何かあったろうか

[jellofish]

何かあったろうか

Is it a contraction of 何かあっただろうか

 

[Glenn]

Yes.

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[jellofish]

Yes.

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Thank you Glenn

 

[Toritoribe]

何かあったろうか
Is it a contraction of 何かあっただろうか:?

It's more likely "あった + the classical auxiliary verb ろう(the equivalent to だろう in modern Japanese)" than the contraction of あっただろう. (Therefore あったろうか sounds more bookish.) The meaning is same, though.

 

[jellofish]

It's more likely "あった + the classical auxiliary verb ろう(the equivalent to だろう in modern Japanese)" than the contraction of あっただろう. (Therefore あったろうか sounds more bookish.) The meaning is same, though.

Thank you once again Tori san

So i am guessing that あるだろう = あろう
あっているだろう = あっていろう :nailbiting:

ｂｔｗ, ろう is a verb

 

[Toritoribe]

So i am guessing that あるだろう = あろう
あっているだろう = あっていろう

Yes, あろう means あるだろう. But, actually, あろう is not "あ + ろう" but the euphonic change of あらむ; "the crassical pre-nai form of the classical verb あり + the classical auxiliary verb む which shows the speaker's guess."
あらむ --> あらう --> あろう

あっていよう is correct. The auxiliary verb よう is generally used for ichidan verbs like いる or irregular verbs, instead of ろう.

恐らく答えはあっていよう ＝ 多分答えはあっている だろう

When ろう(らむ) is used, the form should be あひてゐるらむ（あいているらん）. But no one used such forms in these days, since it's too old.

ｂｔｗ, ろう is a verb

ろう is the euphonic change of らむ, as same as "あらむ <--> あろう."

The classical Japanese is a bit complicated.

 

[Glenn]

It's more likely "あった + the classical auxiliary verb ろう(the equivalent to だろう in modern Japanese)" than the contraction of あっただろう.

Ah, so this is あったらむ→あったろう, then?

The classical Japanese is a bit complicated.

同感。

Related question: what about だったろう? I don't suppose that came about from something like にてありたらむ, huh? Actually, I can see that happening. にて→んて→んで→で, ありた→あった, らむ→らう→ろう, via phonetic changes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that was the process.

 

[Toritoribe]

らむ is a relatively old auxiliary verb, and basically used only with the present form, I believe.
The reason why I thought ～たろう isn't from ～ただろう is that ～るだろう or "the present form of a verb + だろう" never change to ～るろう.

Oh, wait! You've already got the answer!!

～たろう = "～たり + む" or ～たらむ
ありてあらむ/ありたらむ --> あったろう

I suppose だったろう is also on this line.

 

[jellofish]

Tori san, You are very knowledgeable:sorry:

Would it be difficult to tell whether it is 食べましょう or 食べるだろう when using 食べよう?

 

[Glenn]

m of a verb + だろう" never change to ～るろう.
Oh, wait! You've already got the answer!!
～たろう = "～たり + む" or ～たらむ
ありてあらむ/ありたらむ --> あったろう
I suppose だったろう is also on this line.

Ah, so that would make だろう from にてあらむ, via the sound changes above. Cool.

 

[Glenn]

Tori san, You are very knowledgeable:sorry:
Would it be difficult to tell whether it is 食べましょう or 食べるだろう when using 食べよう?

食べましょう and 食べよう are the same, just different levels of politeness. To answer what I think your question is, generally 食べよう will mean "I will eat X" when you're the subject, and it will mean "someone will probably eat X" when anyone else is the subject.

私は１時にご飯を食べよう（と思っている）。
I'm going to eat at one o'clock. (I'm thinking I'll eat at one o'clock.)

けいこはこのケーキを食べよう。
Keiko will probably eat this cake.

 

[Ben Bullock]

To answer what I think your question is, generally 食べよう will mean "I will eat X" when you're the subject, and it will mean "someone will probably eat X" when anyone else is the subject.
...
けいこはこのケーキを食べよう。
Keiko will probably eat this cake.

食べるだろう would mean that, but for what it's worth I've never heard of たべよう to carry that meaning. I tried searching on Google for similar examples, but every example I found ended with とする:
ケーキを食べようとする。

 

[jellofish]

Thanks Glenn and Ben!

Here is a new discussion topic:

分かんない vs. 分からん

Which one do you commonly use?

Why?

 

[Ben Bullock]

Thanks Glenn and Ben!
Here is a new discussion topic:
分かんない vs. 分からん
Which one do you commonly use?
Why:?

I don't use either, I use わからない or わかりません.

 

[jellofish]

I don't use either, I use わからない or わかりません.

I see

But do you know what is the difference between 分かんない and 分からん

 

[Ben Bullock]

I see
But do you know what is the difference between 分かんない and 分からん

No, I don't.

 

[Elizabeth]

食べるだろう would mean that, but for what it's worth I've never heard of たべよう to carry that meaning. I tried searching on Google for similar examples, but every example I found ended with とする:
ケーキを食べようとする。

I have also seen examples of よう as an auxilliary verb, mostly in written language, to mean various shades of "probably, should, likely, etc." Perhaps related to であろう (with na adj) and まい in t he negative ??

 

[Ashikaga]

Thanks Glenn and Ben!
Here is a new discussion topic:
分かんない vs. 分からん
Which one do you commonly use?
Why?

分かんない is more commonly used at least in the Kanto region. It is used by everyone from small children to old folks, male and female.

 

[Ben Bullock]

I have also seen examples of よう as an auxilliary verb, mostly in written language, to mean various shades of "probably, should, likely, etc." Perhaps related to であろう and まい in t he negative ??

Could you or someone give a specific example of it?

 

[Glenn]

食べるだろう would mean that, but for what it's worth I've never heard of たべよう to carry that meaning. I tried searching on Google for similar examples, but every example I found ended with とする:
ケーキを食べようとする。

Yeah, I can't really recall having heard this usage with 食べる, but I went with it because it was the verb in question. I guess that usage would be a bit stiff. I probably should have changed the verb.

Could you or someone give a specific example of it?

From 広辞苑:
秋には実もなろう。

From 大辞泉:
この仕事がかたづくのは夕方になろう

Interesting that both use なる, although it's 生る in the first one and 成る in the second. Still, it makes me wonder if this is mostly used with non-volitional verbs, but I seem to remember having heard it used with volitional verbs before.

 

[jellofish]

What about...

この仕事が出来るのではなかろうか

なかろう is derived from which word?

 

[Glenn]

ない. It's actually in the definition for う that I linked to above. Basically the かろう is the adjective version of だろう, and you replace い with かろう. Here's another example:

必要の品なら注文してよかろう。
If it's a necessary item order it.

よかろう comes from よい (which is usually いい when it isn't inflected).

春が来ても何がうれしかろうか。
What's so great about spring coming?

This one is from うれしい.

 

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, I can't really recall having heard this usage with 食べる, but I went with it because it was the verb in question. I guess that usage would be a bit stiff. I probably should have changed the verb.
From 広辞苑:
秋には実もなろう。
From 大辞泉:
この仕事がかたづくのは夕方になろう
Interesting that both use なる, although it's 生る in the first one and 成る in the second. Still, it makes me wonder if this is mostly used with non-volitional verbs, but I seem to remember having heard it used with volitional verbs before.

I'm probably remembering something off here, but the よう form after a Noun + ptl. also always translates as "certainly," "naturally" or "a matter of course" as opposed to "probably" or "likely" etc ? Or is that only with a volitional verb ?

 

[Toritoribe]

よう

２ 推量・想像の意を表す。「会議では多くの反論が出されよう」
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なお、2は現代語では、ふつう「だろう」を用いる。

サービス終了のお知らせ
example with 食べる
幾分細かくしてやりさえすれば、赤子でも難なく食べよう。 ＝ 少し細かくしてやるだけで、赤ちゃんでも簡単に食べるだろう。
(食べられよう might be more natural, though.)


まい

１ 打消しの推量の意を表す。…ないだろう。
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現代語では、1には「ないだろう」-----を用いるのが普通で、「まい」が用いられることは少なくなっている。

サービス終了のお知らせ

貴様、よもや敵ではあるまいな？ ＝ お前、まさか敵じゃないだろうな？

分かんない vs. 分からん
Which one do you commonly use?
Why:?

I think old people don't use 分かんない in western Japan. 分からん would be more common for them. 分かんない sounds more soft to me, and 分からん is generally used only by male, I suppose.
I use both or わからない, わかりません, わからないです, etc. depending on the situation.

What about...
この仕事が出来るのではなかろうか
なかろう is derived from which word?

As Glenn-san explained, なかろう is from a conjugation of the classic adjective.

なくあらむ(the -ku form of the classic adjective なし + the classic pre-nai form of the classic verb あり + the classical auxiliary verb む which shows the speaker's guess) --> なからむ --> なからう --> なかろう
(similar change to "あらむ --> あろう" )

This conjugation form still remains in idiomatic usages; 当たらずといえども遠からず（当たっていないけど遠くもない）, 高かろうと安かろうと（高くても安くても）, よからぬことを企んでいる（よくないことを企んでいる）, or like that.

 

[jellofish]

詳しく説明してくれてありがとう、とりさん