- Thread starter
- #26
how do you know this!!!!!
Big trouble, bogus car accident!
- Thread starter ginlane
- Start date
how do you know this!!!!!
- 15 Mar 2002
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You just told me.
Look at the legit buses you see and tell me what their plates look like.
They are carrying passengers for hire. You can't do that with vehicles registered as those are or with the class of drivers license I suspect they all have. Anybody who went to the time, expense, and effort of getting properly licensed isn't going to waste their time driving for a dodgy illegal outfit like this one.
Seriously, gin, these are not legitimate people running a legitimate business. They can operate under the radar because they cater to overseas customers who haven't a clue how illegal they are. These people aren't friends and they aren't doing you any favors dragging you into their operations. They're simply looking to exploit you. I would leave the money on the table and quietly get the eff out of Dodge in the middle of the night if I were you.
- 20 Aug 2003
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We are beginning to learn the real reason you are here. I don't give a damn that you aren't currently working for them or that they intended to pay you off in cash. The point you just made shows that you and they were intending for you to work. Stop pussyfooting around the language.
Know the penalties for working illegally? It's up to immigration, but potential penalties include up to 21 days of incarceration (with daily grilling and forcing you to sign a document affirming your crime), fines of up to a million yen, putting you on a plane home (at your expense), and blacklisting you from ever returning here for 1-5 years.
- 6 Mar 2003
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Take a look at what Uber is doing in Japan. This is their viewpoint and even they have given up even after trying out various schemes to get around it. For example in Fukuoka they claimed that they were just paying drivers to collect data while driving passengers around but not getting compensation for the passengers themselves.
Going back to the original question... since you are basically here for your friend's convenience, were primarily driving to help her, and you believe yourself to be in the right as far as the accident goes then I would refuse to pay. Either she helps you fight/negotiate or she takes responsibility for the $600. Of course the downside here is that she may try to get you to "work off" the money by driving for them illegally etc.
So I agree with the others -- you should try to extract yourself from the situation. What if this same thing happened while you had paying passengers in the car and the police figured out what you were doing (working illegally for a company that was operating illegally)? It would be a much worse situation leading to much higher costs and likely deportation...
- 15 Mar 2002
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And tell your friends driving the people around in the mini-bus that even though their regular license covers operating a vehicle of that size, it does not cover the nature of the activity they are engaged in. Among the other penalties when they eventually get caught is having their license revoked. Not "suspended"...revoked. Completely. Can't drive anything.
- 15 Mar 2002
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I found that the people operating those buses illegally (company, not drivers), could face a variety of penalties...including up to three years in prison and up to a three million yen fine.
http://suguru324.extrem.ne.jp/heiwabus/shirobus.pdf
http://suguru324.extrem.ne.jp/heiwabus/shirobus.pdf
@ginlane You need to review Mike Cash's posts #30 and #31, and calmly relay that information to your "friends".
Suggest that you will not go to the police to inform on their illegal practices IF they cover the entire cost of the supposed 'accident' and make it disappear.
And if they also let you leave and get on with your life without repercussions.
Suggest that you will not go to the police to inform on their illegal practices IF they cover the entire cost of the supposed 'accident' and make it disappear.
And if they also let you leave and get on with your life without repercussions.
- 15 Mar 2002
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https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/恐喝罪
I'd rather give them 600 bucks than the ammunition to send me to prison for up to ten years. What you're suggesting is extortion.
- Thread starter
- #34
Oh charming! nice advice, blackmail my friend!! I've known this person for 10 years, I'm certain she is not knowingly doing something bad, I don't want to leave with bad feeling and I feel certain she's not trying to sweatshop me for gain.
- Thread starter
- #36
Well,@ginlane it sounds like you're the person being blackmailed/extorted.
So forget my suggestion, go on and do what they're asking you to do (pay), keep driving for them, etc.
on edit: And hope that you don't get busted when the whole operation does.
okay so I just had it out with my friend. she says it's bulls**t they're business is completely above board. They are not a transportation company but an event company. She also stated what I said
in a previous post. They just move people from A to B, no money is being charged for transportation.
- 15 Mar 2002
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She has a woefully inadequate understanding of the law regarding this. Did you show her the link I posted? She can read Japanese, right?
Ask her what the company's 旅行業登録番号 is.
If they are so legit, why are they illegally employing you?
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- 12 Oct 2013
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... and the fact that they apparently only have the bare minimum, mandatory insurance for their company car.
Look, I don't know your friends or their business. They could be lovely people. In their minds they could be following the letter of the law. Or, they could be manipulating the definition of words to convince themselves they are following the law. None of this really helps you extract yourself from the situation you are in now. If you have been friends for 10 years and you believe they are not doing something bad, then why ruin this friendship over $600? This brings me back to my original post.
It also brings up the side question of why your friends would make you pay $600 if they know you don't have it. I presume they know something of your financial situation since you are friends and they are planning to employ you. Or, if you don't have the cash now and they still intend to employ you, I suppose they could set up a payment plan.
Or, you could fight the farmer on your own, but I am not optimistic about the outcome of this course (and, if the woman won't help you out, it makes me wonder about the depth of this friendship). Anyway, hopefully by now you will have researched some options for free legal advice.
Look, I don't know your friends or their business. They could be lovely people. In their minds they could be following the letter of the law. Or, they could be manipulating the definition of words to convince themselves they are following the law. None of this really helps you extract yourself from the situation you are in now. If you have been friends for 10 years and you believe they are not doing something bad, then why ruin this friendship over $600? This brings me back to my original post.
It also brings up the side question of why your friends would make you pay $600 if they know you don't have it. I presume they know something of your financial situation since you are friends and they are planning to employ you. Or, if you don't have the cash now and they still intend to employ you, I suppose they could set up a payment plan.
Or, you could fight the farmer on your own, but I am not optimistic about the outcome of this course (and, if the woman won't help you out, it makes me wonder about the depth of this friendship). Anyway, hopefully by now you will have researched some options for free legal advice.
- 15 Mar 2002
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If they were legit, you would find the information contained in the red box on the linked page somewhere on their site. If it is there, I can't find it.
外国の旅行会社等で旅行業登録のない会社のホームページへの申込に注意しましょう。｜一般社団法人 全国旅行業協会（ANTA）
登録番号の記載がない旅行会社は、無登録（違法）の旅行会社か、外国の旅行会社の可能性があります
外国の旅行会社等で旅行業登録のない会社のホームページへの申込に注意しましょう。｜一般社団法人 全国旅行業協会（ANTA）
登録番号の記載がない旅行会社は、無登録（違法）の旅行会社か、外国の旅行会社の可能性があります
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- 6 Mar 2003
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The law as stated on this page clearly states that business use requires business plates. Doesn't matter if you're explicitly charging for the ride or not.
公益社団法人秋田県バス協会（公式ホームページ）| 輸送｜旅客
Anyway it looks like you're not alone in doing this if there are so many pages online from legitimate companies warning people about this kind of thing.
Really it's not a problem at all -- until your friends get in an injury accident or otherwise get caught. Until then it's happy days.
The page that Mike uploaded explicitly warns about unlicensed/unaccredited travel operators although it's not clear to me if it's explicitly illegal to provide travel services without joining the association.
Here's a guy who appears to be doing it all aboveboard:
Small group, countryside tours of Japan
- 15 Mar 2002
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Nope. Just to do it without registering with the government and operating in accordance with the provisions of the Travel Agency Law.
http://law.e-gov.go.jp/htmldata/S27/S27HO239.html
If they are registered, I'd like to see the number.
Bet you a bag of donuts they violate this one too: Small group, countryside tours of Japan
@ginlane , since she is so adamant they are a 100% above board company following all relevant laws, she wouldn't object to us consulting with the Ministry of Tourism (yes, there is one), the MLIT, and the police....would she?
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- 8 Aug 2005
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Wow, this thread has taken a fascinating turn!
When I was visiting a friend in Korea last year, we were on our way to the mountains when he got into a minor accident with a bongo truck. Although it wasn't completely his fault, we didn't have the language skills to express this when the police and insurance folks came, and the truck driver just steamrolled us because we had no idea what he was telling them and had no way to refute his claims. We were only allowed to go on our way once my friend kowtowed to the other driver in apology, as we were told that's just how you resolve this sort of situation. I'm not sure whatever became of the insurance claim... I'm assuming the apology amounted to an admission of responsibility, so it probably counted against him, I'll have to ask him next time we talk.
@ginlane, even if this accident was completely fabricated, it might be a blessing in disguise that it happened when and how it did, as it's brought to light your friend's shady business. There's nothing stopping this kind of situation from happening again, and if you are found to be working without a visa or the proper license, for an unlicensed business, you and your friends may face much harsher repercussions. They might be good friends and think they are doing everything aboveboard, but that doesn't make it so. The fact that they want you to work for them without sponsoring a proper visa is a huge red flag, and also indicates that maybe they are unable to sponsor you because they aren't obeying the law. If I were you, I would find a way to extricate myself from this situation as delicately as possible, and consider it a cheap lesson. Whether or not their intentions are pure, if you stick around with these people they could land you in a lot more trouble.
When I was visiting a friend in Korea last year, we were on our way to the mountains when he got into a minor accident with a bongo truck. Although it wasn't completely his fault, we didn't have the language skills to express this when the police and insurance folks came, and the truck driver just steamrolled us because we had no idea what he was telling them and had no way to refute his claims. We were only allowed to go on our way once my friend kowtowed to the other driver in apology, as we were told that's just how you resolve this sort of situation. I'm not sure whatever became of the insurance claim... I'm assuming the apology amounted to an admission of responsibility, so it probably counted against him, I'll have to ask him next time we talk.
@ginlane, even if this accident was completely fabricated, it might be a blessing in disguise that it happened when and how it did, as it's brought to light your friend's shady business. There's nothing stopping this kind of situation from happening again, and if you are found to be working without a visa or the proper license, for an unlicensed business, you and your friends may face much harsher repercussions. They might be good friends and think they are doing everything aboveboard, but that doesn't make it so. The fact that they want you to work for them without sponsoring a proper visa is a huge red flag, and also indicates that maybe they are unable to sponsor you because they aren't obeying the law. If I were you, I would find a way to extricate myself from this situation as delicately as possible, and consider it a cheap lesson. Whether or not their intentions are pure, if you stick around with these people they could land you in a lot more trouble.
- 15 Mar 2002
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From what he has told us about them (without meaning to), I was genuinely surprised that he had his passport available to show to the police. They sound like the kind of shady businesspeople who hold their employees passports "for safekeeping".
As it is, I fear they have now stifled him and are preventing him from posting. If they were legit, he wouldn't have had to ask for the link to their website to be deleted and he could have just reported to us the travel agency's registration number. His silence and the lack of that number just serve to shout loud and clear that they are indeed, as suspected, operating illegally.
As it is, I fear they have now stifled him and are preventing him from posting. If they were legit, he wouldn't have had to ask for the link to their website to be deleted and he could have just reported to us the travel agency's registration number. His silence and the lack of that number just serve to shout loud and clear that they are indeed, as suspected, operating illegally.
