are Americans innately racist?

[FinancialWar]

When Lance Armstrong is caught cheating, no one questions the integrity of his race or nationality. God forbid if Armstrong is a slant-eyed Chinese, heck even when a Chinese simply wins a gold metal in a sport usually dominated by Americans, that Chinese athlete would be accused of doping simply because she is Chinese, remember Ye Shiwen in London 2012?

From an Australian perspective, America is country that is hype-sensitive about racial equity, anything about race is a taboo, can't pain your face black for a comedy because it is "racist", can't put black people in Chicken ad because it is racist but it is acceptable in America to both openly and covertly suggest Asians are a less capable race, Goku is played by a white guy, Chan li is half-white, Japanese in Tekken movie are half-white, just gonna mix some whiteness in the lead character. Americans beat Asians in a sport, normal. Asians that beats American in sport is doping or underage, mocking Ching Chong accent on TV is fine but paint my face black would get me killed.

America, you suck.

 

[BrianLewis]

Your seriously saying Hollywood is representative of Americans in general? That's the funniest thing I have heard in a while.

 

[Hezam]

Is there dislike button ? we really need one.

FinancialWar, You are a big racist person, YOU suck.

 

[Mike Cash]

I think the last sentence is overboard, but otherwise he does have a point.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

All people are innately racist. The best simply learn to put these instinctive feelings aside when dealing with those who are different.

But everyone knows the Chinese are inferior beings who have to have their drug use closely monitored. They couldn't even be counted on to smoke their opium regularly until the Brits forced them to.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

All people are innately racist. The best simply learn to put these instinctive feelings aside when dealing with those who are different.

I don't think so.

We may have extremely negative or positive reactions to what we are not used to, but that does not make us all innately racist. For example, if a White person never saw a Black person ever, and vice-versa, it would be quite a shock to see one for the first time. Where that shock leads could be hate or it could be love.

But I would say that American culture is racist and tends to make people racist just for bringing up the race question all the damned time. The topic never leaves debate, and for thinking about it, Americans become racist. If you grew up in a place where all races mingled freely and very little thought was given to race, you would most likely not be racist. It would only be a few assorted nuts who would be.

But on this question, its hard to tell where the racism ends and the nationalism begins. Americans are being brainwashed against China, and it shows. The media is always harping on China being militaristic and trying to take over the world. Meanwhile, America has the most well funded military BY FAR in the world, America has bases very near China and all over the world, and America has an ingrained military culture with all those war movies, all that gun culture, and all that misguided admiration for ex-soldiers. America is the new Rome. America is in aggregate more militaristic than North Korea. America refuses to look in a mirror. Instead, it accuses China of all her own sins in the typical need of a militaristic culture to have an enemy to aim her guns at. China now fills the gap Russia vacated.

But yeah, I don't deny the racism. I might not state it exactly the same as FinancialWar, because he is as against America as brainwashed Americans are against China. But its all there, and you can see it if you are not in denial.

---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 ----------

Your seriously saying Hollywood is representative of Americans in general? That's the funniest thing I have heard in a while.

They might be representative of employers in America though. Its usually the power brokers we go after when we criticize a country isn't it?

 

[RickNZ]

It's hard to see anything good coming out of this thread

 

[Mike Cash]

Any time a program makes a trip to China Town or involves Asian-Americans I think "Here we go! The stereotype train has left the station!"

Get ready for inscrutable characters, pithy Confucian sayings, honorable-this, honorable-that, humble-the-other-thing, Tong wars, opium, stolen jade statues, gongs, bad accents, insularity, and the inevitable white leading character who has somehow managed to penetrate into and be semi-adopted by the community.

And I have heard broadcasts making fun of Asians and doing precisely the sort of ignorant, mocking ching-chong-ching-chong crap that FW talks about and which if it were the old stereotype black "mushmouth" crap instead would have the entire nation in an uproar over racial insensitivity. I've heard it done on shows by white hosts and by black hosts.

 

[Tamayo]

From an Australian perspective, America is country that is hype-sensitive about racial equity, anything about race is a taboo, can't pain your face black for a comedy because it is "racist", can't put black people in Chicken ad because it is racist

This, specifically, is something that bothers me very deeply about America. The "politically correct" movement is absolutely disgusting and delusional.

Goku is played by a white guy, Chan li is half-white, Japanese in Tekken movie are half-white, just gonna mix some whiteness in the lead character.

I think you may be paying these examples a little too much thought. Whether it's true or not that a lot of characters tend to be white, I don't think that reverse-sensitivity is going to help anything. I believe that people should be able to employ whomever they want for roles in acting, and for any job, for that matter. With that in mind, it really doesn't matter to me what color anyone is in the media.

Americans beat Asians in a sport, normal. Asians that beats American in sport is doping or underage

I don't know what you're specifically talking about, but it is somewhat of a pre-determined thing for certain races to win in certain sports. When has this happened?

mocking Ching Chong accent on TV is fine but paint my face black would get me killed.

The only part that I think is wrong with that is that the government, media, and stupid part of society think that black and Hispanic people need protection from "racism". While I understand that real racism is absolutely disgusting, I think that all races should be equally unprotected when it comes to jokes, so long as they're not actually racist.

Get ready for inscrutable characters, pithy Confucian sayings, honorable-this, honorable-that, humble-the-other-thing, Tong wars, opium, stolen jade statues, gongs, bad accents, insularity, and the inevitable white leading character who has somehow managed to penetrate into and be semi-adopted by the community.
And I have heard broadcasts making fun of Asians and doing precisely the sort of ignorant, mocking ching-chong-ching-chong crap that FW talks about and which if it were the old stereotype black "mushmouth" crap instead would have the entire nation in an uproar over racial insensitivity. I've heard it done on shows by white hosts and by black hosts.

To be honest, I'd have to say that of all the stereotypes people in this country have about other cultures, they're most justified in the ones about Asian countries. Keep in mind the word is justified, not correct. In my studies of Asian cultures, it's not so much that I see the stereotype in the culture itself, but I understand now that the lack of understanding is what causes it. As I understand it, the reason that people know so little about Asian countries is that there's hardly any overlapping culture to connect them. The languages are widely considered to be the most exotic, or weird/difficult, the societies themselves have wildly different behaviors and views, and to top it all off, we don't really have many good examples of actual Asian culture in America.

 

[FinancialWar]

Just look at the stats

Doping at the Olympic Games - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American guilty of doping

1972 Rick Demont
1976 Mark Cameron, Philippe Grippaldi
1992 Bonnie Dasse, Jud Logan
2000 Marion Jones, Antonio Pettigrew, Jerome Young
2004 Crystal Cox, Tyler Hamilton
2008 Courtney King
2012 Nicholas Delpopolo

Chinese guilty of doping

1992 Wu Dan

List of doping cases in sport - Wikipedia

United States 120 cases vs China 7 cases

Yet in the American (and some Western) media and average Americans perception, Chinese are a bigger cheaters in sport. I just can't figure out why the American media and coaches have the audacity to suspect Ye shiwen of doping and not Michael Phelps?

Have a look at the stats again, the amount of dopers of white descents compared to Asians descent.

 

[Tamayo]

Yet in the American (and some Western) media and average Americans perception, Chinese are a bigger cheaters in sport. I just can't figure out why the American media and coaches have the audacity to suspect Ye shiwen of doping and not Michael Phelps?

I've never even heard of these controversies, and I've been watching the Olympics religiously ever since I could remember. Are you sure it's not just what they think in Australia? I've never heard anything about most of these cases -- I'd have never guessed that anyone suspected foul play from the Chinese, specifically.

I know that people make cracks about the Chinese being the best at everything they do, but not because of cheating.

Have a look at the stats again, the amount of dopers of white descents compared to Asians descent.

I really think you're focusing a bit too much on color vs. color. I can agree with a lot of what you're saying to a certain extent, but keep in mind that comparing races is what got America into the racial mess it's in today.

 

[FinancialWar]

I think the last sentence is overboard, but otherwise he does have a point.

I apologise, I did went overboard. The Armstrong case makes me angry considering some of the biggest sporting cheats are Americans yet Chinese athletes are usually the one associated with cheating.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

I think the question should be, "Is American culture enamored with bigotry?"

Then I could simply say "yes". There are so many examples both past and present. America is always on the look-out for some one to point at, belittle, and accuse. Its so bad and so rife, it is simply amazing that America has not set up death camps for some group yet, although I suppose the slavery of Blacks in the 18th and 19th centuries were bad enough.

Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Asians in general, Blacks, gays, MAPs, communists, suspected communists, suspected witches, Native Americans, porn actors and actresses, Poles, Irish, Italians, Muslims, Catholics, Jews....America has a long rich history of bigotry. Ugly.

 

[FinancialWar]

I've never even heard of these controversies, and I've been watching the Olympics religiously ever since I could remember. Are you sure it's not just what they think in Australia? I've never heard anything about most of these cases -- I'd have never guessed that anyone suspected foul play from the Chinese, specifically.

No, it's not just Australia, it is Western media in general, and John Leonard's comment.

 

[ewww]

Mr. War,

why don't You tell us about age of chinese sportsmen. Looks like it is also could be considered as cheating.

David Flumenbaum: Scandal of the Ages: Documents Reveal Underage Chinese Gymnast

You are definitely right, statistically america prevails on dopin', but ... as we all know, china learns fast, and let's wait for a next olympic games, picture could change dramatically.

Yeah, america suck in many ways, but america is doing that pathetically-solemny with imperial gesture. Doesn't china want to dominate in that area too? Sure, it does. So ... why that's War?

 

[Tamayo]

I think the question should be, "Is American culture enamored with bigotry?"
Then I could simply say "yes". There are so many examples both past and present. America is always on the look-out for some one to point at, belittle, and accuse. Its so bad and so rife, it is simply amazing that America has not set up death camps for some group yet, although I suppose the slavery of Blacks in the 18th and 19th centuries were bad enough.

I think the issue may be with our extroverted culture. America is a very intense society in that we are highly critical of one another, sometimes for the better, and a lot of the time for the worse. Politics is a decent example, I suppose -- I've never known any other culture to have such heated debates and mud-slinging. Look at television. In America, people make livings out of criticizing one another and calling each other out.

After all is said and done, I think that freedom of speech is something that largely contributes to other societies' views of Americans. While I can say that there is an extreme amount of validity in the American stereotype, I also think that a bit of it is simply perceived.

Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Asians in general, Blacks, gays, MAPs, communists, suspected communists, suspected witches, Native Americans, porn actors and actresses, Poles, Irish, Italians, Muslims, Catholics, Jews....America has a long rich history of bigotry. Ugly.

Keep in mind though that America is a whole different kind of society than that of the many components that came together to create it. In many ways, I think that America is so centered on differences because we're a people that come from all over the Earth. Our history isn't only closely tied to the world because of the "world-police" issue, but because our people have come from every sort of society on Earth.

Of course, I'm not trying to justify any of the atrocities committed on and by one another in this country, but it makes a lot of sense to me that we have such an interesting past. After all, now that the world as a whole is a lot more civilized, our country has become a lot more accepting of different cultures and heritages. To a fault, in my opinion.

EDIT:

No, it's not just Australia, it is Western media in general, and John Leonard's comment.

That's The Young Turks, a network of douchebags. Is that where you got all of this?

 

[FinancialWar]

tamayo: don't you know how to do your own research? First you say you watch the Olympics religious yet, you haven't even heard of Ye shiwen who was on the news all the times after the 400m IM. Now you have the name, you still post here saying that you don't know anything about her, there is a thing called Google, search it up before posting again.

 

[Tamayo]

tamayo: don't you know how to do your own research? First you say you watch the Olympics religious yet, you haven't even heard of Ye shiwen who was on the news all the times after the 400m IM. Now you have the name, you still post here saying that you don't know anything about her, there is a thing called Google, search it up before posting again.

I'm sorry, but if Google is your go-to source of information on controversy, I think you have bigger things to worry about than your country's perceived racism against China. That's about as good as trying to gain life lessons from American TV.

I'm not saying that racism doesn't happen in America, because it does -- Racism, both in favor of and against races is a huge issue in this country, but as an American citizen, and as someone who has watched the Olympics their entire life, I can tell you that there isn't some huge bias against the Chinese in the Olympics (here, at least). When people talk about the Chinese here, it's usually either the sort of stereotype talk which was outlined earlier in this thread, or people are discussing the ridiculous precision and skill with which most Asians in general compose their work in life.

I'm just saying -- Considering the fact that I live in America, I would think I know a little more about the bias here than you would, especially given that your grand source of "American hypocrisy" is a group of douchebags you found through Google. The Young Turks is a show run by idiots, and it's somewhat of a travesty that anyone would make a connecting distinction between then and America as a whole just because they run a popular youtube channel.

 

[FinancialWar]

^ because subjective personal experience is more objective than secondary research...

 

[Tamayo]

^ because subjective personal experience is more objective than secondary research...

If you want to dismiss my 19 years of experience living in, studying and understanding my native culture because you think spending 5 minutes on Google is more conclusive, then be my guest. God forbid anyone disagree with the Australian's perception of America and all of the end-all, expert-level research you've been conducting about us.

Just don't be too surprised or offended when people think you're making things up about the culture of a country you don't live in, and apparently don't know much about.

 

[Mike Cash]

I'm 47 and agree with the general thrust of his position, if not the particulars.

From that 19 don't forget to subtract about the first half or so when your world didn't extend terribly far past the end of your nose.

 

[BrianLewis]

They might be representative of employers in America though. Its usually the power brokers we go after when we criticize a country isn't it?

Yeah, I was going to post about those Olympic judges probably being part of the 3% of the extremely wealthy that probably never get out of their house unless they run out of wine. People do tend to make the news by being rich and dumb, not really because they do much for society besides making us look bad.

The "politically correct" movement is absolutely disgusting and delusional.

I can't agree more.

Since the media talks about American cyclists and baseball players doping all year round, they might take the Olympics as an opportunity to talk about other countries.

 

[Hezam]

I apologise, I did went overboard. The Armstrong case makes me angry considering some of the biggest sporting cheats are Americans yet Chinese athletes are usually the one associated with cheating.

You can't apologize when the last sentence is still in your first post !

 

[Tamayo]

I'm 47 and agree with the general thrust of his position, if not the particulars.

I'm not saying that I disagree with the general thrust of his position. I have already said several times in this thread alone that he's spot on about some of the things that many Americans do, and that I agree with him.

From that 19 don't forget to subtract about the first half or so when your world didn't extend terribly far past the end of your nose.

Do you mean to dismiss any bit of what I've said just because of my age? The point wasn't "Look at me, I'm so old and I know everything about anything!!" My point is that he is making a bold criticism of America as a country because he thinks that some video he found on the internet represents the consensus of everyone who lives here. I've already said several times that The Young Turks in no way represent America, and I've tried a few times now to distance any connection between my country and that annoying group of people. What more can I possibly say in that regard? Just because some web show does everything they can to push their personal agenda on their viewers, it doesn't mean that America has this ridiculous prejudice against China in sports.

I simply said that there isn't some unspoken nation-wide hatred toward China for being suspected of foul play in the Olympics, and he's essentially just lashing back and saying, "No! I found an article online! You do hate China!" What if I used the experience I've had in this thread as a premise to start whining that all Australians hate America? That wouldn't be very logical, now would it?

Since the media talks about American cyclists and baseball players doping all year round, they might take the Olympics as an opportunity to talk about other countries.

THANK YOU.

FinancialWar: If you scroll up a bit, you'll see that I mentioned this exact sort of thing already. American media is incredibly critical, not only of other countries, but of itself. If you've watched any amount of American media outside of this issue in the Olympics, you'd know that television is littered with shows and documentaries, one right after the other about scandal in America. For every finger an American has pointed at someone from another country, there have been thousands of AMERICAN fingers pointing at other Americans.

I tried telling you before -- It's not that we hate China because the issue was brought up, it's just how our media is.

 

[Macrobiotic]

Race is to a large part an invisible thing. Similar "racial types" exist over ethnical boundaries. Quite a lot of "white" people who have asian doppelgangers. Race is more than skin deep. It's about blood type, bone structure, temperament, what food you're best suited to, what kind of work you are best at etc etc...
I read people I meet by their face, bone structure, voice, smell, personality and many times I can guess both their blood type as well as what year they were born and this has nothing to do with exterior race, "what society classifies as race".

Part of this is extreme pseudo science but there are also DNA tests lately which has proven that for example some scandinavians actually are related to native americans way back and that berber people of north Africa are related to lapid people of northern Sweden. People moved around a lot and acclimatized before the cultures and races as we know them over the past 5-10 000 years formed. People's true race must be determined individually based on this ancient heritage. A society which actually took each individuals "type" into consideration would be a more efficient society.