated and sent back to the UK)
Or getting a lawyer and going the divorce/sue route, would love to sue her, she totally deserves it, you wouldn't believe the terrible things she has done :-(
Regardless sounds like I need a lawyer huh, not sure where to start there.

I'm still unsure on how much evidence would be necessary to prove adultery, it's a hard thing to prove 100 percent, I have one ex mutual friend who has already told me he would write me a statement, I have another ex mutual friend who used to be her classmate and good friend who would probably write me a statement as well, even though they used to be mutual friends could they not be labelled as biased and just my friends helping me?
The evidence I had on her cheating was ridiculous, found a boarding pass that showed her coming home a day earlier than she said and she explained she had slept on the guys sofa all day! she sent me txts that day saying 'miss you, coming home tomorrow' she had no answer when I asked her how she could sleep all day on a sofa yet still send me txt messages yet she still wouldn't man up and admit it so I guess she will try and wriggle out of this the same way.
The lying was possibly more heartbreaking than the actual cheating, knowing that you have spent 4 years of your life with someone that you actually never really knew.
 
I know lack of agreement means court. I'm only questioning whether it has to be a Japanese court. I would think not. If they're both in China, they may be able to do it there.

OP, something you need to know about Japanese courts is that in civil cases there is no power of subpoena. The court will not assist you in compelling witnesses to appear nor will it compel anyone to provide any sort of evidence. Each party is responsible for collecting their own evidence. What this means as a practical matter is that you can't get anything like her phone records, email, etc to serve as evidence with the help of the court. You either have it in your hot little hands yourself or you make do without it.
 
Hey Mike,
I do have some msn/skype transcripts that I saved at the time in which she admits to what she's done, also I have some Facebook messages which are pretty incriminating. I'm not sure how legally binding they are as I guess they could all be fabricated (I could for example have the conversation with a friend then copy into notepad and just edit the name and put hers in there, I obviously haven't done that but the devious little witch would probably claim that)
The Facebook messages aren't as incriminating but much harder to forge, it comes from her userid with her photo so I guess that's better huh.
 
evidence - if you are still in touch with her, i mean in person, corner her with a discussion and record her. 1 solid evidence is enough, no matter what type. solid, that's the issue, and only a japanese lawyer can confirm what will stand in the court of law. you need to remember that japan is a beep-boop country and if there is a manual (and usually there is) they will follow. in other words, if your evidence fits the puzzle, it is a go. another thing is that japanese law is case law based, so same as uk, hence all is defined by precedences. Those are known only to lawyers specilising in matrimonial law.

p.s. FB and skype will do. FB is way better, as she can actually see and correct information in case it was written by someone else. It will be virtually impossible for her to squeeze out of that corner. Skype has history but it can be deleted from the server by the user. So she could claim that she didn't write it, but someone else did, and then deleted the contents. I still see a way around it (IP address check), but go with easy to prove items.
 
Don't engage in surreptitious recording without legal advice; it is a CRIME in some places and may be inadmissable as evidence.
 
Last edited:
Mike Cash said:
Don't engage in surreptitious recording without legal advice; it is a CRIME in some places and may be inadmissable as evidence.
Click to expand...

i said corner her not trick her, and there is nothing illegal about recording conversations where one side admits the truth that it would normally remain concealed. how do you think cops interrogate people. dont be naive man. watch a movie titled "a few good men" and you'll know what i am talking about. on a side note i have masters in law, so its not like i have no idea what i am talking about.

[video=youtube;5j2F4VcBmeo]
 

You need to get your tuition back from law school. Some jurisdictions require the consent of all parties to record conversations legally.

You are well-versed enough on the criminal and civil laws of Japan (and China, or wherever they are) that you feel perfectly confident putting forth as a matter of categorical fact that secretly recording her in a conversation couldn't possibly result in criminal or civil consequences? Please tell me you didn't pass the bar.... And that class didn't consist of watching a Tom Cruise movie.

Read this
 
I can't do a 'wiretap' anyway, she's in the United Arab Emirates now. I've been going through old conversations and logs and I think I will have enough info, guess my next step is contacting a lawyer with the info and finding out if I have enough to go through with it.
Will probably give her one last chance to come through on the documents, she said she wont have another chance for 2 weeks, I really don't know about her schedule but I will be ready to go if she doesn't back up her promise.
I found conversations on skype, msn and facebook that are relevant.
 
You need to read more about Japanese laws, Mike. What you link is US federal law and I am talking about Japan. I am telling you from personal experience that you DO NOT need all parties to know that the recording was mde to use it effectively as an evidence in a court of law. I didnt post the movie as an example of what is legal, but to show you what I meant...lol.
 
I linked Federal law, under which it isn't a problem, but more importantly info that there are twelve states in which your blanket advice about it being legal could land a person in hot water. It only takes one exception to disprove something....I found a dozen.....easily......and I don't have a Master's degree in law.

Did you read the bottom link?
 
which one Mike? On the bottom of your message? there's one that's entirely in Japanese which is about law but I can't really read it, just some guesswork from the characters being the same as Chinese.
 
CraigW said:
which one Mike? On the bottom of your message? there's one that's entirely in Japanese which is about law but I can't really read it, just some guesswork from the characters being the same as Chinese.
Click to expand...

It basically makes my point: that you may end up with a recording that the (Japanese) court finds to have been made illegally and which is thus inadmissable.

In a worst case scenario....she might even file a civil suit over it and seek damages.

Check with a competent, licensed, practicing attorney in the jurisdiction where you foresee engaging in legal proceedings.

I'm not a lawyer....nor do I play one on the internet....but you might also want to check whether written testimony from witnesses who can't physically appear in court on your behalf may make their statements in the form of mere letters, or whether their statements need to be depositions.

As I indicated much earlier in the thread, it is not a given that a divorce can only be concluded in the jurisdiction/country where the marriage took place. Read this. As you can see, China is a signatory so it is entirely possible that you may be able to obtain a divorce through Chinese courts and have the decree recognized in Japan just as though the decree had been issued by a Japanese court. Be advised that Japanese courts place a few protective restrictions on this. For example, the Japanese citizen spouse who was divorced has to have been served with papers regarding the divorce or have responded to the notice of the proceedings. They don't stand for something half-assed like the Japanese citizen spouse being served notice through a public notice (such as a newspaper ad, for example. Read this). So long as the Japanese citizen spouse has formal notice of the proceedings and thus an opportunity to either present his/her side of the case or decide to not contest it, then the Japanese courts consider their duty to protect the interests of the Japanese citizen spouse to have been fulfilled and will honor the foreign decree.

Again, please check with a competent, licensed, practicing attorney regarding that.

Full text of the relevant section of the Hague Convention
 
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Well that is US, Mike. Firstly, I am not American, so US laws do not apply to me, as long as I am outside US. Secondly, if he got married in Japan, then his case will fall under Japanese law. And here I DO KNOW that you CAN use such recordings in court as evidence. It is possible that it may differ in criminal law, although I doubt it, but we are talking about civil case here.

Lack of agreement doesn't mean court yet, at least not in all civil cases. Court mediation comes first. Then again, divorce cases may be a special case, which is why lawyer should be consulted beforehand. Court will actually @force@ you guys into a settlement, as courts are loaded with cases and judges cant be arsed with reading piles of documents. Since judges are scared shitless of appeals, as those may badly reflect on their career, they will meander like a snake in can of tomatoes towards a successful mediation. Courts in Japan are a bit like the medical theater, where doctors in Japan issue you crapload of medicines, as they get bonus for each pill. So, you get blue pills for a headache, red for hairache, yellow for eyelash ache and brown in case one of the others wont work, only so the greedy bastard can b uy his new Luis V bag, or whatever you spell that brand crap that this country so willingly sinks in.

Written statements work just fine, but if the case outcome will be decided upon it, then the judge may request the witness to make his appearance in court.

In any case, nowadays every discipline of life is so specialised, that you really should consult a lawyer before doing anything. Bear in mind, that lawyers are out there to skin you dry, and drag the case in time as long as possible, which is one of the main reasons for me not to practice that evil profession.
 
Nice job avoiding the point, barrister.

You still haven't read the Japanese link, have you?
 
Strictly speaking, It is not against the law to record a conversation for obtaining evidence without the other party knowing. The problem arises with the credibility of the evidence obtained by the recording and what purpose it is being used for. Their is currently no law in regards to recording a conversation between two parties where the recorder is one of those parties. It is only against the law to record a conversation as a third party where the two people involved are not aware their conversation is being recorded.

Edit:I am only speaking of Japan.
 
There is a difference between criminal and civil liability, and in some cases a surreptitious recording can land you in legal hot water in Japan in the form of a civil suit. There is also the possibility that such a recording will be inadmissable as evidence, despite it not being a violation of criminal law to make it:


I would have expected our resident master Japanese calligrapher and trained legal mastermind to be able to read Japanese, but apparently he hasn't bothered. Nor has he clued in to the fact that just because a person got married in Japan doesn't mean the only way he can obtain a divorce valid in Japan is through Japanese courts. If a college dropout dumbass like me can figure this stuff out, then surely someone professing to have a Master's degree in law shouldn't find it so difficult.
 
The point being, that there are very, very few cases of recording someone as being "considered" illegal. I write "considered", b/c the actual act does not land them in hot water, it is what their intentions were for doing the act. Let alone actually resulting in a criminal conviction for doing it. Or a civil law suit.
From what I can tell there has not been one.
And the case you stated, 窶佚･窶｢ﾂｪ窶冢ﾂ催卍 S46-11-8 seems to be one of the only cases where a judge has considered it so. And as it is written here, many judges have since overturned this decision in a higher court.
The key words are clearly stated, "窶敖ｽﾅｽﾃ絶?ｰﾃｯ窶廬" and "窶佚射彙ﾅｽﾃ停?堙??堙固?ﾃ滅淡窶堙??堙? etc.

Even in case "ﾂ静ｧ窶杯窶冢ﾂ催卍 H3-3-29" the judge clearly states "窶敕ｩ窶督ｧﾋ弯窶ｰﾂｹ窶堙最陳ｴ窶伉･窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙??｡窶邸窶堙??堙坂?堙遺?堋｢".

Link,
"ﾅ炭ﾅｽ窶督債絶?亙"
 
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