"私に勝てるとでも思って？" What is this. I don't even.

[LewiiG]

"私に勝てるとでも思って？"

I mean, I guess it's along the lines of:

"do you think you can beat me" and that the でも is "even" so:

"do you even think that you can beat me?" (I just don't think I have ever seen でも in a place like this)

But why "思って？"? In what kind of way is the te form being used, and what kind of question is it as there is a question mark.

よろしくお願いします

 

[Perezard]

your guess is right. it loosely translates to "do you even think that you can beat me? (how can you think of such thing)" and about the 思って？ im not really sure. it could be the って to phrase the previous 私に勝てるとでも思う. im learning japanese not with grammar but with its usage.

 

[nnnaaa]

"思って？" is one of those expressions that today nobody actually uses in the real world. It is a special way to end the sentence used by women's spoken language, in the old days, early to mid Showa era I guess? We sometimes see the similar kind of womanly endings of the sentences in a bit out-of-date translations (e->J) done in Showa era or earlier.
Similar type of phrase we sometimes see is "良くってよ。" meaning "良い（よ、わよ）。", or "良くって？" meaning "良い（ですか）？"

Some of those expressions are listed here:
(sorry i cannot for some reason create a direct link to a Japanese wiki page, so please select Japanese page from the following corresponding English page)
Gender differences in spoken Japanese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I cannot explain this based on grammar. We just come across those expressions once in a while.

 

[LewiiG]

your guess is right. it loosely translates to "do you even think that you can beat me? (how can you think of such thing)"

Alright thanks. I thought so, I just didn't know weather me not understanding the 思って? would make me misunderstand the whole thing.

"思って？" is one of those expressions that today nobody actually uses in the real world. It is a special way to end the sentence used by women's spoken language, in the old days, early to mid Showa era I guess? We sometimes see the similar kind of womanly endings of the sentences in a bit out-of-date translations (e->J) done in Showa era or earlier.
Similar type of phrase we sometimes see is "良くってよ。" meaning "良い（よ、わよ）。", or "良くって？" meaning "良い（ですか）？"

Oh I see, thanks. That makes perfect sense. I never would have known that myself. So, そのことを教えてくれてありがとうございます

 

[Toritoribe]

"私に勝てるとでも思って？"

I mean, I guess it's along the lines of:

"do you think you can beat me" and that the でも is "even" so:

"do you even think that you can beat me?" (I just don't think I have ever seen でも in a place like this)

But why "思って？"? In what kind of way is the te form being used, and what kind of question is it as there is a question mark.

よろしくお願いします

Just for confirmation, isn't there any possibility that it's an inversion, for instance "なぜそんなことをしたの？私に勝てるとでも思って？" ?


As for でも, that's not "even" in this case. See the explanation in a dictionary quoted below. It's hard to translate into English, but close to the nuance of "or something".(Maybe you've come across an expression such like お茶でも飲もうか?)

[物事をはっきりと言わず、一例として挙げる意を表す。 「けが―したら大変だ」「兄に―相談するか」

でも［接助係助］の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

 

[LewiiG]

Just for confirmation, isn't there any possibility that it's an inversion, for instance "なぜそんなことをしたの？私に勝てるとでも思って？"?

It was a standalone sentence. But out of interest, what would you say if it was "なぜそんなことをしたの？私に勝てるとでも思って？"? What changes?

As for でも, that's not "even" in this case. See the explanation in a dictionary quoted below. It's hard to translate into English, but close to the nuance of "or something".(Maybe you've come across an expresssion such like お茶でも飲もうか?)


でも［接助係助］の意味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書

Yeah, I remember something about でも like that. I can understand it with your expression, casually suggesting an example, but as for my sentence, I think it has the same basic meaning with the "nonchalant" attitude, and sort of being sarcastic because of the speakers confidence in being a better fighter. Therefore does this でも's casual tone make for a mockery of the opponent?

 

[Toritoribe]

It was a standalone sentence. But out of interest, what would you say if it was "なぜそんなことをしたの？私に勝てるとでも思って？" ? What changes?

In the sentence 私に勝てるとでも思ってそんなことをしたの？, 思って is the -te form indicating the reason/cause of the main clause.

Yeah, I remember something about でも like that. I can understand it with your expression, casually suggesting an example, but as for my sentence, I think it has the same basic meaning with the "nonchalant" attitude, and sort of being sarcastic because of the speakers confidence in being a better fighter. Therefore does this でも's casual tone make for a mockery of the opponent?

Yeah, it does have "sarcastic" or "mockery" tone.
This usage of the -the form is used only by female, as nnnaaa-san pointed out correctly, but I think this is from a shortened version of 私に勝てるとでも思っているの？ Just 私に勝てるとでも？ is also used as the same meaning by both male and female.

 

[LewiiG]

In the sentence 私に勝てるとでも思ってそんなことをしたの？, 思って is the -te form indicating the reason/cause of the main clause.

Oh right yes of course. So that's what you meant by inversion Thanks.

but I think this is from a shortened version of 私に勝てるとでも思っているの？ Just 私に勝てるとでも？ is also used as the same meaning by both male and female.

That's what I thought at first too, but I wasn't sure.

Thank you Toritoribe for the extra information