confused with the word "find"

[beluga]

What's the difference between mitsukenai and miataranai?

How do you say, "I am unable to find it, (because I was stopped by someone)"? mitsukerarenai?

What about "I am unable to find it (After searching but still can't find it)" mitsukenai?

 

[Elizabeth]

Miataranai is similar to mituskaranai, both translated as something not being found, but miataranai can be used when you first become aware it is missing (Oh, it isn't there, Oh it's gone) and mitsukaranai only after you've actually searched and still can't find it. I've never personally come across mitsukaranai that I recall, however, so it's probably pretty rare. Mitsukerarenai would be "I can't find it."

 

[beluga]

Miataranai is similar to mituskaranai, both translated as something not being found, but miataranai can be used when you first become aware it is missing (Oh, it isn't there, Oh it's gone) and mitsukaranai only after you've actually searched and still can't find it. I've never personally come across mitsukaranai that I recall, however, so it's probably pretty rare. Mitsukerarenai would be "I can't find it."

Thank Elizabeth. I now clearly able to differentiate between miataranai and mitsukaranai. However, theres something more complicated. There is mitsukeru and mitsukaru. Mitsukeru is to find and mitsukaru is to be found. So if you combine it with negative and potential form it becomes complex. Hmm, let me table it out and see if the meaning is correct

mitsukeru = to find
mitsukerareru = could perform the task of finding
mitsukenai = unable to find (after seaching around)
mitsukerarenai = could not perform the task of finding

mitsukaru = be found
mitsukareru = could be found
mitsukaranai = cannot be found
mitsukarenai = could not be found

So, from this table, if I want to say, "I tried looking for it but it's nowhere to be found", shouldn't I use mitsukenai rather than mitsukerarenai?

 

[Elizabeth]

mitsukeru = to find
mitsukerareru = could perform the task of finding
mitsukenai = unable to find (after seaching around)
mitsukerarenai = could not perform the task of finding

I'm not exactly clear on what task of finding you're referring to, simply "find" "can find" "don't find" and "not able to find" are well worn but still fine expressions.

mitsukaru = be found
mitsukareru = could be found
mitsukaranai = cannot be found
mitsukarenai = could not be found

Although mitsukaru itself being the passive tense doesn't take the normal inflections for advanced conjugations such as rareru. Hence no mitsukareru or mitsukarena that I'm aware of.

So, from this table, if I want to say, "I tried looking for it but it's nowhere to be found", shouldn't I use mitsukenai rather than mitsukerarenai?

The simplest way is just mitsukaranakatta (it wasn't/couldn't be found) desu.

 

[Elizabeth]

Of course there's always "mistukaru koto ga dekinai" but the normal translation for sentences like "Kare wa shigoto ga mitsukaranai" would still be He cannot find work, as opposed to "work is not/cannot be found" so in the negative at least there really isn't that much of a distinction between not found and cannot find unless you're going to blame the individual for not looking hard enough which the Japanese way certainly avoids.....