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磨いてりや / 隠しきってる / ふと気がつく / 小さい時

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eeky

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Hi


1. 「名前のところについたあのネトネトを一時間も磨いて りや、いやでも名前を覚えるさ」

Is 磨いてりや = 磨いていれば?


2. 「魔力を隠してるとしたら、完壁に隠しきってるよ」

Is this きってる as in 切っている?


3. 何も書いてないことは百も承知なのに、ふと気がつくと ハリーは何気なく日記を取り上げて、白紙のページをめくっていることが多かった。

I'm having a slight problem with ふと気がつく. I believe that ふと here should mean something like "casually" or "without realising", yet 気がつく seems to mean almost the opposite, so I don't really see how they are compatible.


4. リドルが小さい時の友達で、ほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前のような気さえした。

a) Does 小さい時 refer to the time when the person having these thoughts was small (as opposed to the time when リドル was small)?

b) Is this で as in the copula form?

c) Is リドル the subject of 行ってしまった?
 
1)
Yes, it's 磨いてりゃ, though.

2)
Yes.

3)
He suddenly realized that he had started turning pages without realising.

4) a)
when Riddle was young

b)
Yes.

c)
名前 is the subject.
 
Thanks Toritoribe

3) So ふと means suddenly here? Does 気がつくと mean "when he noticed / became aware of what he was doing"?

4) Sorry, I didn't ask the correct question for (c), but I am trying to understand the connection, grammatical and/or semantic, between the parts

リドルが小さい時の友達で

and

ほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前のような気さえした。

The overall structure of the sentence defeats me.

(Btw, in English too, "small" can mean "young".)
 
3)
Yeah, that's right.

4)
リドルが小さい時の友達で therefore 名前がほとんど記憶のかなたに行ってしまった makes sense, maybe?

And sorry about "small", again. :
 
4) Does リドルが小さい時の友達で mean "Riddle was (a) 小さい時の友達"?
 
The one in the topic/The one who had the name was one of Riddle's friends when he(= Riddle) was small.
 
Groan ... I am totally and utterly lost with this sentence. Doesn't 名前 refer to リドル?
 
That's Riddle's friend's name, which mentioned previously perhaps?

EDIT:
Sorry, I WAS COMPLETELY wrong. I've read that part just now and realized that the subject is Harry, Harry thinks Riddle might be one of Harry's friends when Harry was small, and 名前 refers to "Riddle". Thus, you are correct.

I don't mean to make an excuse, but ～はリドルが小さい時の友達で、、、 is a typical structure explaining about the topic. I thought your quotation had this structure...
 
OK, cool, now we're on the same wavelength could I confirm the grammatical structure?

Does リドルが小さい時の友達で mean:

リドルが [小さい時の友達] だ, i.e. Riddle is (a) 小さい時の友達?

And then だ is changed to で to connect grammatically with the rest of the sentence?
 
Yes, and plus, リドルが is also the subject of ほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前（だ）. This is another excuse, but if I were the translator, I would put the comma after リドルが, not 友達で, since リドルが is the subjects of the both clauses.

リドルが、小さい時の友達でほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前のような気さえした。
 
Thanks, you've answered the next question I was going to ask. So is the following grammatical?

リドルがほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前のような気さえした。

What about this: ?

リドルがほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前。
 
Yes for the former question. As for the latter one, リドル can't be the subject of 行ってしまった, thus, it doesn't make much sense as a noun phrase or it's incomplete as a sentence(lack of the main verb, adjective or copula).
 
Toritoribe said:
it's incomplete as a sentence(lack of the main verb, adjective or copula).
Click to expand...

So in the sentence:

リドルがほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前のような気さえした。

What is the verb governed by リドルが?
 
The predicative is a na-adjective よう（だ）. ような is the attributive form which is used to be connected to a noun 気.

リドルが（～名前の）ようだ
Riddle seems/sounds like a name that ~.

And this whole clause modifies 気さえした.

Harry even felt that Riddle seemed a name that~.
 
OK, thanks, I think I understand it now!

This sentence has been a lot of trouble for me.
 
It's understandable you feel "trouble". The senence is indeed a bit ungrammatical (unlike 大ビーカー one, this sentence makes enough sense, though). How about this? Isn't it easier to understand, maybe?

リドルが、小さい時の友達の、ほとんど記憶のかなたに行ってしまった名前のような気さえした。

In the above sentence, 小さい時の友達の modifies 名前, so the meaning is more clear. The reason the meaning of the original sentence is unclear would be, I think, that リドル refers to a person in the former clause リドルが小さい時の友達（だ）, whereas リドル is just a name in the latter clause ほとんど記憶のかなたに行 ってしまった名前のよう（だ）. They are the same リドル, but what they express are actually different.
 
I think also, for me, a problem is that I am expecting リドル to be the subject of a verb in:

リドルが ... ほとんど記憶のかなたに行ってしまった名前のような気さえした

I understand your explanation above, but still the structure seems unfamiliar to me.
 
Yeah, that's understandable, too. In the structure "a person + が + modifying clause + noun", it would be more common that が indicates the subject of the modifying clause, e.g. "ハリーが忘れ去ってしまった名前".
Another point would be that ほとんど記憶のかなたに行ってしまった is not a description about the subject リドル, and furthermore the possessor of the memory ハリー (ハリーの記憶のかなたに行ってしまった) is omitted. (Although it's because the possessor is obvious from the context, of course.)
 
Apropos of ようだ -> ような, could you remind me which forms of the copula (if any) can come directly before a noun to modify it? For example, are forms like ... だ気, ... だった気, etc. ever grammatically possible? (Not necessarily with 気, but with any suitable noun.) Sorry if I have asked a similar question before.

Also -- and I think you have answered this already really, but I would just like to double-check if I may -- could you confirm that the following is a valid sentence by itself:

リドルが（～名前の）ようだ。
 
だ can't be connected to any noun. である or の is used instead. The only exception is before の, such like ので, のに or the explanatory の. な is used in theses cases.
Unlike だ, だった can be used for any noun.

As for ような, よう is treated as a na-adjective, as I wrote in this thread.

Yes for your second question.
 
OK, thanks, and just one last question please. Can you provide any other simple examples (if they exist), of sentences of the form:

XがYだ。

that can convert to make a noun phrase like this (Z is a noun):

XがYなZ

but that don't use ようだ／な.
 
部屋がきれいだ。
部屋がきれいなホテル

I think ～ような気がする is a bit special. It's almost the same as just ～ようだ in meaning, similar to ～ように思える, ～ように見える or ～ように感じる.

As for リドルが（～）名前のようだ, another interpretation that リドルが（～）名前だ is a noun sentence and this sentence is modifying よう（だ） by changing だ to の. It might be close to "Riddle seems a name~" vs. "It seems that Riddle is a name~" in English. The meaning is the same anyway, as you can see, though.
 
Toritoribe said:
部屋がきれいだ。
部屋がきれいなホテル
Click to expand...
I see. I guess this pattern, XがYだ -> XがYなZ, is, more or less by definition, limited to cases where Y can be a な-adjective, yes?
 
Yes, except when Z is の (e.g. リドルが記憶のかなたに行ってしまった名前なので), as I wrote. Grammatically, this の belongs to nouns. (It's called 形式名詞.)
 
OK, thanks, it has been useful for me.
 
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