Conjugative practice

GoldCoinLover · 27 Jan 2006

I made this thread so I can ask all my questions here instead of making new ones, related to conjugations. I'd like some tips and really really would like it if people asked me how to say certain things for pratice.
This is a great way to practice

Today I didn't eat.

Not hard ones like this one please, I wish I could do this one but I can't:
Ah! Honya ni kasa o okiwasurete shimatta! (Oh, no! I left my umbrella at the bookstore!)

okiwasurete and shimatta confuses me.
It'd be useful to know it, wouldn't it?

Zenbu tabete. Nokosanaide kudasai. (Eat all this. Please don't leave any.)

This is also confusing me. ~sanaide, I guess it means 'all of'

このあわってもいます。

Tried to conjugate myself.
w
Awateru - drop the ru and add ~tte for continue progressive + imasu.

Shoot please.

Glenn · 27 Jan 2006

I think you should start from simple English sentences and practice putting them into Japanese instead of taking Japanese sentences and trying to dissect them. That way you won't have to worry about complex constructions like okiwasureteshimatta. Spend some time looking at this page and try to learn all of the different conjugations for the different types of verbs. I think it explains it pretty clearly.

GoldCoinLover · 27 Jan 2006

Hanasu

hanashimasu

This makes no sense. That website is terrible. It drops the "u" and adds "himasu?" Uhm, yeah. It may explain it eaisly to you, but not to me.

It's really not that hard. Jus tdrop the damn "u" and add "Imasu", it makes me even more confused because they have to seperate each kana.

And they said to use the non plain form because its easier. What bullocks.

There are many more conjugations for the plain form than the formal form! (or rather informal)

GoldCoinLover · 27 Jan 2006

When you want to make a polite past form, make a verb polite first, then change it to the past form. For instance, if you want the polite past form of the verb "tobu", change it to the polite form "tobimasu", then change it to the past form "tobimasita". This is because the politeness suffix "masu" has a past form but the past suffix "ta" doesn't have a polite form.

Yeah, this doesn't make ANY SENSE.

Do you realize I'm only 17 and my english is horrible? I can't understand alot of those complicated enlgish rules. I also was in special ed all my life and has terrible comprehension problems.

I realize its an indepth site, but it REALLY makes it harder than it really is.

GoldCoinLover · 27 Jan 2006

この雑誌をよんでいます。
この雑誌をよんであります。

I am reading this newspaper.

I also want to know which one si right. Do I use "imasu" (I'm pretty sure this is right because its a process) or arimasu because its "inamiate"?

Also, why does it use "si" instead of shi? Irealize for example hanashimasu the kana for shi is really si/shi but this is the first time ive heard it read as 'si'. Do I Pronounce it 'shi' or 'si'?

Glenn · 27 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Hanasu
hanashimasu
This makes no sense. That website is terrible. It drops the "u" and adds "himasu?" Uhm, yeah. It may explain it eaisly to you, but not to me.

I don't know how you got that. The site uses kunrei romanization, so し is represented as si. Where you picked up that "h" is beyond me.

GoldCoinLover said:
It's really not that hard. Jus tdrop the damn "u" and add "Imasu", it makes me even more confused because they have to seperate each kana.

So how do you want to think about it? Changing す to し, う to い, か to き, が to ぎ, ぬ to に, む to み, ぶ to び, and た to ち when you add ます or dropping /u/ and adding /i/ when you add ます (for Group I verbs)?

GoldCoinLover said:
And they said to use the non plain form because its easier. What bullocks.
There are many more conjugations for the plain form than the formal form! (or rather informal)

No it doesn't say that. Is says "if at first you find polite mode too difficult, use only plain mode until you are more advanced."

GoldCoinLover said:
When you want to make a polite past form, make a verb polite first, then change it to the past form. For instance, if you want the polite past form of the verb "tobu", change it to the polite form "tobimasu", then change it to the past form "tobimasita". This is because the politeness suffix "masu" has a past form but the past suffix "ta" doesn't have a polite form.
Yeah, this doesn't make ANY SENSE.

Yes it does, and that's how it works. This explains how to get polite and polite past forms from dictionary forms, which, incidentally, are the ones you're most likely to learn new verbs by.

Glenn · 27 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Also, why does it use "si" instead of shi? Irealize for example hanashimasu the kana for shi is really si/shi but this is the first time ive heard it read as 'si'. Do I Pronounce it 'shi' or 'si'?

I take it you've never heard of kunrei romanization. Hell, I guess you haven't even heard of Hepburn romanization, even though that's the one you use. Kunrei uses ti, di, tu, du, si, zi, etc. for ち, ぢ, つ, づ, し, and じ because it shows what row they're in better. For instance, the ta row has ta, ti, tu, te, to in kunrei and ta, chi, tsu, te, to in Hepburn. Hepburn shows the pronunciation better, but kunrei is more consistent as to how the kana are grouped.

Sooo... when you see matimasu pronounce it as machimasu; simasu as shimasu, etc. It's actually explained on the page:

Please remember actual sounds are sometimes different from what you might expect from the spellings. The verb たつ has a pronunciation of "tatsu", and its polite form たちます has a pronunciation of "tachimasu". You can easily derive "tatimasu" from "tatu" and "-(i)masu", but it would be difficult to derive "tachimasu" from "tatsu" and "masu". This is why I use Kunrei Romanization in my site.

Mikawa Ossan · 27 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Do you realize I'm only 17 and my english is horrible? I can't understand alot of those complicated enlgish rules. I also was in special ed all my life and has terrible comprehension problems.

So what do you want us to do? Hold your hand? Stop making excuses for yourself, slow down, and keep working at it.

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Zenbu tabete. Nokosanaide kudasai. (Eat all this. Please don't leave any.)
This is also confusing me. ~sanaide, I guess it means 'all of'

Naw, "nokosanaide" is all one word. It's just the verb "nokosu" conjugated to a negative te-form.

Nokosu - leave
Nokosanai - negative form, But this is the informal negative form (I think).
Nokosanaide- negative te-form

Nokosu is a plain form. To conjugate to the informal negative form, change the last.. um.. syllable(?) from it's corresponding "u" sound to it's corresponding "a" sound.

Example the "su" of nokosu changes into "sa".

Then add "nai".

"nokosanai" - not leave.

GoldCoinLover said:
okiwasurete and shimatta confuses me.
It'd be useful to know it, wouldn't it?

Okiwasurete it just the te-from of "okiwasureru". And I think (I'm not sure, remember I'm still a beginner myself) that okiwasureru 「置き忘れる」 is a combination of the words "oku" (to place/put) and "wasureru" (to forget).

Shimatta is a hard one that I think I shouldn't try to explain.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

Nicky said:
Naw, "nokosanaide" is all one word. It's just the verb "nokosu" conjugated to a negative te-form.

Nokosu - leave
Nokosanai - negative form, But this is the informal negative form (I think).
Nokosanaide- negative te-form
Nokosu is a plain form. To conjugate to the informal negative form, change the last.. um.. syllable(?) from it's corresponding "u" sound to it's corresponding "a" sound.

Example the "su" of nokosu changes into "sa".
Then add "nai".
"nokosanai" - not leave.
Okiwasurete it just the te-from of "okiwasureru". And I think (I'm not sure, remember I'm still a beginner myself) that okiwasureru ﾂ「窶冰窶堋ｫ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙ｩﾂ」 is a combination of the words "oku" (to place/put) and "wasureru" (to forget).
Shimatta is a hard one that I think I shouldn't try to explain.

Yes, thank you, I guess I'll take a break.

But I made a sentence I play my PSP everyday, and normally, you put an object after the thing and then before the verb. However, this time it was wrong and I had to use a "De" (By means of), can you explain why I had to do this?

It sounds like to me the 'nai' part was informal speech and not forma.

Thanks for the help.

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

Why you use "de"? I guess because you are playing "by means of" your psp.
Or rather "with" your psp.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

Nicky said:
Why you use "de"? I guess because you are playing "by means of" your psp.
Or rather "with" your psp.

Nicky, can you please explain what yomu turns into when I add yomuno?

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

Post an example that has "yomuno" in it and I'll try to explain.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

Nicky said:
Post an example that has "yomuno" in it and I'll try to explain.

Here you go:

Now what noun is it? A place, place or thing? what??

not at all; what you need to do is turn that verb into a noun so you can use it with the "x ga suki/suki ja nai" or "x ga kirai" forms.
to do that? just take the short (dictionary, casual) verb and place "no" after it and voila, instant modified verb: 読むー＞読むの. Treat this like a self-contained noun.
now, by itself, 読むの can't really do anything. You've created the noun, but now you have to do something with it. You want to say that....
You like to read: 読むのがすき
You don't like to read: 読むのがすきじゃない
You hate to read: 読むのがきらい
You love to play video games: テレビゲームをするのがだいすき！
Note that these forms are the same structures you'd use for saying "I like fish" or "I hate the rain;" the only difference is that you're using a modified verb to take the place of the noun. (If there's a special term for this someone help me out here)
Using verbs modified this way can be used in many ways, such as saying "I forgot to do my homework," or "reading japanese is hard!" Try to make these sentences on your own (忘れる（わすれる）is to forget, 宿題（しゅくだい） is homework, and 難しい（むずかしい） is difficult)

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

Ohhh, I think I already said in another thread I replied to, That is beyond my ability to explain. But actually I think I can expain it. I start with what I said in your other thread:

dictionary.com said:
Noun-
1. The part of speech that is used to name a person, place, thing, quality, or action and can function as the subject or object of a verb...

Nicky said:
The noun is merely the subject or object of another verb. So when you say in english "I like to read" read becomes the object of the verb "like". That means that "read' is the thing that you "verb" (or "like").

That said we now know that verbs can be used as nouns too. So this "yomu no" thing shouldn't be that hard to grasp. Adding no to a verb just marks them as also being "nouns" in addition to "verbs" .

"no" usage

pen de kaku no ga suki desu.
i like to write with a pen

guitar de hiite iru no ga mutsukashii nee.
playing (by way of/with) guitar is hard, isn't it?

There is another way to say these sentences. I think it's something like:

pen de kaku koto ga suki desu

And it means something similar to "I like the event/experience of writ(ing) with a pen.". Same thing, different wording. But don't quote me of this last part because I'm not sure of this "koto" thing at all.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

Nicky said:
Ohhh, I think I already said in another thread I replied to, That is beyond my ability to explain. But actually I think I can expain it. I start with what I said in your other thread:
That said we now know that verbs can be used as nouns too. So this "yomu no" thing shouldn't be that hard to grasp. Adding no to a verb just marks them as also being "nouns" in addition to "verbs" .
"no" usage
pen de kaku no ga suki desu.
i like to write with a pen
guitar de hiite iru no ga mutsukashii nee.
playing (by way of/with) guitar is hard, isn't it?
There is another way to say these sentences. I think it's something like:
pen de kaku koto ga suki desu
And it means something similar to "I like the event/experience of writ(ing) with a pen.". Same thing, different wording. But don't quote me of this last part because I'm not sure of this "koto" thing at all.

Apparently though, it uses it like "kaku no" which means "write"

To me, write is a verb or something, how is it a noun? I know how its a verb.

But a noun? It has a person, place, and a thing. Is it a thing? No, I don't think so, it means "write." Is it a person? No. Is it a place? No, so how is it a noun as well as a verb?

kumo · 28 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
Apparently though, it uses it like "kaku no" which means "write"
To me, write is a verb or something, how is it a noun? I know how its a verb.
But a noun? It has a person, place, and a thing. Is it a thing? No, I don't think so, it means "write." Is it a person? No. Is it a place? No, so how is it a noun as well as a verb?

"Writing" is a noun, Kevin, an abstract noun. What's so hard to understand about this?

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

kumo said:
"Writing" is a noun, Kevin, an abstract noun. What's so hard to understand about this?

My mom disagrees with you.
"Writing" is an adjective/or verb. It shows action. It is not a noun.

Here's a definition to you:
An abstract noun refers to states, events, concepts, feelings, qualities, etc., that have no physical existence.

It sure seems like a state to me, the process of "writing".

"Bravery" would be an example of an asbtract noun, not to write.

kumo · 28 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
My mom disagrees with you.
"Writing" is an adjective/or verb. It shows action. It is not a noun.

No offence, but I think Oxford English Dictionary's opinion on this is a bit more important than your mom's.

writing
n noun
1 the activity or skill of writing.
2 written work, especially with regard to its style or quality. Ø(writings) books or other written works.
3 a sequence of letters or symbols forming coherent words. Øhandwriting.

Here's a definition to you:
An abstract noun refers to states, events, concepts, feelings, qualities, etc., that have no physical existence.

It sure seems like a state to me, the process of "writing".

This post was a joke, right? Please tell me it was.

The7thSamurai · 28 Jan 2006

"Writing" can be a noun or a verb. In the sentence "I am writing", "writing" is a verb (present continuous verb). In the sentence "I like writing", "writing" is a noun. It is a "thing" you like.

Nicky · 28 Jan 2006

Dictionary.com said:
A Noun is-
1. The part of speech that is used to name a person, place, thing, quality, or action and can function as the subject or object of a verb...

Dictionary.com said:
A verb is-
The part of speech that expresses existence, action, or occurrence in most languages.

A verb can be a noun.

If you can't understand this then just think of it as a "thing", Because I can not explain it.

moofs · 28 Jan 2006

Tell him to go look up the word "gerund" at Dictionary.com | Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com or something. It's hard to explain things when he doesn't even know the concepts in English.

Writing is a noun(more specifically, a gerund) in that context.

GoldCoinLover · 28 Jan 2006

moofs said:
Tell him to go look up the word "gerund" at www.dictionary.com or something. It's hard to explain things when he doesn't even know the concepts in English.
Writing is a noun(more specifically, a gerund) in that context.

My mom just said to me right now "Stay away from those people. They are terrible." (referring to this forum)

And I agree.

Instead of boasting about that I don't know my own language, why don't you explain the concepts?

kumo · 28 Jan 2006

GoldCoinLover said:
My mom just said to me right now "Stay away from those people. They are terrible." (referring to this forum)
And I agree.

This must be the third time you promised to leave this forum. Are you lying again this time, Kevin?

Instead of boasting about that I don't know my own language, why don't you explain the concepts?

What exactly didn't you understand?

Mikawa Ossan · 28 Jan 2006

Nicky said:
Why you use "de"? I guess because you are playing "by means of" your psp.
Or rather "with" your psp.

The easy answer is that asobu is an intransitive verb, and therefore does not take an object.

I tried thinking of other examples, and every time de seemed much better than wo. Like, "Let's play tag", etc.

I guess in your terms "by means of" is the best way to think of this, because the English "play" and Japanese "asobu" are similar at times, but even then, not entirely the same. Of course, the same holds true for almost any given set of English/Japanese words.

Conjugative practice

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