篇・編 question

[killerinsidee]

I have some questions about these. I'm pretty sure this was answered before, but since the forum text is a bit messed up at the moment, it's kind of hard to find.

1. Are they interchangeable?
2. From what I've seen in the dictionaries, they can be used to mean: 1. a volume of a book (book series, multiple/separate books) or 2. chapter(bigger than 章/節) of a single book. Correct?
3. I saw 「三 編 / 篇 に分かれた小説」as an example, is this ambiguous? If what I wrote above is correct, it could mean - a single novel split into 3 chapters/sections or novels (novel series, etc.) split into 3 separate books/volumes? I would think it's the former, but then I saw 「全三編の小説」. Doesn't that have the same meaning as 全三巻の小説？
Similarly, I found http://www.amazon.co.jp/レオナルド・ダ・ヴィンチ論-全三篇-ポール・ヴァレリー/dp/458228504X and http://www.amazon.co.jp/国史大系-続徳川実紀-第四篇-新訂増補-新装版/dp/4642003541/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412834554&sr=1-6&keywords=国史大系 続徳川実紀
No idea if the former is 3 separate books, something like a full/complete set (全 indicating that) or just 1 book with 3 sections. The latter seems to be "1 volume" in a series.

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
As for the meaning "chapter/volume", yes.

2)
Correct, but 編/篇 can be multiple/separate books when it means "chapter/section". As you can see below, each 編 has five volumes.

占領期雑誌資料大系 文学編 全5巻
第1巻 戦争と平和の境界, 第2巻 表現される戦争と占領,,,,
岩波書店

占領期雑誌資料大系 大衆文化編 全5巻
第1巻 虚脱からの目覚め, 第2巻 デモクラシー旋風,,,,
岩波書店

3)
Therefore the answer is no. 全三編の小説 can be （各編上下巻）全六巻の小説, for instance.

 

[killerinsidee]

Thanks for the help.
I understand the meaning in 2), but I'm not clear on 3) "全三編の小説 can be （各編上下巻）全六巻の小説, for instance." part :/ . Could you explain a bit more please? Does it mean that 全三編の小説 can only mean 3x編 = 6x巻 (volumes of) novels (各編上下巻=each 編 has 2 volumes) or any other number of 巻 like in 2)? It can't mean be "(split into)3 chapters of a single book"? Maybe it's because of 全. Does t make any difference, other than "full/complete"? 三編に分かれた小説 vs 全三編の小説.
I'm gonna go crazy with these counters some day

 

[Toritoribe]

全三編の小説 has nothing to do with "the number of volumes". It can be ANY number; 全一巻の小説, 全二巻の小説, 全三巻の小説, 全四巻の小説, 全五巻の小説, 全六巻の小説, 全七巻の小説,,,,. The followings are all 全三編の小説. (The compositions such like 全三編全二巻 or 全三編全四巻 would be not so common, though.)

an example of 全六巻
指輪物語全三編各編上下巻全六巻 旅の仲間編上下全二巻, 二つの塔編上下全二巻, 王の帰還編上下全二巻
(i.e. six volumes of 旅の仲間編上巻, 旅の仲間編下巻, 二つの塔編上巻, 二つの塔編下巻, 王の帰還編上巻 and 王の帰還編下巻)

an example of 全二巻
指輪物語全三編上下全二巻 上巻旅の仲間編・二つの塔編(Two chapters are in a single volume.), 下巻王の帰還編

an example of 全四巻
指輪物語全三編全四巻 旅の仲間編全一巻、二つの塔編全一巻、王の帰還編上下全二巻
(i.e. four volumes of 旅の仲間編, 二つの塔編, 王の帰還編上巻 and 王の帰還編下巻)


三編に分かれた小説 only means "a single novel split into three chapters/sections".
全三編の小説 has the same meaning as 三編に分かれた小説, but it also can be "three different novels in a book/book series", since 編 is also used as a counter for novel/poem/essay. レオナルド・ダ・ヴィンチ論-全三篇 is the latter one (not 小説 but 評論, though).
三編の小説 is "three different novels". 編 is a counter here.