Australian Government siding with Japanese Illegal whaling

[centrajapan]

Australians should not kill kangaroos for fun. Thats just barbaric. If they kill it eat it atleast.

 

[kame]

As Sara has mentioned Kangaroos are Australian on Australian territory and are governed by Australian law. There are International standards with regard to how these animals are killed. The reason I have even mentioned them is because centrjapan has constantly used this fact to justify killing whales. Kangaroos and whales are two very different situations as Sara has explained. Australia's want of protection for the whales (all whales) is not a racially motivated attack on Japan.

Over 3 million wild kangaroos "harvested" each year in Australia vs thousands of whales caught by Japan. More than 1000 kangaroos are killed for each whale killed by Japanese.

I don't believe all "harvested" kangaroos are eaten by humans? Even with your Australian appetite, I don't think you can stomach 15 kangaroos per person per year! I agree, those are quite different situations.

No matter what you say, in the light of that kind of double standard, Japanese people will sense that it is at least partially motivated by prejudice. Opposition cases should be made on strictly scientific terms, with sustainable whale-harvesting as the goal (which is what IWC is supposed to be all about).

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Over 3 million wild kangaroos "harvested" each year in Australia vs thousands of whales caught by Japan. More than 1000 kangaroos are killed for each whale killed by Japanese.

I don't believe all "harvested" kangaroos are eaten by humans? Even with your Australian appetite, I don't think you can stomach 15 kangaroos per person per year! I agree, those are quite different situations.

No matter what you say, in the light of that kind of double standard, Japanese people will sense that it is at least partially motivated by prejudice. Opposition cases should be made on strictly scientific terms, with sustainable whale-harvesting as the goal (which is what IWC is supposed to be all about).

You guys seem to be totally ignoring what Sara and Rose are saying which is totally correct.

 

[centrajapan]

Australians can kill kangaroos and throw away the meat to rot because they are Australian but Japan can not kill whales in international waters to eat because whales are such beautiful creatures? Who can argue with such pragmatic well balanced views based on science and facts. Could you possibly understand that not all people look at whales in the saem manner as Australia does? If there are 700,000 minke whales and Japan takes 1,000. Australians can still look at the remainding 699,000 whales either on Discovery channel or from their whale safari boat.

15 kangaroos. There are 365 days in a year. Actually you only need to eat kangaroos everyday for a month then you are done. How big is a kangaroo? 10 kilo grams? Actually it is a lot. You have to eat 10 kilograms of kangaroos everyday for a month. Actually Australians should be eating kangaroo meat every day looking at how many they slaughter each year for fun.

It's kanagroo apartheitism. The symbol of Australia.

In international waters. What we need to take into account is stock numbers based on scientific findings. If you believe whaling is no longer needed then that decision is up to Japan. If you are against Japanese eating whales then the reasons should be based on scientific findings. That is the whole objective of IWC which Australia has voluntarily signed under.

 

[Sarapva]

You guys seem to be totally ignoring what Sara and Rose are saying which is totally correct.

Thank you - Yes, this discussion of kangaroos is getting tiring. It's whales we're discussing, it's Australia that has the authority in regard to kangaroos, and this is completely off topic!

What is the argument anyway? Japan is still whale hunting.

 

[centrajapan]

So it is worse to kill whales for food than to kill kangaroos for fun?

 

[Rose Selavey]

Over 3 million wild kangaroos "harvested" each year in Australia vs thousands of whales caught by Japan. More than 1000 kangaroos are killed for each whale killed by Japanese.
I don't believe all "harvested" kangaroos are eaten by humans? Even with your Australian appetite, I don't think you can stomach 15 kangaroos per person per year! I agree, those are quite different situations.
No matter what you say, in the light of that kind of double standard, Japanese people will sense that it is at least partially motivated by prejudice. Opposition cases should be made on strictly scientific terms, with sustainable whale-harvesting as the goal (which is what IWC is supposed to be all about).

I have never stated that the Kangaroos are consumed by only humans (go and look at previous threads). If it was America, Canada, France, Indonesia, Spain or even NZ going into Antarctic waters (a sanctuary for all animals and a place for research) to slaughter whales I would be against. I think those who believe it is racially motivated need to get out more.

 

[Sarapva]

If it was America, Canada, France, Indonesia, Spain or even NZ going into Antarctic waters (a sanctuary for all animals and a place for research) to slaughter whales I would be against. I think those who believe it is racially motivated need to get out more.

Well said, Rose! It's like a person going into their neighbor's yard and wreaking havoc - the neighbor comes out and says, "Get out of here! Stop doing that!" The person says, "You're discriminating against me because I'm black."

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

So it is worse to kill whales for food than to kill kangaroos for fun?

Whales and Kangaroos are very different scenarios as Rose and Sara explained, and could not put it better myself.

 

[caster51]

Whales and Kangaroos are very different scenarios as Rose and Sara explained, and could not put it better myself

it is same.
dont kill poor kangaroo

 

[centrajapan]

I'd say it is worse. Its much worse to kill kangaroos for fun then to kill whales for food. Australia has no right to condemn Japan on ethical grounds because they can't live up to the standard themselves. Actually their ethical stance is worse than that of Japan.

 

[kame]

We hunt tunas and salmons and other wild species in international waters, under appropriate international negotiations based on sustainability. So there is no justification not to allow whaling for reasons other than sustainability.

If anything, kangaroos are in a worse situation than whales because the Australians seem to think they OWN them and their fate, and there seems to be LESS chance of international intervention if any of them are endangered. After all, the reason that the kangaroo population exploded is because Australians killed all the predators that fed on kangaroos.

Well, for the country that let most mammalian species go extinct, the attitude of "we own animals that live on this continent" may not be surprising.

Kangaroos are not irrelevant to this discussion. Whaling relates to wildlife conservation and utilization in general and it is useful to discuss whales in comparison to other wildlife.

 

[Goldiegirl]

At least I have changed the hearts and minds of 3 Japanese people when it comes to "not" whaling. That's a start albeit it a small one.

Just because one country does something wrong doesn't give another country the right to do the same wrong. As my mother always taught us, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Pepe]

Australians should not kill kangaroos for fun. Thats just barbaric. If they kill it eat it atleast.

AFAIK 'roos are only culled or farmed ('roo steaks are gaining popularity There are too many 'roos in Oz, causing havoc in suburbs and even central cities.

Back to the discussion at hand - whales are a resource, and like any resource should be managed to sustainment. But it is wrong for any person (or nation) to impose its opinions on another - and claiming that hunting whales is wrong is nothing other than one persons opinion.

 

[Sarapva]

At least I have changed the hearts and minds of 3 Japanese people when it comes to "not" whaling. That's a start albeit it a small one.

Thank you, Goldiegirl! That's an accomplishment there, even to change the mind of one person.

Thank you also, Pepe - it certainly is just opinion, which we are all entitled to.

 

[kame]

I have never stated that the Kangaroos are consumed by only humans (go and look at previous threads). If it was America, Canada, France, Indonesia, Spain or even NZ going into Antarctic waters (a sanctuary for all animals and a place for research) to slaughter whales I would be against. I think those who believe it is racially motivated need to get out more.

At least you seem to have personal grudge against Japanese in that you call them imperialist pigs in response to a Norwegian's inflammatory remark.

Anyway, I said anti-whaling is motivated by "prejudice". Prejudice against people and culture that eat whales as food. You may or may not be one of them, but there are people who just despise the habit of eating whales regardless of where or how they are caught. That's a prejudice against whale-eating people and cultures.

If you are not opposed to whaling provided that certain conditions are met (like sustainability and limiting hunting in certain regions) I would say that you are not prejudicial in that regard, but you are just concerned about the practical implementation of whaling to preserve them. If you are against whaling at any condition like many people in this forum are, I would consider you culturely prejudiced (or what centrajapan calls "cultural imperialist").

Are you against whaling done outside your sanctuary too?

 

[Chi65]

What a joke. . .

Make up your boxes, Kame, like other targets.
Its the first time I openly boo a Japanese.

If you want my own points, that do not fit into either of your categories, you can do so here:
A Message from the People of Taiji, Japan
and further on.

And I always respected Japanese people and those from other countries, until they came with open violence and ignorance. . .

I am glad, I made many more good experiences in your native country, and will hold that deep love up. But that does not keep me away from shaking my head with wonder from one person now.

 

[centrajapan]

If you really respected the Japanese culture then you would respect the choice the Japanese take. Why is it worse to eat whale meat than beef? It might be to you but not Japanese people. In the end of the day it is the Japanese who should decide what they should eat and not Australians or Germans.

If one culture or country impose their habits onto an other against the will of the people of that country that becomes cultural imperialism.

Chi you are selfcontradicting yourself.

Do you eat meat and what kind of shoes do you wear?

 

[Chi65]

If you really respected the Japanese culture then you would respect the choice the Japanese take. Why is it worse to eat whale meat than beef? It might be to you but not Japanese people. In the end of the day it is the Japanese who should decide what they should eat and not Australians or Germans.
If one culture or country impose their habits onto an other that becomes cultural imperialism.
Chi you are selfcontradicting yourself.

Completely pointless and simply projected.
Maybe you finally start reading what I really wrote,
from the beginning, please, and everything:

A Message from the People of Taiji, Japan

 

[centrajapan]

It is not pointless. Please answer a simple question.

Do you eat meat and what kind of shoes do you wear?

As I already have stated 100 times. There are no environmental reasoning for why minke whales which are not endangered should not be hunted sustainably. Especially when compared with beef, prok or lamb which is less environmental friendly than whale meat.

 

[Chi65]

It is not pointless. Please answer a simple question.
Do you eat meat and what kind of shoes do you wear?

You did not relate to my writings at the first place and you know already , that I never said, that I am a vegetarian, mister ridiculous dictator.
you better read more properly.
Its still a pointless question only meant for puperty targeting.

 

[centrajapan]

I think, if some would just kill some for own use, it would be alright, but since its dependant on a much larger scale, and will accordingly grow, if let, its a very critical issue and should be watched on a larger scale too.

Sometimes something reaches the border of acceptances, and then it has to change, no matter, where and what.

That would be reasonable and carefull, not a point of keeping a tradition under all circumstances. As sorry as I am for them, and thats not just a word.

What is worn out, is worn out. They must find new ways for a living.

Well you ingore a couple of ecological realities here. The minke whale is not an endangered spiecies. It never has been an endangered spiecies. The ban on minke whale hunting has no environmental reasoning because minke whales are not endangered. You also ignore that other countries hunted whales for oil and not food. Why should Japan give up eating whales because other countries hunted whales for oil? Also. the whales which Japan wants to hunt for food are different than the whales which other countries hunted for oil YOu are mixing apples and oranges. And guess what? The whale spiecies which were hunted for oil. Japan has no intentions of huting them.

Whaling will not grow. The reason why Japan is doing research together with other whaling countries is to make sure that whales will not become endangered despite the hunt. Thats the whole point of the Scientific Research.

The number of whales which are allowed to be hunted is calculated by how big the stock is and how much the growth rate is.

As I have said 100 times already. The reasons why many countries oppose whaling is because those countries have no tradition in eating whale meat. Its a matter of cultural preference. Now those countries who have no tradition eating whale meat is imposing their cultural stance onto Japan without any scientific reasoning despite the fact that whale meat is more environmental friendly than eating lamb, pork and especially beef.

 

[Chi65]

As I have said 100 times already. The reasons why many countries oppose whaling is because those countries have no tradition in eating whale meat. Its a matter of cultural preference. Now those countries who have no tradition eating whale meat is imposing their cultural stance onto Japan without any scientific reasoning despite the fact that whale meat is more environmental friendly than eating lamb, pork and especially beef.

I ignore nothing and have read it all, also from others, young man.
And my words stay firm.
Its up to you to at least try to understand them, how they are written and meant, not the way you wish to twist them.

Maybe it works better without alcohol?

 

[centrajapan]

If countries oppose Japan on cultural preference then they are practicing cultural imperialism and you support that and that makes you a racist. That was my point. Some people fail to realize that they have racist attituded with or without alcohol.

 

[Chi65]

If countries oppose Japan on cultural preference then they are practicing cultural imperialism and you support that and that makes you a racist. That was my point. Some people fail to realize that they have racist attituded with or without alcohol.

Pure blind rubbish, as before. . .wake up or use your glasses, on your nose preferably.