Back to the very Basics with grammar (Using "wa"/"ha")

[Mike Cash]

Frustration is part of the process. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

 

[nameless]

Finally, to me, making a statement about your Japanese being good (even with the confirmation particle ね), even a little, seems a bit too forward. Perhaps 「すこし上手ですかね」, which introduces a sense of uncertainty would sound a bit less forward. Then again, I am not Japanese, so take my cultural observations for what they are; observations.

One of my teachers once told me that saying oneself is 上手 at something can be perceived as rude, and that it would be better to use 得意 instead. The example sentences on jisho.org seem to support that idea. :blackeye:

 

[Mike Cash]

All that aside, a more appropriate choice would involve 上達 instead of 上手 anyway.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

あの方はどなたですか。 マイクさんです。 そうですか？あの。。 そのねこは机の下ですよ！ あの方は私の母です。i learned to say haha for my mom and okaasan for others. I learned today donata/dare. I learned to use と for inbetween. "and in between." Use word + to + no. not in that order. Im reading it again. Thank you everyone.

 

[Toritoribe]

方 in あの方 is an honorific. You can't use honorifics for your inner group. It should be あの人, あれ, あそこにいるのは or like that.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Yes, I used 母 right, but forgot that other part. Use haha for your own mother. Was my sentence about the cat correct? Thank you!

 

[Toritoribe]

Not incorrect but unnatural. 猫[ねこ] is an "animated thing". 机の下にいます is more common. What do you imply by よ?

 

[GoldCoinLover]

I thought yo acts as emphasis. I was trying to imply surprise. Japanese is alot harder and more complex than I thought....sigh...thanks

 

[GoldCoinLover]

I'm still learning some. I've learned ha/wa and no so far.also made and kara.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Ni marks location in that example with the desk?

 

[GoldCoinLover]

I'm not ready for particles that act as inflection or emphasis yet. Ill read my book again.

 

[Toritoribe]

Ni marks location in that example with the desk?

It's more likely "with います". に indicates the location of existence, whereas で is for the location of action.
e.g.
猫が机の下で寝ています。
A cat is sleeping under the desk.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Thank you. I remember reading about ni as for sometimes location. I heard de can be used like, by showing an action was performed in location. I went by car. By car is perhaps in this way showing how an action was achieved. I went to the store by car. Would that be: 店へくるまで行きました。へ shows direction " to "(the store) , and de shows location of the action...that you went by car. This must perhaps make sense? Thank you

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Location of existence like; どこに猫がいますか。

 

[Toritoribe]

The car is NEVER the location. で is used to indicate the means of transfer in that sentence.
You can also use に instead of へ.

 

[Angel Valis]

に tends to be used to mark the location with verbs that deal with existence, as Toritoribe said. Thus 「机が私の部屋にあります」, 「猫が車の中にいます」, and 「私は大阪府に住んでいます」. It also marks the time when something was/is/will be done, though it tends not to be used with time words that work relative to when the phrase is uttered such as 明日 or 昨日. に is also used for a boatload of other things; it takes up about 20 pages in my particle book.

で marks the location where an action takes place, such as 「食堂で食べました」. It also marks the means by which something is done, ｢店に車で行くつもりです」. And, can mean "with"...I believe...at least the ladies in the 食堂 understood when I said 「カレーライスをから揚げでお願いします」, earlier. And other things too of course.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Toritorbite, I'm going to stop writing on my phone as it makes a misunderstanding. It's either that (most likely) or that you're just misunderstanding what I'm saying. It's happened several times, probably because of me being too lazy to type it full, because it takes me 30 to 40 minutes to write a couple sentences on that...or a paragraph. It's a real pain and I can't really have a computer. My PS Vita it's alot easier.

Yes, I overestimate my japanese abilities. I'm beginning to realize that to an extent, not as MUCH as an extent as everyone thinks though, I think some of this was a misunderstanding. I appreciate Mike telling it like It is, actually I prefer that, but saying that after 2 years of study all I've learned was very elementary japanese was pretty harsh. The point you were trying to make was (I think at least) to warn me not to jump to conclusions on japanese so quickly...its can be alot more complex than it looks. And that grammical structures have alot of usages, more than one, and to try and think of it I think at least, in a more general sense. Also knowing that you really can't understand much in Japanese without understanding grammar well. I agree with you.At least in my opinion, true or not. I haven't studied for 2 years straight - it's been off and on. I only recently (the past 2 weeks?) been studying consistently hard every day. And I self study and never taken a class. Personally, I think that's not too bad for someone who had to teach themselves everything. I'm not dismissing or dissing anyone here. I'm taking a class in college, but honestly, I've been a bit discouarged by some of the peoples comments here. I'm not trying to throw a pity party - but when you say something like that Mike, it really made me completely doubt myself, and my own abilities.

I understand your INTENTION, and what you meant by it, to make a point, perhaps I took it the wrong way? It's hard for me to accept that after 2 years off of and on self study, I only learned some katakana hiragana and a dozen kanji. I know how to use ano though, I do now. I understand things much better - mostly due to you guys, honestly. I'm not trying to mess with anyone. I don't want to be sugar coated at all, but that really was too much for me Mike. This really isn't a healthy place for me to post in, if it has this effect on me. Yes, I know you're point, I accept you're right, I know I don't know much about japanese at all. You have a very valid point in "Just being able to pick out vocabulary " and understand a sentence. I agree completely. But whether its the way you said it, or my interpretation, its too much for me right now. I'm trying to handle alot of work at once, alot of pressure, and I just get shot down. I shouldn't have to explain myself, and I'm not going to argue with you guys either way about it.

I'm really getting tired of this. Mike, I have alot of respect for you. You're a good guy. I really think that. Same with everyone here. How can I say this without offending someone? I better just not say anything anymore. And whenever i Try to defend my own viewpoint, flawed or not, that's not the point, I always remember Dale Carnegie's book, "You can't win an argument." and tell myself how much a fool of I am of trying to say I'm right, when the other person may be, no matter who's "right", the other person will justify how they feel as right, and we both lose. I notice this again and again with other people.

People get angry, whether their anger is justified or not. I learned to not do that. It doesn't make the situation any better. It makes it worse. Because the other person will try and justify what they did, its only natural. I used to do that, and learned the hard way what happened. People told me to go kill myself, people told me to I was a "troll" and would rather better be off dead. I didn't realize their viewpoints. They were completely right, I was a troll. I try to stand up with myself more nowdays, but it's difficult after that.

Yeah, I have alot of issues.

 

[Andromedashun]

No need to get mad after 2 years of training. It took me 4 years to get used to Kana and the dreaded Kanji. I know I'm slow but to recognize a completely new alphabet system definitely requires a lot of effort.

 

[Mike Cash]

Everybody on the planet has issues and problems, Kevin. Some people work to rise above them. Some people lie down and wallow in them. Your problem is precisely that you choose to let your issues define who you are. And you have learned how to use one-man pity parties as psychological weapons to guilt and manipulate the people around you. I wish you could meet my children; they'd tell you not to even waste your time trying to manipulate me like that. I'm immune to it.

Everybody here is as patient and helpful to you as we can be. We try to help you with your questions about learning Japanese, but we end up plowing the same ground over and over again. I don't know what the "two years" you're talking about is, but here is something you said SIX years ago: I've always had trouble with "kore" and "kono"....A noun is always after "kono", unlike kore.. Six years later and here we are again trying to help you get kore/kono. As I said, that's pretty much Lesson 1 stuff. Even with learning difficulties if you had actually steadily plugged away at learning Japanese for all this time you would have progressed beyond that. As I mentioned above, you choose to wallow in your issues and let them define you, so every time you have a little bit of difficulty or get frustrated you throw a pity party and announce you're going to quit/suspend your studies. Then after a while you come back and have to start from zero again. If you'd display a little gumption and character and tough it out through the hard spots instead of whining and quitting you'd have made some progress by now. Maybe not as much as somebody else without a learning difficulty, but you sure as hell wouldn't be stuck doing Lesson 1 stuff over for the umpteenth time. This isn't a learning difficulty issue; this is a character issue. You're not the sixteen year old kid you were when you first joined us. You're a twenty-four year old grown-assed man. Start acting like one. Have some expectations of yourself instead of falling back on excuses of why you can't do something.

And if you haven't done so yet, consult with some of the guys here about what a decent textbook is and get it. After years of hearing people go on and on about Tae Kim's guide I finally took a look at it the other day for the first time. My thoughts on it were: "Well, it's better than nothing" and "You get what you pay for". And spare me the "Waaah! I don't have any money" whining. Surely in course of eight years anybody could scrape together the few bucks for a book.

I already told you I admire your desire you have to learn Japanese and work you put into it. I know it isn't easy for you. But that doesn't change the fact that your repeated giving up in the face of adversity is a far larger problem for you than any learning difficulty you may have. Nobody ever accomplished a damned thing by giving up every time they hit a hard spot.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

Alright Mike. I'm NOT giving up learning japanese. I'm giving up coming here. Because you've crossed the line. Not me. I'm a good person. (Although if I came off too harsh before, I'm sorry and I'll edit my response.)I don't need you to constantly make me self doubt myself. You don't know me mike. I've accomplished things in other areas. I've worked very, very hard in other areas. Maybe not japanese, but i'm a fighter. And although what you say bothers me, alot, I'm going to keep pushing on.

 

[GoldCoinLover]

And what does it matter? Learning something isn't a race. As long as I keep with it and keep studying, I'll make progress.

 

[Mike Cash]

Good. Then maybe we can quit hearing your "poor me" whining on a regular basis.