Difference between ます and します
- Thread starter laser2302
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nekojita
先輩
- 14 Jan 2009
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Actually お願いします can be considered as a humble form of 願う (although it is a set phrase in it's own right).The formation is:
お + masu stem + します (or いたします)
masu stem is the masu form of the verb minus the masu part - e.g. 願う → 願います → 願い
Other examples which are pretty common:
断る → お断りします (I refuse)
任せる → お任せします (I leave it to you)
(note that some verbs have specific humble forms which should be used instead of this form. You may know the one for 食べる already - if you've learnt a set phrase to say before you start eating)
お + masu stem + します (or いたします)
masu stem is the masu form of the verb minus the masu part - e.g. 願う → 願います → 願い
Other examples which are pretty common:
断る → お断りします (I refuse)
任せる → お任せします (I leave it to you)
(note that some verbs have specific humble forms which should be used instead of this form. You may know the one for 食べる already - if you've learnt a set phrase to say before you start eating)
- Thread starter
- #4
Noun 愿い and verb 愿う
In Japanese we often hear the phrase お愿いします, here "愿い" is a noun here and then we add する after that to make it into a verb. Can anyone please tell me why we can't use the verb directly i.e. 愿う instead of 愿い so that we don't have to use する at all.
In Japanese we often hear the phrase お愿いします, here "愿い" is a noun here and then we add する after that to make it into a verb. Can anyone please tell me why we can't use the verb directly i.e. 愿う instead of 愿い so that we don't have to use する at all.
- 22 Feb 2008
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That's 願, not 愿.
Why you don't use your previous thread for the same question?
Difference between ます and します
As nekojita-san already answered there, お願い is not a noun in that case. お + the -masu stem + する is a humble form of a verb, and します is the polite form of it.
願う --> お願いする --> お願いします
聞く --> お聞きする --> お聞きします
Have you learned hamble form yet, by any chance?
Why you don't use your previous thread for the same question?
Difference between ます and します
As nekojita-san already answered there, お願い is not a noun in that case. お + the -masu stem + する is a humble form of a verb, and します is the polite form of it.
願う --> お願いする --> お願いします
聞く --> お聞きする --> お聞きします
Have you learned hamble form yet, by any chance?
- 22 Feb 2008
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I merged the two threads.
The nounal usage is a usage of the -masu stem, and a humble form "お～する" is another usage of it. Does your dictionary have an entry for 従い as a noun? This -masu stem is usually not used as a noun, nevertheless お従いします is valied as a humble form of 従う. On the other hand, 笑い is the noun form of 笑う, and I'm sure your dictionary has an entry for this word as a noun, but お笑いする is invalied since "to laugh at a person humbly for him/her" is semantically odd.
In conclusion, お願いします is "お + the -masu stem + します", not "noun + します". Makes sense?
See also this explanation.
The nounal usage is a usage of the -masu stem, and a humble form "お～する" is another usage of it. Does your dictionary have an entry for 従い as a noun? This -masu stem is usually not used as a noun, nevertheless お従いします is valied as a humble form of 従う. On the other hand, 笑い is the noun form of 笑う, and I'm sure your dictionary has an entry for this word as a noun, but お笑いする is invalied since "to laugh at a person humbly for him/her" is semantically odd.
In conclusion, お願いします is "お + the -masu stem + します", not "noun + します". Makes sense?
See also this explanation.
Honorific speech in Japanese - Wikipedia
- 22 Feb 2008
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歓迎する is a -suru verb, and 歓迎します is simply the polite form of it, as same as 招待します, 退治します, 理解します, 相談します, etc etc, etc,,,,,. It's not a humble form, of course. ("The stem + いたす / いたします" is a humble form of -suru verbs, e.g. 歓迎いたします, if you want to know it.)
I ask the same question to you again. Have you learned hamble form? Do you know the function of it?
I ask the same question to you again. Have you learned hamble form? Do you know the function of it?
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- #11
Yes, I've learned the humble form, I know that it is in the form of お + masu stem + する, and I have also learned that it is used by a speaker who considers himself/herself at the lower level.
What I have observed so far is this masu stem is always formed from a verb and it's the verb conjugating with another verb する to form a humble form. When I came to know nouns such as 歓迎 are also used with する confused me a little. Are you saying that polite and humble forms are two completely different things? As a beginner, till now I've only heard of です and ます polite forms.
What I have observed so far is this masu stem is always formed from a verb and it's the verb conjugating with another verb する to form a humble form. When I came to know nouns such as 歓迎 are also used with する confused me a little. Are you saying that polite and humble forms are two completely different things? As a beginner, till now I've only heard of です and ます polite forms.
- 22 Feb 2008
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Haven't you learned when you should use polite forms? Also, as a related topic, do you know what honorific form(尊敬語) is and when it's used?
Last edited:
- 8 Aug 2005
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laser2302: Not all actions have their own verb form, so there are nouns which you can use with する to make them verbs, like 歓迎する. There might be some good info here: Japanese Grammar 日本語
Similarly, you can take the masu stem of a verb and use it as a noun. 願い is a good example, as in 願いが叶う. お願いします is an example of a commonly used phrase that uses a very polite conjugation that turns the verb into a noun, and then using お+nounified verb+する. It's like a burrito of grammar. Take a verb and then change it to a noun, then wrap it in another verb. That's Japanese polite speech in a nutshell.
願い: masu stem
願う: dictionary form
願いします: polite form
お願いする: dictionary keigo
お願いします: polite keigo
お願いいたします: super polite, kenjougo
Similarly, you can take the masu stem of a verb and use it as a noun. 願い is a good example, as in 願いが叶う. お願いします is an example of a commonly used phrase that uses a very polite conjugation that turns the verb into a noun, and then using お+nounified verb+する. It's like a burrito of grammar. Take a verb and then change it to a noun, then wrap it in another verb. That's Japanese polite speech in a nutshell.
願い: masu stem
願う: dictionary form
願いします: polite form
お願いする: dictionary keigo
お願いします: polite keigo
お願いいたします: super polite, kenjougo
- Thread starter
- #14
Honorific forms are used only when the speaker, or member of the speaker's in-group is NOT the subject, am I right? That's what I've learned recently. Regarding polite forms I'm not sure, what I've learned so far now is that polite forms show politeness to the listener regardless of the subject, such as 食べます, where as the in humble and honorific forms subject is needed. But I would like to know what 食べます would look like if subject is involved or if it is converted into a humble form from a polite form? Similarly can verbs like 願う or 断る be converted into their -masu forms?
- 22 Feb 2008
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Polite forms are used to show your respect to listeners/readers, as you wrote. On the other hand, respect is towards the subject in honorific forms, and towards the target/object in hamble forms. As for humble forms, the subject must be the speaker or the speaker's in-group members.
When you are talking with close friends or your family members, you don't need to use polite forms. Even in this case, if the subject or target/object is, for instance, your teacher, you need to use honorific forms or humble forms, respectively.
e.g.
(saying to your friend) 先生が昨日おっしゃってたよ。(The teacher is the subject.)
(saying to your friend) 先生に昨日お話ししておいたよ。(The teacher is the target.)
In the same logic, if there is no target, the humble form お願いする is not used.
e.g.
明日雨が降らないように願った。
There is no target, the one you asked not to make rain in this sentence, so お願いした is not used here. (お願いした implies you asked god or heaven.) And when you say this words to your teacher, the polite form 明日雨が降らないように願いました is used.
Similarly, when the target of 断る is your friend, the humble form お断りする is not used.
e.g.
(saying to your teacher) たけし君の誘いを断りました。
(saying to your friend) たけし君の誘いを断った。
Hope this makes sense.
When you are talking with close friends or your family members, you don't need to use polite forms. Even in this case, if the subject or target/object is, for instance, your teacher, you need to use honorific forms or humble forms, respectively.
e.g.
(saying to your friend) 先生が昨日おっしゃってたよ。(The teacher is the subject.)
(saying to your friend) 先生に昨日お話ししておいたよ。(The teacher is the target.)
In the same logic, if there is no target, the humble form お願いする is not used.
e.g.
明日雨が降らないように願った。
There is no target, the one you asked not to make rain in this sentence, so お願いした is not used here. (お願いした implies you asked god or heaven.) And when you say this words to your teacher, the polite form 明日雨が降らないように願いました is used.
Similarly, when the target of 断る is your friend, the humble form お断りする is not used.
e.g.
(saying to your teacher) たけし君の誘いを断りました。
(saying to your friend) たけし君の誘いを断った。
Hope this makes sense.
