綿にて受け / しまた / 何千人もの人々 / いざ / まさか

Hello,


1. 茶碗を投げれば綿にて受けよ。

Translation given: "A soft answer is a specific cure of anger."

How does 綿にて受け work, and what does it literally mean? "If you throw away a bowl/teacup, then ... ???"


2. 「あの６人はどこ行った？」「エスケープしまた」

Translation given: "Where have those six got to?" "They've escaped."

Is しまた just a typo for しました?


3. 何千人もの人々が広場にひしめき合っていた。

Translation given: "Thousands of people were milling around in the square."

Is 何千人もの人々 composed of 何千人の人々 with も inserted? If so, does も mean something like "as many as"?


4.
A: でも、人間、いざ自分が事件にあわないかぎり、わりに のんきなものですね。
B: ええ、まさか自分はと思うんですね。

Translation given:

A: But people are pretty easy-going — until they actually meet up with an accident, that is.
B: Uh-huh. People always figure their own lives are safe.

a) In the first sentence, what sense does いざ have?

b) In the second sentence, what sense does まさか have? (I can, of course, look up まさか and いざ in a dictionary, but I still don't get any real idea of what they are adding in this case.)

c) Presumably there are there some omitted and assumed words after 自分は? It seems quite a lot to expect the listener to assume?

hey eeky, do you mind me asking from where you are translating?

staren said:

hey eeky, do you mind me asking from where you are translating?

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The sentences that I ask about on this forum are usually either from some textbook that I am using, or they are example sentences that I downloaded from Tatoeba: Collecting example sentences. Currently I am working through "Aozora: Intermediate-Advanced Japanese Communication" (Fujii and Sugawara), but the textbook sentences that I am currently asking about are from "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" (Mizutani). (This is because I mark the passages I don't understand, and a delay has built up between marking them and asking about them.)

1)
にて is the etymology of で.

Catch it with cotton if they throw away a bowl/teacup.

2)
Yes.

3)

５ 驚き・感動の意を表す。「この本、三千円―するんだっ て」

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も - goo辞書

4)
いざ自分が事件にあわないかぎり would be comprehensible but sounds a bit odd to me. I would say いざ自分が事件にあう（という）場合でない限り instead.

a)
いざ自分が事件にあう場合
When people are actually about to meet up with an accident

b) c)
They thought that it's impossible for them (to meet up with an accident)/there was no way for them (to meet up with an accident).

Thank you!

(I remember にて now...)

eeky said:

The sentences that I ask about on this forum are usually either from some textbook that I am using, or they are example sentences that I downloaded from Tatoeba: Collecting example sentences. Currently I am working through "Aozora: Intermediate-Advanced Japanese Communication" (Fujii and Sugawara), but the textbook sentences that I am currently asking about are from "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" (Mizutani). (This is because I mark the passages I don't understand, and a delay has built up between marking them and asking about them.)

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Do you use "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" for self study or in a class? If it is for self study would you recommend it? I'm in need of a good textbook.

staren said:

Do you use "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" for self study or in a class? If it is for self study would you recommend it? I'm in need of a good textbook.

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I am self-studying. I would not fall over myself to recommend "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" (Mizutani). I found it quite heavy-going (and I don't mean just because the Japanese is quite advanced, though that's true too), and the exercises seemed dull and repetitive. I actually prefer the Aozora book that I mentioned. It's really designed for class study, and some of the exercises involve things like group discussion and role-play, but there is so much useful reading material for the self-studier too, and lots of recorded audio (scripts printed in the book) that you can download from the website, so the presence of some class-oriented exercises doesn't bother me. It's totally in Japanese (no English anywhere). I'm not sure what level you're at, but if you've only been studying for a couple of months, for example, you will probably find it too advanced. It also uses kanji pretty freely, usually with no furigana. My kanji recognition is strong for my general language level, so I can manage with this, but if you only know a few kanji then it would be quite hard going I think. One negative is that the production quality is quite poor, and the "artwork" is also some of the poorest quality I have seen anywhere, but, hey, I didn't buy it for that!

I listed some other books I have used at this post. I have also just bought "Intermediate Japanese" by Michael J Kluemper and Lisa Berkson, which is a big thick colour book with comic strips and stuff, and quite a lot of English text, but I have not started it yet so can't really offer an opinion. Although some intermediate textbooks claim to be an "everything you need" solution, that will magically take you from beginner level to proficient reader in twelve chapters, this is impossible in my opinion. I think, for someone self-studying like me, you just need as much intermediate-level material as possible, which is why I buy so many books. (I do also sometimes try to read "real" Japanese, like on websites and stuff, but generally I get demoralised because there is so much I don't understand!)

eeky said:

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Oh, I actually mixed up the books. I thought you were talking about An integrated approach to intermediate japanese. The names are quite similar. But from that link you provided to your other post I can see you have used that as well and you seemed yo have liked it.
I don't really know how to specify my level, maybe like trying to become intermediate? Would think I am a bit above beginner at least.

But the other book "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" also sounds interesting. I guess that is at a higher level from what you describe? But I think the only Japanese part sounds a bit difficult... There often are class exercises which seems logical. It was the same in the Genki books.

staren said:

Oh, I actually mixed up the books. I thought you were talking about An integrated approach to intermediate japanese. The names are quite similar. But from that link you provided to your other post I can see you have used that as well and you seemed yo have liked it.
I don't really know how to specify my level, maybe like trying to become intermediate? Would think I am a bit above beginner at least.

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I would definitely recommend "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese" (Miura and McGloin) above "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" (Mizutani). The former was the first intermediate book I tried after completing a beginner's course, and I got on fairly well with it.

staren said:

But the other book "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" also sounds interesting. I guess that is at a higher level from what you describe? But I think the only Japanese part sounds a bit difficult...

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I think you are mixing up the books again? "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" contains full English translations and English grammar notes. Aozora is the one I mentioned with no English at all...

eeky said:

I think you are mixing up the books again? "Intermediate Japanese: An Integrated Course" contains full English translations and English grammar notes. Aozora is the one I mentioned with no English at all...

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Didn't mix them up but I misread your previous post I'm afraid. But now I'm with you . But all of those are textbooks? All containing grammar explanations? Is it really needed to complement with so many books? Maybe you just like having many examples.
But I might have a look at buying "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese". I think it would fit my level pretty well.

I'm also looking at Tobira Gateway to Advanced Japanese-Learning Through Content and Multimedia Textbook (上級へのとびら). Have you heard anything about it or maybe even read it?

staren said:

But all of those are textbooks? All containing grammar explanations? Is it really needed to complement with so many books? Maybe you just like having many examples.

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I think all the books I mentioned here and in the other post have some grammatical examples and explanations, but none of them are heavily focussed on grammar only. I buy them because I want lots of intermediate-level reading material, not because I want to read the same grammar examples explained in ten different ways. Mostly you get texts and dialogues, and then some explanations of some of the patterns and expressions used. Obviously there are other books that are much more grammar-oriented. I have "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" (Makino and Tsutsui), which other people seem to rate, but I haven't found useful at all. I find the dictionary-style organisation odd, and the coverage too limited. Whatever point I'm unsure of, it seems almost guaranteed that I won't find the answer in there.

staren said:

I'm also looking at Tobira Gateway to Advanced Japanese-Learning Through Content and Multimedia Textbook (http://tobiraweb.9640.jp/). Have you heard anything about it or maybe even read it?

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Nope, I've not come across that one yet.